Gay Marriage until...a break up. Why Gays need to walk the walk.

Puplove · 07-27-2010, 06:58 PM

I agree that we should have the same responsibilities of a legally binding contract if we have the same rights, and public perception that someone fighting for gay marriage can turn around and say "never mind, that wasn't real" hurts us all. (That may not be the real situation with M.E., but it's a good thinking point.)

Even in a painful breakup, I believe that decent people won't manipulate loopholes and the non-legal situation to get out of doing what's right in divvying up possessions, child custody, etc. (although it can take time to get past the initial hurt and knee jerk anger to get to that point). Non-decent people will find a way to screw over the person they had promised to love and cherish, even if they have to pay more to do it legally.

I feel, straight or queer: if you don't want to fully commit and be willing to embrace ALL responsibilities, then don't call it a marriage (whether or not there's legal paper involved). Then, you leave yourself an out and can easily walk away when it's over.

Here is where I think the higher standard idea comes in:
The contrast between fighting to have queer relationships recognized as "just as real" as heterosexual marriages, then seeing couples walk away from each other when things get tough, because...well, there's no legally binding document requiring a negotiated contract dissolution. Straight people do it too - all the time. But, no one has to work to validate straight relationships, so they can crap all over their privileges without affecting an entire community.

It sucks, but it's there. As SF said, this is where it comes in that gays need to walk the walk.

Point to ponder: When straight people run into an old friend they haven't seen for a couple years and they catch up on mutual friends, it's rare that you hear them ask about married couples "Are John and Phyllis still together? Wow, that's great they are!!"

When queers run into old friends and they catch up, the standard questions are "Are Adam and Steve still together?" and it's a surprise when they are. How many times have you and your friends asked "are they still together" when catching up on long-term queer couple friends. Who even realizes the root of that question?

Many factors way too big to talk about (history, culture, bias, etc etc etc) have taught us to believe that long-term queer relationships are the exception, not the norm. Although more than 50% of straight marriages end in divorce, we - the "all of society" we - do not believe that long-term straight relationships are the exception.

SuperFemme · 07-27-2010, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puplove

I agree that we should have the same responsibilities of a legally binding contract if we have the same rights, and public perception that someone fighting for gay marriage can turn around and say "never mind, that wasn't real" hurts us all. (That may not be the real situation with M.E., but it's a good thinking point.)

Even in a painful breakup, I believe that decent people won't manipulate loopholes and the non-legal situation to get out of doing what's right in divvying up possessions, child custody, etc. (although it can take time to get past the initial hurt and knee jerk anger to get to that point). Non-decent people will find a way to screw over the person they had promised to love and cherish, even if they have to pay more to do it legally.

I feel, straight or queer: if you don't want to fully commit and be willing to embrace ALL responsibilities, then don't call it a marriage (whether or not there's legal paper involved). Then, you leave yourself an out and can easily walk away when it's over.

Here is where I think the higher standard idea comes in:
The contrast between fighting to have queer relationships recognized as "just as real" as heterosexual marriages, then seeing couples walk away from each other when things get tough, because...well, there's no legally binding document requiring a negotiated contract dissolution. Straight people do it too - all the time. But, no one has to work to validate straight relationships, so they can crap all over their privileges without affecting an entire community.

It sucks, but it's there. As SF said, this is where it comes in that gays need to walk the walk.

Point to ponder: When straight people run into an old friend they haven't seen for a couple years and they catch up on mutual friends, it's rare that you hear them ask about married couples "Are John and Phyllis still together? Wow, that's great they are!!"

When queers run into old friends and they catch up, the standard questions are "Are Adam and Steve still together?" and it's a surprise when they are. How many times have you and your friends asked "are they still together" when catching up on long-term queer couple friends. Who even realizes the root of that question?

Many factors way too big to talk about (history, culture, bias, etc etc etc) have taught us to believe that long-term queer relationships are the exception, not the norm. Although more than 50% of straight marriages end in divorce, we - the "all of society" we - do not believe that long-term straight relationships are the exception.

Thank you for so eloquently saying what I've been trying to say.

You bring up a fascinating point with the "is so-n-so still together" question. I remember clear as day being at a function last year and someone came up to say hello that I hadn't seen in a while. They asked if I was still seeing Cal and I swear to God they almost spit their drink out when I said yes. It was weird to me, that the follow up comment was something along the lines of how lucky I was, and how so many of "us" don't stay together.

You're absolutely right about there being tons of reasons for that, and one of those reasons is that a lot of people think we are just perverts, and that being gay is solely about sex.

That is why it is so important that we are visible as your everyday average folks next door...not a blurb on the five o'clock news from a pride parade.

Puplove · 07-27-2010, 07:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Thank you for so eloquently saying what I've been trying to say.

You bring up a fascinating point with the "is so-n-so still together" question. I remember clear as day being at a function last year and someone came up to say hello that I hadn't seen in a while. They asked if I was still seeing Cal and I swear to God they almost spit their drink out when I said yes. It was weird to me, that the follow up comment was something along the lines of how lucky I was, and how so many of "us" don't stay together.

You're absolutely right about there being tons of reasons for that, and one of those reasons is that a lot of people think we are just perverts, and that being gay is solely about sex.

That is why it is so important that we are visible as your everyday average folks next door...not a blurb on the five o'clock news from a pride parade.

You said it! And in a super way. Thanks for starting thoughtful discussion on a really important topic.

MsTinkerbelly · 07-27-2010, 07:46 PM

So many here have said it better than I can...but I will put in my 2 cents.

I (like Superfemme and Plato) was married during California's Summer of love. I too rejoice in my marriage, and am saddened for our friends who cannot enjoy the same right.

I was married for 12 years to my daughter's Father, and I struggled with ending our marriage because I feel that marriage is for life. I did not marry my Kasey until 6 years after we began our relationship, because I was not ready to ever make that kind of promise again, and I especially thought my Kasey was not my forever person.

Through my struggles in finding myself, my Kasey was there. She is my rock, my heart, and my home. Only when I found me, was I able to see the person who felt the same way I did about forever. For better or worse, for richer or poorer....words worth fighting for everyone to have.

Divorce although not an option for us, should be handled with the same maturity and promise that you made to love and honor that person. Life happens, love happens, and yes sometimes divorce happens. Straight or Gay, there is no difference to the responcibilties we have taken on, and we should honor even the end with dignity.

Soft*Silver · 07-27-2010, 08:12 PM

I agree with At Last Home, there should be a prenuptual with every marraige. I kid with whoever I date seriously, that I am building a "contract" that will need to be initialized, notarized and signed before I move in or we commit further. I might be kidding, but I also tell them I am serious...that we need to work out factors before we take a larger step. Here is a huge factor: I have one daughter who is 26. If she EVER needs to move in with me/us, she can. Period. Even if it means with husband and kids. PERIOD. Some people might not like that. So if they dont like it, I dont want to wait until this becomes important, to find out we are at odds with one another.

And some folks might say there are too many factors to consider. Not so. Factor: My kid comes first and I am always there for her...period. Ex: if she ever needs to stay with me, she can. Period.

And some say this takes the romance out of marraige. Jeez...so does divorce! I would rather know before hand that there are "deal breakers" before I commit. And you can gloss up the "before" marriage with all the romance you want. Bottom line is, if you are going to commit forever, the candles are gonna burn down eventually and you better be sure you can hold onto that person when the lights go out...

SuperFemme · 07-27-2010, 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

So many here have said it better than I can...but I will put in my 2 cents.

I (like Superfemme and Plato) was married during California's Summer of love. I too rejoice in my marriage, and am saddened for our friends who cannot enjoy the same right.

I was married for 12 years to my daughter's Father, and I struggled with ending our marriage because I feel that marriage is for life. I did not marry my Kasey until 6 years after we began our relationship, because I was not ready to ever make that kind of promise again, and I especially thought my Kasey was not my forever person.

Through my struggles in finding myself, my Kasey was there. She is my rock, my heart, and my home. Only when I found me, was I able to see the person who felt the same way I did about forever. For better or worse, for richer or poorer....words worth fighting for everyone to have.

Divorce although not an option for us, should be handled with the same maturity and promise that you made to love and honor that person. Life happens, love happens, and yes sometimes divorce happens. Straight or Gay, there is no difference to the responcibilties we have taken on, and we should honor even the end with dignity.

Amen to that!

07-27-2010, 06:58 PM	#1
Puplove Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She Relationship Status: Single Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Austin TX Posts: 904 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 879 Thanked 3,215 Times in 705 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	I agree that we should have the same responsibilities of a legally binding contract if we have the same rights, and public perception that someone fighting for gay marriage can turn around and say "never mind, that wasn't real" hurts us all. (That may not be the real situation with M.E., but it's a good thinking point.) Even in a painful breakup, I believe that decent people won't manipulate loopholes and the non-legal situation to get out of doing what's right in divvying up possessions, child custody, etc. (although it can take time to get past the initial hurt and knee jerk anger to get to that point). Non-decent people will find a way to screw over the person they had promised to love and cherish, even if they have to pay more to do it legally. I feel, straight or queer: if you don't want to fully commit and be willing to embrace ALL responsibilities, then don't call it a marriage (whether or not there's legal paper involved). Then, you leave yourself an out and can easily walk away when it's over. Here is where I think the higher standard idea comes in: The contrast between fighting to have queer relationships recognized as "just as real" as heterosexual marriages, then seeing couples walk away from each other when things get tough, because...well, there's no legally binding document requiring a negotiated contract dissolution. Straight people do it too - all the time. But, no one has to work to validate straight relationships, so they can crap all over their privileges without affecting an entire community. It sucks, but it's there. As SF said, this is where it comes in that gays need to walk the walk. Point to ponder: When straight people run into an old friend they haven't seen for a couple years and they catch up on mutual friends, it's rare that you hear them ask about married couples "Are John and Phyllis still together? Wow, that's great they are!!" When queers run into old friends and they catch up, the standard questions are "Are Adam and Steve still together?" and it's a surprise when they are. How many times have you and your friends asked "are they still together" when catching up on long-term queer couple friends. Who even realizes the root of that question? Many factors way too big to talk about (history, culture, bias, etc etc etc) have taught us to believe that long-term queer relationships are the exception, not the norm. Although more than 50% of straight marriages end in divorce, we - the "all of society" we - do not believe that long-term straight relationships are the exception. __________________ Alice laughed: "There's no use trying," she said; "one can't believe impossible things." "I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "...Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

07-27-2010, 08:12 PM	#5
SoftSilver Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: femme Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Married Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: rose cottage Posts: 5,592 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 8,948 Thanked 15,908 Times in 4,062 Posts Rep Power*: 21474857	I agree with At Last Home, there should be a prenuptual with every marraige. I kid with whoever I date seriously, that I am building a "contract" that will need to be initialized, notarized and signed before I move in or we commit further. I might be kidding, but I also tell them I am serious...that we need to work out factors before we take a larger step. Here is a huge factor: I have one daughter who is 26. If she EVER needs to move in with me/us, she can. Period. Even if it means with husband and kids. PERIOD. Some people might not like that. So if they dont like it, I dont want to wait until this becomes important, to find out we are at odds with one another. And some folks might say there are too many factors to consider. Not so. Factor: My kid comes first and I am always there for her...period. Ex: if she ever needs to stay with me, she can. Period. And some say this takes the romance out of marraige. Jeez...so does divorce! I would rather know before hand that there are "deal breakers" before I commit. And you can gloss up the "before" marriage with all the romance you want. Bottom line is, if you are going to commit forever, the candles are gonna burn down eventually and you better be sure you can hold onto that person when the lights go out... __________________ Pole bachit, a lis chuye. The field sees, the forest hears

07-27-2010, 07:46 PM	#4
MsTinkerbelly Timed Out - TOS Drama How Do You Identify?: ... Preferred Pronoun?: ... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ... Posts: 6,573 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,737 Thanked 22,908 Times in 5,019 Posts Rep Power: 0	So many here have said it better than I can...but I will put in my 2 cents. I (like Superfemme and Plato) was married during California's Summer of love. I too rejoice in my marriage, and am saddened for our friends who cannot enjoy the same right. I was married for 12 years to my daughter's Father, and I struggled with ending our marriage because I feel that marriage is for life. I did not marry my Kasey until 6 years after we began our relationship, because I was not ready to ever make that kind of promise again, and I especially thought my Kasey was not my forever person. Through my struggles in finding myself, my Kasey was there. She is my rock, my heart, and my home. Only when I found me, was I able to see the person who felt the same way I did about forever. For better or worse, for richer or poorer....words worth fighting for everyone to have. Divorce although not an option for us, should be handled with the same maturity and promise that you made to love and honor that person. Life happens, love happens, and yes sometimes divorce happens. Straight or Gay, there is no difference to the responcibilties we have taken on, and we should honor even the end with dignity.