Olivia Cruisers? Carribean Sun Cruise October 30th

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Billy

Hey I am all for a Lesbian cruise Have no problem with it ...But not all lesbians are femme and it seemed to leave out the folks that are more masculine and it should not matter what you look like , if you ID as Lesbian then all Lesbian should be welcome ..

I am a lesbian butch with a masculine appearance. I don't think I would have a problem if I wanted to go. As to butches and appearance you really can't tell by looking at someone whether they are lesbian or not. Many butches are lesbian. Some are not.

[Corkey]

Tell that to Blaze who was left holding a ticket on the docks. Don't know how Blaze ID'd at the time, but it would appear that appearance was the case.

[weatherboi]

hi Bulldog!!!
hi folks!!!

appearance aside i think there is a difference in how a group of female id'd butches are gonna be perceived/received by olivia than a group of male id'd butches.

[Blaze]

Wow, I go to work and come back to see all of this...
Since Corkey said to ask me, I shall explain what happened. There was 22 of us that planned this for about a year. If you want the break down it was 9 Femmes, 10 Butches, 2 MTF and one FTM. Mind you, we all pretty much grew up together.
At that time, I was a Stone butch, and looked more like a surfer boy. Yes lesbian as I was venturing into my transitioning. I have no problem with whom or whom ever you may be. I just love my community and I am very protective of our community. Especially my FTM and MTF family. I relate most with because the understand what each other is going through while transitioning. I don't condemn any walk of life. That's the problem, we all start pointing finger and judging way before we actually acknowlede that we all bleed the same!
If some where making the assumtion that I was being disrespectful to the lesbian community than you took the football and ran your own game. I am a lesbian in transitioning of my own choice, I will always love my lesbian community because it is my roots. I just happen to love and respect my femme ladies, because I am Butch/trans.
Now that this is clear. My whole point was that we were disrespected. I don't appreciate that at all. Perhaps I shouldn't have put my story on this thread, BUT. I do have the right to state why I choose not to support or spend my hard own money on Olivia's cruise. If this all started the whole change, then I apologize to anyone I did offend. But in my eyes, I did not insult anyone. I just pointed out why I would never and I said NEVER support that company, ever.
I don't see anything in my post discriminating any gender or claimed group.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

hi Bulldog!!!
hi folks!!!

appearance aside i think there is a difference in how a group of female id'd butches are gonna be perceived/received by olivia than a group of male id'd butches.

How so? How would anyone know? Many of you just were at the BFP Reunion or have been in a group of butches where they were various identities. Are you telling me that male id'd butches look and act different than woman/female butches?

[weatherboi]

Originally Posted by BullDog

How so? How would anyone know? Many of you just were at the BFP Reunion or have been in a group of butches where they were various identities. Are you telling me that male id'd butches look and act different than woman/female butches?

Look different? If you read my post in its' entirety you would have noticed the first 2 words..."appearance aside"
Act different? No

What I am saying is focused on energy, natural instinct, and experience.
I am also talking about Olivia Cruise Lines only, which I stated in my post. It is a classist company geared towards lesbians of an above average household income!!! The employees have filters on from the get go!!! It is so very obvious to me how uneducated they are/were on dealing with trans issues when it came down to customer service. I was privy with my presence to both conversations Snow had with their customer service people and they made a mess of it. I have no desire to be in a female only space or a desire to try and make a female only space inclusive to guys like me.

IMO, if/when a group of male id'd butches come walking up onto their dock they may be, probably will be, perceived as frat guy like with the ability to be more rowdy/aggressive, or threatening even depending on said employees education about our community.

Bulldog...i hope this helps!!!

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Look different? If you read my post in its' entirety you would have noticed the first 2 words..."appearance aside"
Act different? No

What I am saying is focused on energy, natural instinct, and experience.
I am also talking about Olivia Cruise Lines only, which I stated in my post. It is a classist company geared towards lesbians of an above average household income!!! The employees have filters on from the get go!!! It is so very obvious to me how uneducated they are/were on dealing with trans issues when it came down to customer service. I was privy with my presence to both conversations Snow had with their customer service people and they made a mess of it. I have no desire to be in a female only space or a desire to try and make a female only space inclusive to guys like me.

IMO, if/when a group of male id'd butches come walking up onto their dock they may be, probably will be, perceived as frat guy like with the ability to be more rowdy/aggressive, or threatening even depending on said employees education about our community.

Bulldog...i hope this helps!!!

How are they going to know you are male identified butches?

You say you have no desire to be in female only space. That makes sense to me. It seems male identified people wouldn't want to go but are complaining that they are being excluded. That doesn't make sense to me.

[Billy]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I am a lesbian butch with a masculine appearance. I don't think I would have a problem if I wanted to go. As to butches and appearance you really can't tell by looking at someone whether they are lesbian or not. Many butches are lesbian. Some are not.

I bet the price of that cruise your not going to get on Because you are masculine looking ..They have already said you are not welcome ...I could be wrong and I have been all day ..lol But I think someone posted a letter from them ...

[Isadora]

wow, I have been on one with Schon and a bunch of b/f people. Really? No one bothered us. No one called us names. No one wanted to check our Schon's hoo hoo for authentication. Schon is a pretty masculine butch.

I wore a dress, Schon wore a suit for dinners and special events. There were lots of other couples like us and lots that were not. We even won the Newlywed/Oldywed contest in front of 600 participants. They were more freaked out about us being Poly. Funny how people pull there g/f's closer like Imma gonna throw em down and run away with them.

Now men may find it different but there were lots of b/f people on our little trip almost 11 years ago.

*shrug*

[Billy]

Originally Posted by Isadora

wow, I have been on one with Schon and a bunch of b/f people. Really? No one bothered us. No one called us names. No one wanted to check our Schon's hoo hoo for authentication. Schon is a pretty masculine butch.

I wore a dress, Schon wore a suit for dinners and special events. There were lots of other couples like us and lots that were not. We even won the Newlywed/Oldywed contest in front of 600 participants. They were more freaked out about us being Poly. Funny how people pull there g/f's closer like Imma gonna throw em down and run away with them.

Now men may find it different but there were lots of b/f people on our little trip almost 11 years ago.

*shrug*

It's always a pleasure to see you

If I may ask ..Was this cruise with the same cruise line or was it another cruise line ......And I am wondering if they changed policy's since then ...

[Isadora]

Originally Posted by Billy

It's always a pleasure to see you

If I may ask ..Was this cruise with the same cruise line or was it another cruise line ......And I am wondering if they changed policy's since then ...

*smiles Thank you!

Same cruise line Olivia...same people. We actually flew in with Judy Dlugacz. I met Judy years ago when Olivia was a recording company. I have no idea. Did they say you couldn't come? I must be missing something. LOL

[Billy]

Originally Posted by Isadora

*smiles Thank you!

Same cruise line Olivia...same people. We actually flew in with Judy Dlugacz. I met Judy years ago when Olivia was a recording company. I have no idea. Did they say you couldn't come? I must be missing something. LOL

I am glad you enjoyed you time on the cruise But I think since then they have changed their policy it seems ....They seem to have issues with the more masculine looking Lesbians or butch /stone etc .....As for Me it's a given , I am not surprised by this at all ...

[citybutch]

My wife and I have been on two Olivia Cruises in the past... this century! I have to say that this was our experience as well... I wore suits and ties at night and she wore dresses... We saw many many masculine presenting Butches and no one was harrassed at all in our experience. I think Olivia needs some serious PR upgrades if they want to look toward a solid future in providing cruises to our community... and keep up with a younger generation... where clearly there is a deeper and broader acceptance of our rainbow of gender expression...

That in mind, we are not really interested in Olivia in the future. I think if we went on a cruise again we would look at Sweet Cruises based on some things that were posted here as well as the fact that they do good things as they are cruising... It is not simply about consumption but about giving back... and I like that a lot... With that being said... we have a lot more on our travel agenda over cruises...

Originally Posted by Isadora

wow, I have been on one with Schon and a bunch of b/f people. Really? No one bothered us. No one called us names. No one wanted to check our Schon's hoo hoo for authentication. Schon is a pretty masculine butch.

I wore a dress, Schon wore a suit for dinners and special events. There were lots of other couples like us and lots that were not. We even won the Newlywed/Oldywed contest in front of 600 participants. They were more freaked out about us being Poly. Funny how people pull there g/f's closer like Imma gonna throw em down and run away with them.

Now men may find it different but there were lots of b/f people on our little trip almost 11 years ago.

*shrug*

[SuperFemme]

Aside from the whole issue of what Olivia does or does not do?
I have to admit I am not even a smidge interested in going on a cruise. (cruising in the queer sense is not off the list though).

Here is one of the reasons for my disdain:

[MsMerrick]

Not to get too detailed.
I agree with what Medusa said
I personally know many very masculine looking Butches that have had a great time on Olivia Cruises
I remember the Music Label very well, an ex of mine had a record with them.
Myself, I would and have criticized any BF site that wanted to create a "site event" around an Olivia cruise, because it would not be a place all would be welcome and BF sites tend to be more diverse than Lesbian events. Oh and because frankly the expense would also cut out so many people that it would be insulting, imho.
Would i go on an Olivia Cruise?
Someone else wants to foot the bill, sure Ok its not really my
It s way down on my list of things I would like to do.. But that's any cruise, any where..Just not my idea of fun...
Feel free to send me free cruise tickets, along with the air fare to get there..and change my mind
and Morning Star, have a great time ; )

[citybutch]

OMG! Usually they avoid the waves days ahead of time! YIKES!

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Aside from the whole issue of what Olivia does or does not do?
I have to admit I am not even a smidge interested in going on a cruise. (cruising in the queer sense is not off the list though).

Here is one of the reasons for my disdain:

[SuperFemme]

If you harm my brothers and sisters, I can not in good conscience condone that.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Billy

I bet the price of that cruise your not going to get on Because you are masculine looking ..They have already said you are not welcome ...I could be wrong and I have been all day ..lol But I think someone posted a letter from them ...

Billy, I have been a lesbian for 30 years and have very masculine butch friends as well. We have never been turned away from lesbian events.

[socialjustice_fsu]

I wanted to add that cruising had been my choice of vacation venues for several years...Alaska, Eastern and Western Carribean, Nova Scotia, Mexico, Bermuda. My partner at the time and I researched carefully the cruises we felt we would be most comfortable on, the cost, the ports of call, etc. We looked in depth at Olivia as we had been Robin Tyler supporters for years through her music promotions and such. Something kind of got lost in the mix over the past few years, though. We had always used the same travel agent that knew us well. My partner had some masculine traits that were certainly noticable to the general public. Our travel agent suggested we go with a mainstream cruiseline as Olivia had become more and more 'selective' of their potential patrons. Not only was our agent inferring issues with the butch-femme dynamic but other underpinnings were alive and well, too. I could not leave that alone, of course. After some investigative delving we learned that Olivia - and I would say perhaps even the more affluent attracting cruiselines (Seven Seas, Seabourne, Celebrity, Cunard) - researched their potential passengers as to income level, credit worthiness, asset assessments, the overall 'value' of the person. We felt we were being scrutinized to buy a multimillion dollar home. No way for those myriad of reasons could we support such business practices. We have cruised Norwegian Cruiselines and found them to be more than accomodating...however, at this point I would only opt to support any business/venue that keeps in mind two premises: 1) one that would welcome ALL of our community and, 2) my safety.

While cruising can be the ultimate vacation for many...time has made me think differently. The cruiselines we did use welcomed us, my elderly mother, my crotchety 84 year old Aunt, and my 94 year old well traveled Aunt - yes, that flew in a helicopter and landed on Mendenhall Glacier. I would not ever want to lose those memories.

Now our environment is more in peril. I look for vacation venues that do not damage the environment as well as a means to somehow support all of my community.

Now we have folks such as Medusa and Jack who have been visionaries and provided a welcoming, safe space for all of us. The cost was minimal compared to any cruise. No, I did not attend the Reunion but I have lived vicariously through the photos and the posts. I am not going to miss 2011, either.

I can only hope MountainStar has a safe and memory-filled cruise. I just have to say that we have a gift of community being practically given to us with the support of this site. We are welcomed to this TABLE...let's enjoy this banquet.[/COLOR]

[Billy]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Billy, I have been a lesbian for 30 years and have very masculine butch friends as well. We have never been turned away from lesbian events.

This has nothing to do with how long you have been a Lesbian ...And we are not talking about ALL Lesbian events ....This is about 1 cruise line and their policy ! Like I said before I bet you the price of that cruise YOU because of your looks and their policy YOU are NOT getting on that ship ! I mean is this a ego thing here , because you have been a Lesbian for 30 years and have never been turned away from a Lesbian event , how dare they turn ME away ...Is there a special card you can flash ...And after everything you have read on this thread , I think you have missed the point ....