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#1 | |
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In re: to the part I've bolded. A) If a cis woman comes on the site, IDs as queer, but is married to a cis-man, and has no interest in dating ANYONE (because she's happily partnered to her cismale partner)...do you have a problem with her being on the site? I ask, because I don't consider whom someone is attracted to as relevant to how they ID for themselves, and whether or not that attraction makes or breaks their queerdom. What about butches who date other butches and aren't into femmes at all? Can they still be here? Or are they also an issue. B) Does whomever One is attracted TO make or break their queer card? In other words, is One's queer identity dependent upon whomever they're interested in? Ergo, is one still queer if One dates, NO ONE? C) Do YOU believe het people can be queer? I'm Having A Hard Time Wording Exactly What I Want To Say, So I Lettered...Not Being Curt Or Terse, Dylan |
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#2 | |||||
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I was wondering if One's partner makes/breaks their queer card. More specifically if a man's queer card gets taken away if he's only interested in dating straight women. If anyone's queer card gets taken away if they date NO ONE. Or if a femme's queer card gets taken away if she only dates men. Is that problematic for you as well? Quote:
I'm not trying to be a pain in one's rear, and I see this as completely on topic...I guess Sam is the boss of that tho. I'm quite interested in having this conversation also (the one Sam presented), and I think breaking it down is a good way of understanding. And I swear, if the weather weren't so gross outside, I would immediately get offline and ask no more questions for the whole day. I really have to go do some stuff! I will get back later if I can, and I hope this is not derailing Sam's intent. And also, I hope it's not looking like the June and Dylan show here, my apologies if it does, and you know, Dylan and I can go get a room somewhere and hash this out. ![]() Maybe we should make sock puppets? Dylan |
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#3 |
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Its all good, its conversation in all variations.
Opinions are fascinating. |
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#4 |
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I do love it that y'all make me think about the why's of the ways I think.
For me, "queer" is about the attraction/behavior factor. I guess I see anything outside the norm as being queer so, yes, I know heterosexual people who are queer and I know gay people who are not queer. That's partially me slapping my own label on people and partially the label they choose for themselves. I think being butch/femme/trans is not, in and of itself queer as much as our attraction to others outside the "normal" spectrum of what is expected somehow queers us. I have many friends who are female ID'd lesbians attracted to other female ID'd lesbians. They do not ID as butch or femme. This is kind of the normal, expected version of lesbian relationships so I don't really see them as queer and most of them don't see themselves that way and many of them are horrified at the word. On the other hand, I know a ton of people who ID as heterosexual but have attractions to / interactions with people in very queer ways. I think, for me, "queer" is in many ways tied to kink so, based on my reference points, anything that may be seen as "kinky" to the outside world would be seen as "queer" to me. This would include not only people involved in specific BDSM activities but anything else that is viewed as outside the norm for those individuals. As to some of Dylan's questions, I know several women who are married to cismen and ID as heterosexual who hang out on b-f websites and a couple who hang out in b-f and/or primarily gay kink space in real time. The specific circumstances of their relationships are not my business but if this is where they feel comfortable and what they consider their community, I'm not one to tell them the don't "belong" based on their current relationship. For me, this would go back to the part about individual ID's not being based on who someone is partnered with. Personally, it would feel a little icky for someone who ID's as a heterosexual male, and does not see themselves as queer in any way, to be here for the purpose of meeting a potential partner (whether that's for a relationship, dating or sex.) I tried to think this out but I doubt I did a very good job of it really. So, I reserve the right to come back later and completely contradict myself if questioned! ![]() |
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#5 | |
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But then, I think I view *queer* in the same manner as you're expressing here. I (me,me,me) DO think het folks can be queer. I don't think *queer* is only for gays/lesbians/bisexuals. I mean, I know het people in the poly community who take a lot of flack from the straight world. I also know some het kinkers and some het swingers. Some of the ID as (het) queer and some don't. What I think is funny (not ha ha) is that *most* people are ok with allowing a cis het woman who's married come on and stuff, and wouldn't have *too* much of an issue with it, but people *would* have an issue with a het guy coming onto the site. I, me personally, am cool with anyone who IDs as queer or considers themselves *culturally* queer enough to not be an offensive asshole. I don't remember any cis, straight men ever being on the either site making an ass of himself...but I DO remember a couple cis, straight women being on the (old) site being over privileged assholes saying whatever they wanted. So, it's just interesting to me. Dylan |
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#6 |
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I'm sure there are a number of cis heterosexual ID's people of both genders on both/all sites. I don't know everyone and I really don't know those who are not active or vocal. There are a lot of lurkers.
Personally, and pardon the graphic nature, but I don't think it gets much queerer then a straight guy with a transman's fist up his ass. Queer is as queer does? Which then makes me wonder if I have a scale of queer. I think I do because I often rate things as being "more" or "less" queer the way I just did. That's a tangent that is way off topic, sorry. Just to clarify, as no offense was intended in my previous post and I was speaking about my own thoughts/feelings/judgements in an honest way from the gayla space. I have never, and will never, say that anyone "shouldn't" be here on this site, or any site, for any reason. That was kind of the point of my post. Your individual ID and reasons for wanting to be included in this community are really none of my business and I will never use them as some type of scale for determining who belongs and who doesn't. With the exception of the obvious trollers/spammers, I think everyone has right to be here if they want to be. That being said, it would feel "icky" to me mostly because I wouldn't really understand why someone who ID's as a non-queer, heterosexual male and is not interested in becoming involved with anyone other then non-queer ID'ing heterosexual women, would come to this site in search of a partner. That "icky"-ness would be based on my own history of interactions with straight guys who think lesbians are just for their entertainment or for "conquering". I do not have any issue with non-queer, heterosexual male ID'ing individuals being involved on the site, or in b-f/gay community in general if it's a place they feel comfortable and included and feel like they belong. I also have absolutely no issues at all (cannot state this emphatically enough without it sounding like one of those "my best friends are..." kind things) with transmen, FTM's, GQ, etc. individuals being on the site or in b-f space ever and I don't think I implied that in any way in my previous post. If that was how it came across or I somehow implied that without realizing it, please accept my apology and know that I will try much harder in the future not to say anything that may be read that way. |
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#7 | |
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It's just interesting to me that a cis, straight male is seen as 'more suspect' (?) than a cis, straight female. That's all I was saying. So, that part is just interesting to me. And you're definitely not the only person to express that. Fairly recently, Firie and I were having a conversation about a het-queer acquaintance of ours. He's part of the queer community because he's poly. He's extremely privileged in so many arenas (class, white, read as straight, male, able-bodied), and he says the stupidest shit. Firie asked me if I thought he should be 'allowed' on the site. I think he should be 'allowed' on the site. But I also know he'd be gone after his first or second post, because he'd say something incredibly stupid. But then, I have other friends who don't ID as queer, but who are more *culturally* queer than some queer people I know. But I would question ANYONE who ID'd as straight and had no tie to the queer community coming around voicing their opinions about shit. I mean, it's a queer website, and if you're not *affiliated*, I could really give a rip about your opinions...yanno what I'm sayin? Dylan |
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#8 | |
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I think many of us have been socialize towards the "straight guys are creepy in queer space" kinda thing. At the same time, I think we are much more tolerant of females in general no matter their ID, biology, or background. And yes, I totally own the sexism that is inherent in both of those statements. Recognizing it for what it is doesn't change the fact that it is. |
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#9 | |
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A cis het woman who is married may be questioning her sexuality and may be here to learn, to see if this is her community.. I used to be one of those, so to me her coming to question makes sense.. A cis het guy could not say the same thing in the same way... I would question a cis het guywho was questioning his sexuality joining a site where the predominate members are gay/queer woman (cis and trans) or guys who were born biologically female. I would think that he would visit male gay sites. I would have issues with a cis het guy coming in and demanding space here.. I mean, left freaking face it.. The world is their playground.. Our space is pretty precious to me...
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#10 | |
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You said, you'd read a cis married woman as 'questioning'. You also said it would be problematic to you if a there were a (straight) man on the site who was only into straight women Comments have been made all over both sites throughout the years Met said it in a thread not that long ago...can't remember the thread...maybe the expectations thread? I'll find it. Seriously, it's been said in the past. Additionally, whenever the idea of hets on the site comes up, it *usually* (and honestly, I can only remember one exception, right now and that was OBB saying married women are not lesbians) turns into a conversation about how the site will be 'invaded' by straight men being pigs. I don't know how One would poll it...I don't even know how to make a poll. Hell, I don't even know if my membership lets me make a poll. Too bad we couldn't do it now without unbiased answers based on this thread. Dylan |
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#11 | ||||
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#12 | |
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But why why why is it only assumed that very few femmes here would be interested? What about butches or transguys? Do they count? Or is it just about the assumption that femmes wouldn't be interested? Why is there NO assumption at all about what butches or transguys would be interested in? And again, why is it assumed a man would only be interested in femmes? Perhaps that man is interested in butches? I'm just curious about these repeated assumptions...in a queer community. Also, why is it more acceptable if say a cis woman were to come here *questioning* her sexuality, but it's not ok if a man is here questioning *his* sexuality? You said yourself if a cis woman married to a cis man were to come here, you're assumption would be (not that she IDs as queer, but) that she's 'questioning'. What if she made a few stupid comments while she were here *testing out the waters* or *questioning* her shit? Now, I'm seriously NOT condoning anyone making stupid comments, and I've seen some of the comments re: straight women. I'm not condoning that. I am saying that I don't think One's queer ID has necessarily something to do with whom One is interested in partnering with. I mean, frankly, I don't understand wanting to be on a queer site if you don't ID with the queer community. But again, I'm just really (truly) intrigued by some of the assumptions. Dylan...I feel like we're starting to talk in circles. |
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