Olivia Cruisers? Carribean Sun Cruise October 30th - Page 5

Laerkin · 09-07-2010, 03:10 PM

I'm a little late getting to this thread, so I apologize if this is repetitive.

I'd like to start by reiterating what was said in previous posts. This is certainly not in any way a comment or attack on the OP.

First, on nycfembbw's post from Olivia GuestServices:

Quote:

Originally Posted by nycfembbw

From:
"Olivia GuestServices" <GUESTSERVICES@OLIVIA.COM>
Add sender to Contacts

Hello -
...

I know this is discouraging, but it is important for you to understand because it disrupts the Olivia experience we work hard to provide for our guests.

Um, my initial response was "f*** you, Customer Service Jackass". This is completely ridiculous. So if their primary customer base were to suddenly feel "disrupted" by people of color or people with handicaps, would they discourage such customers as well? This answer is so offensive I feel sick.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy

I have got to the point in My life that , if I or My butch brothers are not welcome somewhere , fuck em ! I will take My money and My brothers and go else where ! And if these idiots thought about what they where missing out on, they would see they could be making alot more money and meet some awesome folks that they choose to not associate with ...

I'm with you, Billy. I may not be trans or butch, but people that I care about are so Olivia can keep their cruises and we will have way more fun with our INCLUSIVE community elsewhere.

I am more sickened by discrimination within our community than anything. These people KNOW what it's like to suffer fewer rights, ignorance, law's that attempt to make us 2nd class and yet they turn around and behave this way towards another group within our LGBT community?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jackhammer

Today’s cruise ships carry on average between 3,000 and 7,000 people including the crew. A moderately sized ship on a week’s voyage can generate more than 200,000 gallons of human sewage – enough to fill 10 backyard swimming pools – a million gallons of gray water, 25,000 gallons of oily bilge water, more than 100 gallons of hazardous waste, and eight tons of solid waste, including ground up food waste. And almost all of it gets discharged into the environment either straight into the ocean or incinerated onboard and the ashes thrown overboard with a small amount hauled on shore.

So what they don't dump, they burn while folks are enjoying their cruise.

Jackhammer, thank you for this information. I've never been on a cruise (more the adventure and off-the-beaten path traveler), but I've considered it a few times with friends.

After reading this, I can say I will now never experience a cruise in this lifetime unless some major improvements are made to how these environmental hazards are handled. I'm disgusted in an entirely new way, now.

And I'm passing this along to my friends and family that do enjoy cruises. If they choose to vacation that way, I want to ensure they're informed about their choices.

Ugh!

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gayla

What people are saying is that we each have an individual choice as to whether we support Olivia by attending their events and giving them our money.

Right now, where I'm at in my life today, I can't imagine spending any amount of time on a boat full of 3,000 lesbians. That's not some place that I would be comfortable. It doesn't sound like fun. Throw me on a boat full of 3,000 gay men, I'd probably have much more fun.

Olivia has the "right" to do whatever they want in the way they structure their business and who they choose to cater to in the same way that I get to decide who I support monetarily. In the past, I did support Olivia and give them quite a bit of my money. That was back when they were a women's music company and not a cruise line.

There seems to be some type of underlying insinuation that we should all support Olivia because they are a woman-owned / lesbian-owned business and that we are somehow "bad lesbians" or anti-lesbian or lesbiphobic if we don't.

I personally am not insinuating anything. I have a genuine question.

The_Lady_Snow · 09-07-2010, 03:16 PM

I don't get it why every fucking time someone or we as a community try to speak of trans issues or transphobia it turns into this.

Why does it seem as soon as to much trans talk happens this whole fear runs amock in whatever thread that lesbians are being attacked..

I have asked several damn times where the hell is all the divisive, phobic statements against lesbians and ism's being said.

Cause god damn it, some of us have some trans folks in our lives who get tired of every time a discussion happens the accusations of lesbians not wanted arises..

Ridiculous.

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 03:18 PM

Snow if you are referring to my post I said what my position on including transwomen was and didn't accuse anyone of anything.

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chefhmboyrd

i personally have no interest in a lesbian cruise, whether or not i was "allowed" to go on the boat, there would undoubtably be haters present.

I think there are haters present in any group.

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Damn bully, I don't think this is really about Olivia not wanting men on their cruise, I get that.

I happen to be with someone who is a guy, so does that mean I get my women's space privileges taken away?

Another thing, let's be honest the reason so many people came on here with their concerns and posts about Olivia cause in another place and time SOMEONE was trying to hoodwink all of us by saying one thing, some people called and got a different story, then SOMEONE came in wagged their finger and stomped their feet and called people names.

THEN what pissed people off more was more evidence was given, and then ALL the Queens Horses and ALL the Queens Gals came in and not only wagged their finger and used academic language to basically say.

Hey mother fucker you don't pay to post here so shut the fuck up.

That's why we all have a sensitive spot when it comes to Olivia and it spilled over here..

I know on my end of the world none of the people in my pack want to participate with Olivia due to well it's women's space and well we all tend to stick together and will not go where trans follk are not welcome.

That's how we roll though.

No one is wanting to take over Olivia's women's space what we have here is a lot of people saying how they feel, some of us with some hurt feelings over it.

Unfortunately it happened in a thread MS started asking us if we are all going.

True story

Thanks Snow. I have been reading this thread for days and still am trying to understand. I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am supportive of women's space and maybe that is where the difference in opinion lies. As I said earlier I do absolutely think transwomen should be included and if they are not that is transphobic and wrong.

Edit: I am not familiar with the prior incident.

The_Lady_Snow · 09-07-2010, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

Thanks Snow. I have been reading this thread for days and still am trying to understand. I am not accusing anyone of anything. I am supportive of women's space and maybe that is where the difference in opinion lies. As I said earlier I do absolutely think transwomen should be included and if they are not that is transphobic and wrong.

I don't get how you don't understand...

The Original Gender Spectrum tried to hood wink its community with a get together where it is WOMENS SPACE, this is where all the sensitivity is from.

Unfortunately we all took a shit, on MS thread because we all brought our hurt feelings and frustrations and voiced them out in type.

I am gonna be honest here so bare with me.

Once again because some people, who btw are women who do not agree with the bullshit and lies posted.

Then it somehow translated into anti lesbian craziness.

It happens A LOT if trans issues are discussed by the same group of peeps.

It's a tiring pattern.

No one wants Olivia to open up their gates to men. *I* don't think any woman's space should have to

But don't be a liar and say you got a buddy in the system that is gonna make it all better cause well it's not true.

This is what this spill over is from.

True story

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I don't get how you don't understand...

The Original Gender Spectrum tried to hood wink its community with a get together where it is WOMENS SPACE, this is where all the sensitivity is from.

Unfortunately we all took a shit, on MS thread because we all brought our hurt feelings and frustrations and voiced them out in type.

I am gonna be honest here so bare with me.

Once again because some people, who btw are women who do not agree with the bullshit and lies posted.

Then it somehow translated into anti lesbian craziness.

It happens A LOT if trans issues are discussed by the same group of peeps.

It's a tiring pattern.

No one wants Olivia to open up their gates to men. *I* don't think any woman's space should have to

But don't be a liar and say you got a buddy in the system that is gonna make it all better cause well it's not true.

This is what this spill over is from.

True story

Don't be a liar? I'm not lying about anything.

As to the other stuff if you are referring to the cruise set up by another website owner I think the whole thing is bullshit, but I haven't followed the story. I am still on the email list just because it's quite amazing to see just how many ways one person can attempt to make money off of her so-called "community."

Corkey · 09-07-2010, 03:43 PM

Jebus Bully no one is calling you the liar, please re read and you will see who is being referenced.

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 03:46 PM

OK, ok sorry Snow. I see what the liar part is referring to now. Olivia Cruise is not appropriate for holding a butch femme event. I agree. That was the first thing I said.

I really thought people were saying it was wrong to have vacations geared towards lesbians, but if that is not the case then I think I am clear on things. And yeah, I haven't been following the other story but I can see where it would make things raw.

Thank you.

Gemme · 09-07-2010, 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticOceansFL

It's not that I have money to burn but I'm not going to make my choices of where I want to enjoy my vacation do to someone not being able to go on the Olivia Cruise If you have a problem or a situation with the cruise line then choose and pick another one and friendships shouldn't be based on what or where someone goes anyways! I get the impression that most of people are trying to "play" the you pick them we"ll not be friends with you, because of your choices" and that tells me that you never really were friends to begin with now was ya?

Infinite and Snow did an awesome job answering you but I'll throw my .02 out there too.

We're on a site that is for adults only. Sure, there's the occasional reversion back to childhood moments of retaliation and sulking and tattling, etc...but, for the most part, we're adults here and act accordingly.

The connection I think you are seeing is not so much as "if you don't, I won't" but the recoil from seeing loved ones being blatantly rejected though they are a part of the same community that is promoted by the cruise line.

There was a comment to you made a bit ago (I've forgotten by whom) about what may happen when you show up at the dock. I don't know you personally and you've not posted any pics of yourself in the gallery, so I have no idea what you look like. That comment was addressing the possibility of you presenting quite masculine in appearance. If that's the case, yo may have problems with your cruise. If you present more adrogynous, from the stories posted, I'd say you have a higher likelihood of enjoying your vacation thoroughly.

If you do partake of an Olivia cruise in the future, I hope you have a wonderful time. I've cruised, though not with Olivia, and I enjoyed it immensely.

naturlover_52 · 09-07-2010, 04:17 PM

[QUOTE=gayla;187445]What people are saying is that we each have an individual choice as to whether we support Olivia by attending their events and giving them our money.
Right now, where I'm at in my life today, I can't imagine spending any amount of time on a boat full of 3,000 lesbians. That's not some place that I would be comfortable. It doesn't sound like fun. Throw me on a boat full of 3,000 gay men, I'd probably have much more fun.

I would have to Agree w/ Gayla...About NOT wanting to be on a boat w/ 3,000 lesbians....BUT for me I just am NOT a cruise type person....lesbian OR Straight. I lived in Alaska for 7 years in Fairbanks and saw the people being carted around like Cattle....I would have to agree w/ the rest of those that have posted about Olivia being Unaccommodating to ALL of the Community.

I am NOT a follower SOOO I don't go by what MY friends are doing or as support.....I do it because of the fact that like ANOTHER member stated....I don't support ANY kind of ISM....BE it be Sexuality based, gender based or race based.

and as to what Snow said....Then it somehow translated into anti lesbian craziness.
It happens A LOT if trans issues are discussed by the same group of peeps.

ONLY one person wanted this thread moved because of the fact that is was ANTIlesbian...and ADMIN spoke to her.

I have been following this post ALL the way along...I agree that Olivia is a business and HAS their right to do business how they want....I would rather GO to Alaska Via Ferry w/ friends gay, straight, trans...JUST because there is MORE freedom to DO what U want....travel where U want....and NOT have to follow the rules of a COMPANY. If I was gonna drop money like this ON a vacation it would be to go to like Hawaii to the BIG island...and maybe go to a GENERAL Gay....area....by gay....I mean the Community as a whole.

Thanks

Billy · 09-07-2010, 04:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MysticOceansFL

It's not that I have money to burn but I'm not going to make my choices of where I want to enjoy my vacation do to someone not being able to go on the Olivia Cruise If you have a problem or a situation with the cruise line then choose and pick another one and friendships shouldn't be based on what or where someone goes anyways! I get the impression that most of people are trying to "play" the you pick them we"ll not be friends with you, because of your choices" and that tells me that you never really were friends to begin with now was ya?

We are not talking about ANOTHER cruise line here .....We all have that option ..The point I was trying to make is YOU and I are not welcome on this ship ....Why would you go and make reservations on a ship you are not welcome on and take the chance of NOT getting your money back or even making it off the dock because you don't want to be a follwer ..This has nothing to do with being a follower ..The facts have been posted here very clearly ...If Me and My butch and trans brothers are not WELCOME period , I am not going ...Has NOTHING to do with I won't be your friend if this person goes or that person goes ...I'm starting to wonder if we are reading the same thread

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 04:45 PM

I did find the other convo on the other channel. I do agree with the concerns raised and also the points of making sure everyone would be welcomed and comfortable while at the same time respecting women's space. Interesting how people were treated for raising genuine concerns. Hmmm

I don't think women's only or lesbian space is exclusionary unless there are some women or lesbians (for example transwomen) who are not welcome. I don't feel businesses set up to cater to gay men are exclusionary. I do not feel excluded when trans events for trans people are organized.

Billy · 09-07-2010, 04:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BullDog

I did find the other convo on the other channel. I do agree with the concerns raised and also the points of making sure everyone would be welcomed and comfortable while at the same time respecting women's space. Interesting how people were treated for raising genuine concerns. Hmmm

I don't think women's only or lesbian space is exclusionary unless there are some women or lesbians (for example transwomen) who are not welcome. I don't feel businesses set up to cater to gay men are exclusionary. I do not feel excluded when trans events for trans people are organized.

Hey I am all for a Lesbian cruise Have no problem with it ...But not all lesbians are femme and it seemed to leave out the folks that are more masculine and it should not matter what you look like , if you ID as Lesbian then all Lesbian should be welcome ..

UofMfan · 09-07-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Organicbutch

Well the point is that the Olivia lesboat was discriminating against transfolks, not that it was wrong to have gay/lesbian only vacations.

MODERATING:

OrganicButch, I am going to ask you to refrain from using terms that are offensive, derisive and inflammatory when posting on this site. There are other ways of getting your point across.

Thank you.

BullDog · 09-07-2010, 04:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Billy

Hey I am all for a Lesbian cruise Have no problem with it ...But not all lesbians are femme and it seemed to leave out the folks that are more masculine and it should not matter what you look like , if you ID as Lesbian then all Lesbian should be welcome ..

I am a lesbian butch with a masculine appearance. I don't think I would have a problem if I wanted to go. As to butches and appearance you really can't tell by looking at someone whether they are lesbian or not.

Many butches are lesbian. Some are not.

Corkey · 09-07-2010, 04:56 PM

Tell that to Blaze who was left holding a ticket on the docks. Don't know how Blaze ID'd at the time, but it would appear that appearance was the case.

weatherboi · 09-07-2010, 05:08 PM

hi Bulldog!!!
hi folks!!!

appearance aside i think there is a difference in how a group of female id'd butches are gonna be perceived/received by olivia than a group of male id'd butches.

Blaze · 09-07-2010, 05:30 PM

Wow, I go to work and come back to see all of this...
Since Corkey said to ask me, I shall explain what happened. There was 22 of us that planned this for about a year. If you want the break down it was 9 Femmes, 10 Butches, 2 MTF and one FTM. Mind you, we all pretty much grew up together.
At that time, I was a Stone butch, and looked more like a surfer boy. Yes lesbian as I was venturing into my transitioning. I have no problem with whom or whom ever you may be. I just love my community and I am very protective of our community. Especially my FTM and MTF family. I relate most with because the understand what each other is going through while transitioning. I don't condemn any walk of life. That's the problem, we all start pointing finger and judging way before we actually acknowlede that we all bleed the same!
If some where making the assumtion that I was being disrespectful to the lesbian community than you took the football and ran your own game. I am a lesbian in transitioning of my own choice, I will always love my lesbian community because it is my roots. I just happen to love and respect my femme ladies, because I am Butch/trans.
Now that this is clear. My whole point was that we were disrespected. I don't appreciate that at all. Perhaps I shouldn't have put my story on this thread, BUT. I do have the right to state why I choose not to support or spend my hard own money on Olivia's cruise. If this all started the whole change, then I apologize to anyone I did offend. But in my eyes, I did not insult anyone. I just pointed out why I would never and I said NEVER support that company, ever.
I don't see anything in my post discriminating any gender or claimed group.

09-07-2010, 03:16 PM	#83
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,079 Times in 15,669 Posts Rep Power: 21474874	I don't get it why every fucking time someone or we as a community try to speak of trans issues or transphobia it turns into this. Why does it seem as soon as to much trans talk happens this whole fear runs amock in whatever thread that lesbians are being attacked.. I have asked several damn times where the hell is all the divisive, phobic statements against lesbians and ism's being said. Cause god damn it, some of us have some trans folks in our lives who get tired of every time a discussion happens the accusations of lesbians not wanted arises.. Ridiculous. __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden

09-07-2010, 03:18 PM	#84
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,665 Times in 4,464 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Snow if you are referring to my post I said what my position on including transwomen was and didn't accuse anyone of anything. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

09-07-2010, 03:43 PM	#89
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,270 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	Jebus Bully no one is calling you the liar, please re read and you will see who is being referenced. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

09-07-2010, 03:46 PM	#90
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,665 Times in 4,464 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	OK, ok sorry Snow. I see what the liar part is referring to now. Olivia Cruise is not appropriate for holding a butch femme event. I agree. That was the first thing I said. I really thought people were saying it was wrong to have vacations geared towards lesbians, but if that is not the case then I think I am clear on things. And yeah, I haven't been following the other story but I can see where it would make things raw. Thank you. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

09-07-2010, 04:45 PM	#94
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,665 Times in 4,464 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	I did find the other convo on the other channel. I do agree with the concerns raised and also the points of making sure everyone would be welcomed and comfortable while at the same time respecting women's space. Interesting how people were treated for raising genuine concerns. Hmmm I don't think women's only or lesbian space is exclusionary unless there are some women or lesbians (for example transwomen) who are not welcome. I don't feel businesses set up to cater to gay men are exclusionary. I do not feel excluded when trans events for trans people are organized. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

09-07-2010, 04:17 PM	#92
naturlover_52 Member How Do You Identify?: soft butch/bi Preferred Pronoun?: she and her are just fine....Sweetcheeks hey you Relationship Status: seeing someone long distance but soon will be both in Ca love her very much Join Date: Jun 2010 Location: So Calif East San Gabrielle Valley aka the land of shake and bake Posts: 108 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 85 Thanked 89 Times in 44 Posts Rep Power: 3426	[QUOTE=gayla;187445]What people are saying is that we each have an individual choice as to whether we support Olivia by attending their events and giving them our money. Right now, where I'm at in my life today, I can't imagine spending any amount of time on a boat full of 3,000 lesbians. That's not some place that I would be comfortable. It doesn't sound like fun. Throw me on a boat full of 3,000 gay men, I'd probably have much more fun. I would have to Agree w/ Gayla...About NOT wanting to be on a boat w/ 3,000 lesbians....BUT for me I just am NOT a cruise type person....lesbian OR Straight. I lived in Alaska for 7 years in Fairbanks and saw the people being carted around like Cattle....I would have to agree w/ the rest of those that have posted about Olivia being Unaccommodating to ALL of the Community. I am NOT a follower SOOO I don't go by what MY friends are doing or as support.....I do it because of the fact that like ANOTHER member stated....I don't support ANY kind of ISM....BE it be Sexuality based, gender based or race based. and as to what Snow said....Then it somehow translated into anti lesbian craziness. It happens A LOT if trans issues are discussed by the same group of peeps. ONLY one person wanted this thread moved because of the fact that is was ANTIlesbian...and ADMIN spoke to her. I have been following this post ALL the way along...I agree that Olivia is a business and HAS their right to do business how they want....I would rather GO to Alaska Via Ferry w/ friends gay, straight, trans...JUST because there is MORE freedom to DO what U want....travel where U want....and NOT have to follow the rules of a COMPANY. If I was gonna drop money like this ON a vacation it would be to go to like Hawaii to the BIG island...and maybe go to a GENERAL Gay....area....by gay....I mean the Community as a whole. Thanks

09-07-2010, 04:56 PM	#98
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,270 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	Tell that to Blaze who was left holding a ticket on the docks. Don't know how Blaze ID'd at the time, but it would appear that appearance was the case. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

09-07-2010, 05:08 PM	#99
weatherboi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Owned boy Preferred Pronoun?: Hey boy!!! Relationship Status: counting freckles slowly under Her direction!!! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: i have 2 sets of geographic coordinates!!! Posts: 6,097 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 26,797 Thanked 12,549 Times in 2,993 Posts Rep Power: 21474858	hi Bulldog!!! hi folks!!! appearance aside i think there is a difference in how a group of female id'd butches are gonna be perceived/received by olivia than a group of male id'd butches.

09-07-2010, 05:30 PM	#100
Blaze Senior Member How Do You Identify?: With my drivers Lic. Preferred Pronoun?: Gentleman.. Depends on the Situation. Relationship Status: Last Rodeo, what a ride, many sunrises & sunsets to be had... Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: where a realtor had me sign the dotted line Posts: 1,901 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,466 Thanked 5,457 Times in 1,450 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	Wow, I go to work and come back to see all of this... Since Corkey said to ask me, I shall explain what happened. There was 22 of us that planned this for about a year. If you want the break down it was 9 Femmes, 10 Butches, 2 MTF and one FTM. Mind you, we all pretty much grew up together. At that time, I was a Stone butch, and looked more like a surfer boy. Yes lesbian as I was venturing into my transitioning. I have no problem with whom or whom ever you may be. I just love my community and I am very protective of our community. Especially my FTM and MTF family. I relate most with because the understand what each other is going through while transitioning. I don't condemn any walk of life. That's the problem, we all start pointing finger and judging way before we actually acknowlede that we all bleed the same! If some where making the assumtion that I was being disrespectful to the lesbian community than you took the football and ran your own game. I am a lesbian in transitioning of my own choice, I will always love my lesbian community because it is my roots. I just happen to love and respect my femme ladies, because I am Butch/trans. Now that this is clear. My whole point was that we were disrespected. I don't appreciate that at all. Perhaps I shouldn't have put my story on this thread, BUT. I do have the right to state why I choose not to support or spend my hard own money on Olivia's cruise. If this all started the whole change, then I apologize to anyone I did offend. But in my eyes, I did not insult anyone. I just pointed out why I would never and I said NEVER support that company, ever. I don't see anything in my post discriminating any gender or claimed group.