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Old 11-28-2009, 08:29 PM   #1
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I can't really untangle this discussion from the one I have every day with my self about being a woman. I have yet to actually embrace the name "Femme" even though I'm all about embracing butches. This is the ONLY place I've felt free to express this thought. Actually, it's the only place I've felt safe enough to even articulate it to myself-- I have a hard time being "a" femme because I haven't been able to completely divorce it from the idea of butch. One seems to have to go with the other. It describes my sexual preference, but it doesn't describe ME. My whole struggle, regarding identity, has to do with coming to an awareness of and appreciation for who I am, as a whole being. As a woman. As a lesbian. To me, these are the most powerful names. A lot of times, on these sites, I maintain a bemused detachment. And, when I finally feel like I have something useful to add, I can't help but put apology after disclaimer after qualification. Lest I offend ANYONE else. But, fuck how I feel. It's like, "Ahem, excuse me. But, I have an opinion. Sorry if it offends anyone in the whole wide world. But, if you offend me, I understand because I give you your (story, religion, family upbringing, mental illness, addiction, abuse, culture, age, life stage, loss and grief....). I will understand, but you don't have to. So. Sorry if I offended anyone."

I reread an old post of mine on another site, replete with these apologies, just today and I wanted to vomit. In life, as well as on line, I still haven't found how to be as strong an advocate for myself as I am for everyone else.
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Old 11-28-2009, 08:42 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lynn View Post
I can't really untangle this discussion from the one I have every day with my self about being a woman. I have yet to actually embrace the name "Femme" even though I'm all about embracing butches. This is the ONLY place I've felt free to express this thought. Actually, it's the only place I've felt safe enough to even articulate it to myself-- I have a hard time being "a" femme because I haven't been able to completely divorce it from the idea of butch. One seems to have to go with the other. It describes my sexual preference, but it doesn't describe ME. My whole struggle, regarding identity, has to do with coming to an awareness of and appreciation for who I am, as a whole being. As a woman. As a lesbian. To me, these are the most powerful names. A lot of times, on these sites, I maintain a bemused detachment. And, when I finally feel like I have something useful to add, I can't help but put apology after disclaimer after qualification. Lest I offend ANYONE else. But, fuck how I feel. It's like, "Ahem, excuse me. But, I have an opinion. Sorry if it offends anyone in the whole wide world. But, if you offend me, I understand because I give you your (story, religion, family upbringing, mental illness, addiction, abuse, culture, age, life stage, loss and grief....). I will understand, but you don't have to. So. Sorry if I offended anyone."

I reread an old post of mine on another site, replete with these apologies, just today and I wanted to vomit. In life, as well as on line, I still haven't found how to be as strong an advocate for myself as I am for everyone else.

I believe it took a lot of courage to say what you just said here. No need to vomit. You have learned from your own history and that is something to be embraced, yes? <smile>

I believe, too, that you ARE finding your own power.....just by posting this evolving moment. I admire you.
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:06 PM   #3
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Originally Posted by Diva View Post
I believe it took a lot of courage to say what you just said here. No need to vomit. You have learned from your own history and that is something to be embraced, yes? <smile>

I believe, too, that you ARE finding your own power.....just by posting this evolving moment. I admire you.
Thank you, kind, sweet Diva. xo

Courage is a funny thing to me. I have done some things that have been considered courageous. (As all of us have, right?) But, everything I've done that seems courageous, including writing the above post, is just an expression of something or another that had to be said or done. There is a point when it is more difficult and more painful to hold something back than to just say the truth. Every time I have one of these moments, when I have to tell the truth, I feel bigger and stronger. I feel more of the woman that I am. My affinity for other women also raises. It hasn't been difficult for me to accept the wide range of self-expression I've encountered on these sites. The more I accept myself, the more comfortable I am with the whole range of expression of others'.

Lynn
(resisting the kneejerk urge to apologize for posting twice...what the fuck is that?)
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Yet it is only love
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Old 11-28-2009, 09:09 PM   #4
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My favorite Queer As Folk quote? Brian Kinney - No regrets, no apologies, no excuses. Fabulous outlook!
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:01 AM   #5
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I've said this before in other threads, but since y'all don't thread stalk me like you should, I'll say it again.

Our identity as femmes is frequently linked to our masculine counterpart. But butches are never burdened with this. Their standing in a community is never identified by their female counterpart. For example, if we are dating someone who is female-identified, we are expected to eschew the trans community. If we are dating a transperson, we suddenly must shun female-identified butches. And, heaven forbid, if we date another femme, we must simply pack up, turn in our femme card, and leave the Mother Ship.

Sometimes, it feels as though we are hauled off by our hair to join the "their" caveman clan.
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Old 11-29-2009, 09:22 AM   #6
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Originally Posted by blush View Post
I've said this before in other threads, but since y'all don't thread stalk me like you should, I'll say it again.

Our identity as femmes is frequently linked to our masculine counterpart. But butches are never burdened with this. Their standing in a community is never identified by their female counterpart. For example, if we are dating someone who is female-identified, we are expected to eschew the trans community. If we are dating a transperson, we suddenly must shun female-identified butches. And, heaven forbid, if we date another femme, we must simply pack up, turn in our femme card, and leave the Mother Ship.

Sometimes, it feels as though we are hauled off by our hair to join the "their" caveman clan.
yes! and this reminds me to share further: i don't subscribe to the belief that one can be a transensual femme or stonefemme--or any other kind of *femme* that is dependent on who you date or how you don't touch your partner's sexbits.

thanks, blush!
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:14 AM   #7
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This is my quote for the day.

And I may steal it and use it and never give you credit.

I was seriously considering making it my signature line.


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Originally Posted by blush View Post
I've said this before in other threads, but since y'all don't thread stalk me like you should, I'll say it again.

Our identity as femmes is frequently linked to our masculine counterpart. But butches are never burdened with this. Their standing in a community is never identified by their female counterpart. For example, if we are dating someone who is female-identified, we are expected to eschew the trans community. If we are dating a transperson, we suddenly must shun female-identified butches. And, heaven forbid, if we date another femme, we must simply pack up, turn in our femme card, and leave the Mother Ship.

Sometimes, it feels as though we are hauled off by our hair to join the "their" caveman clan.
Commence thread stalking.

I'm glad you spoke to this aspect of "standing in a community." I've seen a bit of this in the realz. A femme attends local butch/femme meetings, begins to date another femme, or a male (of any variety) and suddenly other folks start to question her presence in the community. As if who she is bangin' has anything to do with her sense of community belonging, or deep affiliation.

What? We can only check one box now?


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Originally Posted by apretty View Post
yes! and this reminds me to share further: i don't subscribe to the belief that one can be a transensual femme or stonefemme--or any other kind of *femme* that is dependent on who you date or how you don't touch your partner's sexbits.

thanks, blush!
Sexbits.

I blush.
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Old 11-29-2009, 10:15 AM   #8
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Default There's no place like home....

Oh man, (oops)

I have been reading the posts and loving the energy, words hadn't quite come to the tips of my fingertips. But, the thread has obviously entered my subconscious.

I just remembered I dreamt last night that I was dressed as a babygirl at the Michigan Women's Music Festival.

That must be the weirdest fucking convergence of femme, feminist, girl, female subtex.

There were other babygirls here and there at the Fest as well. At one point someone was trying to ask me if I needed help getting out of there, as I obviously didn't belong (to her). I looked at her coldly, and said, "No." You see, I was dressed as a babygirl, but certainly wasn't feeling one inside, and certainly had no butch lookin after me. I was kind of a babygirl ethnographer on a mission. Observing how the festies reacted to me and the other babygirls.

I had the cutest little gingham outfit.

Anyhow, a tad about me, just to add to the diverse-titty of us. I came out as a lesbian-feminist in 1979 in one of the many super-insulated, almost separatist, lesbian-feminist communities around the country at the time. Three years later I discovered the word femme, and knew it was who I was. I found this word in the middle of a worldwide protest movement against long range nuclear missiles, when I was sleeping many nights in a lesbo-constructed protest structure on the grounds of a corporation that built the guidance systems for these missiles. I knew femme was me because I did things like: 1) painted my bedroom in the lesbo collective houseshold pink 2) decorated said room with my babydolls from my childhood 3) wore a collection of thrift store dresses, and skirts against my hairy legs amidst the jeans and political t-shirts 4) threw tea parties and garden parties for the grumpy lesbian masses.

Anyhow, all of this was tolerated by the androgynous masses, probably because I did it in a butchless, asexual vacuum. The femme who I am has always been just that, who I am.

I think my biggest struggle with inclusion/feeling sidelined on these sites has been the anti-lesbian sentiment which is sometimes subtle and sometimes oh-so-very Overt.

And, being on these sites has been an opportunity to enrich myself and my femmeness in so many ways. To be friends with girls/women/femmes who wear makeup and high heels has been profoundly moving and affirming. You all have always scared the shit outta me!!!!
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Old 11-29-2009, 11:16 AM   #9
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Originally Posted by blush View Post
I've said this before in other threads, but since y'all don't thread stalk me like you should, I'll say it again.

Our identity as femmes is frequently linked to our masculine counterpart. But butches are never burdened with this. Their standing in a community is never identified by their female counterpart. For example, if we are dating someone who is female-identified, we are expected to eschew the trans community. If we are dating a transperson, we suddenly must shun female-identified butches. And, heaven forbid, if we date another femme, we must simply pack up, turn in our femme card, and leave the Mother Ship.

Sometimes, it feels as though we are hauled off by our hair to join the "their" caveman clan.
We are both subsumed and erased in turns.

This in itself is the crux of the reason behind my decision to write this letter to all of you. I wrote something once about how I do not see myself as "invisible." I am not an invisible femme. Whether or not I am seen is merely a determination as to the clarity in the eyesight of others.

I intend, only, to stand tall enough so as not to be missed should they endeavor to look.

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Originally Posted by apretty View Post
yes! and this reminds me to share further: i don't subscribe to the belief that one can be a transensual femme or stonefemme--or any other kind of *femme* that is dependent on who you date or how you don't touch your partner's sexbits.

thanks, blush!
I hope more ladypeople come in here and read this!
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Old 11-29-2009, 05:28 PM   #10
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I've changed over the past 10 or so years I've identified as Femme. I used to believe it was all about my power and in hindsight my power looked more like King Kong stomping on legitimate thoughts, opinions and questions of those that may have differed from mine. My power was to 'squash' not only the opinion, but to take a deeper stance and make a stronger impact on the person to ensure they didn't continue to hold opinions that aligned with the ones they shared.
While I haven't seen this in your posts, TPT--maybe because you were already changing by the time we started interacting?--I have experienced it from others. I call it "gatekeeping" behavior. People have beliefs that are vitally important to them--usually they involve "Truth" in some manifestation--and they seem to feel driven to keep others from expressing anything different.

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For me, my Femme strength is about focusing on how to get to what I truly want and believe in without hurting people or countering opinions along the way.
I like this. It's pretty much how I try to handle things as well; I will speak about my opinions, I will stand up for people who seem to need it, but I don't need to argue nor do I need to "defeat" anyone. Other people's opinions cannot change the truth of my life, of my being.... and I do not have the right to try to change the truth of their lives, no matter how wrong I think they might be. It was a hard path learning these lessons. Thank you for a chance to reflect on them again.

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I never felt more invisible or silenced than I felt around my father, whose favorite word for me was "Shhhh!". That's probably a whole 'nother' thread.....

And then I never felt more liberated than (1) when I came out (after 15 years of marriage to the father of my beautiful daughters) and (2) when my father died. (I know that sounds horrible.)
I don't think it's horrible and I don't think it's a whole nuther thread, either.... I think it speaks to deep lifelong conditioning as a female, which certainly impacts anyone as a Femme, especially as she tries to find her voice in adulthood. I had the same kind of conditioning from my mother... she didn't have to die for me to break at least partially free, but I DID have to invoke the Geographical Cure and move halfway across the country, yanno?

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[Joke stereotype threads] This is problematic for me, and I've talked about this before: I think sometimes these online Forums, or communities, if you will are the first step in figuring out who/what you are and what your Primary Desires might be, so it's irksome (Really pisses me off) to think that a questioning Femme might stumble across one of those threads and feel intimidated because they in fact don't leave the house in stiletto's and a full face of Mac everyday and in fact, they DO know how to build/maintain/create shit.
I was one of those newbies, but I do have to say that it was the SERIOUS threads which did me more damage than the joke threads, even though both played a role. I'm really glad that the serious "how to be a Femme" threads have all long since fallen by the wayside.

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In June's dream world, which is very different from the Barbie variety, what they will find is a full spectrum of Femme-ness (c) that includes all of us regardless of our skill level or presentation. I want to say to them "Hey, Baby Femme! Wear that damn baseball hat backwards if you want! Don't be afraid to change that tire and brag about it! Fix that friggin' sink! Win at Pool because you've got the Mad Skillz!"

And finally: "Even if you don't have a Butch or Transman to hang on your every word, you're still a Femme. You don't have to wait for anyone to validate who you are."
I. Love. Your. Dream. World.

Amazingly enough, mine looks just like it!

I have to go offline--a friend just called to say she's bringing over a piece of furniture she doesn't need anymore!! Wooohooo! Storage!--so I'll talk to y'all later.
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