Were you adopted in a closed adoption?

[FeminineAllure]

The point I am trying to make about bad genes vs good genes is for example...

I have Bipolar. I was finally diagnosed at 21. Was that bad gene with me from birth?

Yes. Did me or my family know this? No. If we had all known my medical history regaurding this would it have mattered? Perhaps in getting a quicker diagnosis.
So, I take medication and have been hospital free and stabilized for over 10 years now!
If I had not been adopted would I still have bipolar? Yes. Would that have made any significant difference in the quality of my life? I don't think so.

I have some other medical issues I am dealing with. Are they genetic or lifestyle? I can choose to eat better nutritionally which would lower my risk factors to certain predispositions. Etc...So is it lifestyle that plays with some factors or solely genetics? I believe a bit of both. But some things are my responsibility such as taking my medications to prevent symptoms. Not because I am adopted.

As far as the article shared
I appreciate you sharing it but don't agree one bit about adoptees having more:

conflict with authority (for example truancy);
preoccupation with excessive fantasy;
pathological lying;
stealing;
running away (from home, school, group homes, situations);
learning difficulties, under-achievement, over-achievement;
lack of impulse control (acting out, promiscuity, sex crimes);
fascination with fire, fire-setting
"In twenty-five years of practice I have seen hundreds of adoptees, most adopted in infancy. In case after case, I have observed what I have come to call the Adopted Child Syndrome, which may include pathological lying, stealing, truancy, manipulation, shallowness of attachment, provocation of parents and other authorities, threatened or actual running away, promiscuity, learning problems, fire-setting, and increasingly serious antisocial behavior, often leading to court custody. It may include an extremely negative or grandiose self-image, low frustration tolerance, and an absence of normal guilt or anxiety."

It sounds like his practice was filled with sociopaths by the traits he is describing.
Do adoptees have a higher incidence of becoming a sociopath then non adoptees in mainstream society? Yes. But is it nature over nurture? I believe we can change our destiny. Some factors are a choice. Let's look at alcoholism. Is it genetic? Yes. So if an alcoholic passes the bad genes of alcoholism to a child will that child whether biological or adopted have a higher predisposition to becoming an alcoholic? Yes. But there are still choices and help available to adoptees as well as biological children. And if this person learns something very beneficial from having the bad gene of alcoholism that perhaps changes others lives is that gene truly a bad one?

I will just end my rambling with two quotes I live by:

For all of the pain, abuse, anger experienced by some including myself who are adopted
"To forgive is to set a prisoner free, and discover that the prisoner was you". -Lewis B Smedes, "Forgiveness - The Power to Change the Past"

If I did not learn to forgive my biological parents, my adoptive parents I would be and remain the prisoner not them.

"I've learned that our background and circumstances
May have influenced who we are,
But we are responsible for who we become."

James Rhinehart



"My life is my message"...... Your life is your message.
Mahatma Gandhi

[NotAnAverageGuy]

You may not agree but for many adoptees out there who do agree with the article might tell you so. I am being one of those.

I am bi polar as well, I have a MAJOR issue with authority and always have, I have stolen from family and friends, learning difficulties, impulse control issues and have been known to set fires as a child.

Sociopath? Me, prolly no doubt, do I care no, not in the least bit, my siblings would be considered sociopaths as well.

Do I think most of those things you pointed at are choices, No I do not. I have my own reasons and my real family being the one reason I do not belive in choices.

[FeminineAllure]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

You may not agree but for many adoptees out there who do agree with the article might tell you so. I am being one of those.

I am bi polar as well, I have a MAJOR issue with authority and always have, I have stolen from family and friends, learning difficulties, impulse control issues and have been known to set fires as a child.

Sociopath? Me, prolly no doubt, do I care no, not in the least bit, my siblings would be considered sociopaths as well.

Do I think most of those things you pointed at are choices, No I do not. I have my own reasons and my real family being the one reason I do not belive in choices.

Many adoptees would agree with the article you shared and many would not as well. It is interesting you are comfortable admitting you are a sociopath when so many who are try so hard to conceal it.
Bottom line is we agree to disagree.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

Many adoptees would agree with the article you shared and many would not as well. It is interesting you are comfortable admitting you are a sociopath when so many who are try so hard to conceal it.
Bottom line is we agree to disagree.

Yes I know some with agree and disagree

Why lie about what many doctors and such have told me and my family? I am not the type to pussyfoot around or hide my feelings on things, I am blunt on many things and stand my ground. Why others try to so hard to conceal something is beyond me, if you keep hiding, things get worse.

[Apocalipstic]

Thank you to everyone who has posted, I need to go back and read it all and will respond, but first I want to respond to this post and all the posts one at a time.

Originally Posted by bigbutchmistie

I never got a chance to ask my mom when she was living why my brother and I were adopted together. I know what my grandmother told me before she passed. She said that my mom was in an abusive relationship with my father and agreed to have her rights taken away with my father's if my brother and I could be adopted. Neither set of grandparents would raise us. So we were adopted together. I know we lived in foster homes together for years and came across the couple who were the ones to introduce us to our adopted parents.

I loved those people like they were my parents. Growing up I was refused contact with them. We saw them once in a while years would go by. When I was 18 and I moved up here to meet my real parents the original foster parents played a role in it.

It was very emotional. My father is still the same piece of shit he was when I was little. However my mom and I developed a really close relationship.
While my brother was still living at home with my adopted parents he wasnt allowed to see me or talk to me. Since I was told I was never welcome. He wasnt allowed to have any contact with me while he was under their roof. It tore me up. He and I were really close growing up. I watched my biological mom cry on a daily basis because she felt she made a mistake. One she could never take back.

I know she used to say when she had gotten her life together soon after we were adopted she became a cop because she wanted to search for my brother and I and find us and kidnap us back LOL and no one would have ever found us.

I watched her emotional agony and never really understood how much she hurt over that. I know that the day we were taken away finally by the state she was in the kitchen with her mom my grandmother who had a brain anurism and died instantly.

I have always admired her strength. To lose your kids and your mom in the same day. Most people would be locked away for the rest of their lives. My mom has said she kicked in survival mode at that point. She left my abusive father was a cop and the last few years of her life owned her own beauty salon.

I know in her heart she felt she didnt do the right thing giving up custody. She always would say if she had to do it again. She'd left my father and done whatever it took to raise a family. Up until the day she died she apologized to me she felt she couldnt forgive herself.

I was young enough that growing up I didnt remember her and as I explained before the only time I heard about her was to be told I would amount to nothing but trash like her.

When I met her it was hard on us at first. We didnt have a relationship. We fought and argued and I blamed her for all the abuse I encountered daily with the adopted parents. It wasnt until close to her death that we obtained a really close relationship. And it was an ex that helped me do it.

I guess the thing that I have never really understood is how I still feel close to the foster parents that I had before I was adopted. My name sake.
We are building a close relationship and recently came out to them and they were accepting. And they have the pics of me when I was little. And laugh and tell me about things that I did. Just like a mom or dad would.

What a difference 30 years makes. I dont feel sorry for myself because of all I had to endure. It has made me the person I am today and the better person I will be in the future.

Thanks for sharing Misty, we have a lot in common actually. My
biological Father became a cop in Dallas and may still be. My biograndfather on my mother's side was the sheriff of their town, I think it was Hobart, OK. My adopted mother, whom I loved more than I can put into words, died allegedly of an aneurysm (though that is not what her death certificate says).

I am so glad that you got to meet your mother and that the meeting went well, and even more glad that you seem to have a foster family who still cares about you and accepts you for who you are.

Do you get to see your brother now? How cruel to not let you see him. My heart goes out to you both.

[bigbutchmistie]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Thank you to everyone who has posted, I need to go back and read it all and will respond, but first I want to respond to this post and all the posts one at a time.



Thanks for sharing Misty, we have a lot in common actually. My
biological Father became a cop in Dallas and may still be. My biograndfather on my mother's side was the sheriff of their town, I think it was Hobart, OK. My adopted mother, whom I loved more than I can put into words, died allegedly of an aneurysm (though that is not what her death certificate says).

I am so glad that you got to meet your mother and that the meeting went well, and even more glad that you seem to have a foster family who still cares about you and accepts you for who you are.

Do you get to see your brother now? How cruel to not let you see him. My heart goes out to you both.

I saw my brother when he graduated high school. I took my biological mom with me. We were asked to leave. I stayed. I felt she should see him graduate. I didnt see him until he joined the Army and came back from Afghanistan. Then my mom and I went down to Fort Polk LA to get him and his friend a week before she died. He only got to know her for about a week. A few weeks later he shipped out for a few years to Iraq. We have had a relationship off and on. Not of my choosing. But of his. He struggles with my being gay. And my adopted parents "claim" him as their son. So he is torn. Ive let him know that my door is always open and Im just a phone call away. We got to spend Thanksgiving together this year. That was great. He is supposed to go to Center Texas and see his boys. They live with my adopted parents. But yes. I miss the closeness that he and I shared when we were little

[NotAnAverageGuy]

You know what would be great, a BFP adoptees gathering

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

Yes I know some with agree and disagree

Why lie about what many doctors and such have told me and my family? I am not the type to pussyfoot around or hide my feelings on things, I am blunt on many things and stand my ground. Why others try to so hard to conceal something is beyond me, if you keep hiding, things get worse.

I am very blunt too, and why hide?

We have been lied to enough, had secrets enough.

Telling the truth is what is helping. The whole truth.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

You may not agree but for many adoptees out there who do agree with the article might tell you so. I am being one of those.

I am bi polar as well, I have a MAJOR issue with authority and always have, I have stolen from family and friends, learning difficulties, impulse control issues and have been known to set fires as a child.

Sociopath? Me, prolly no doubt, do I care no, not in the least bit, my siblings would be considered sociopaths as well.

Do I think most of those things you pointed at are choices, No I do not. I have my own reasons and my real family being the one reason I do not belive in choices.

I was also diagnosed as bi-polar in my 20's. We later discovered that it was PTSD and major depression and that my manic moments were cocaine induced.

I do think we have some choices, but I also believe that being ripped from our mother's arms and left with no touch for weeks until another woman took us in has to make a big difference in our lives.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by FeminineAllure

The point I am trying to make about bad genes vs good genes is for example...

I have Bipolar. I was finally diagnosed at 21. Was that bad gene with me from birth?

Yes. Did me or my family know this? No. If we had all known my medical history regaurding this would it have mattered? Perhaps in getting a quicker diagnosis.
So, I take medication and have been hospital free and stabilized for over 10 years now!
If I had not been adopted would I still have bipolar? Yes. Would that have made any significant difference in the quality of my life? I don't think so.

I have some other medical issues I am dealing with. Are they genetic or lifestyle? I can choose to eat better nutritionally which would lower my risk factors to certain predispositions. Etc...So is it lifestyle that plays with some factors or solely genetics? I believe a bit of both. But some things are my responsibility such as taking my medications to prevent symptoms. Not because I am adopted.

As far as the article shared
I appreciate you sharing it but don't agree one bit about adoptees having more:

conflict with authority (for example truancy);
preoccupation with excessive fantasy;
pathological lying;
stealing;
running away (from home, school, group homes, situations);
learning difficulties, under-achievement, over-achievement;
lack of impulse control (acting out, promiscuity, sex crimes);
fascination with fire, fire-setting
"In twenty-five years of practice I have seen hundreds of adoptees, most adopted in infancy. In case after case, I have observed what I have come to call the Adopted Child Syndrome, which may include pathological lying, stealing, truancy, manipulation, shallowness of attachment, provocation of parents and other authorities, threatened or actual running away, promiscuity, learning problems, fire-setting, and increasingly serious antisocial behavior, often leading to court custody. It may include an extremely negative or grandiose self-image, low frustration tolerance, and an absence of normal guilt or anxiety."

It sounds like his practice was filled with sociopaths by the traits he is describing.
Do adoptees have a higher incidence of becoming a sociopath then non adoptees in mainstream society? Yes. But is it nature over nurture? I believe we can change our destiny. Some factors are a choice. Let's look at alcoholism. Is it genetic? Yes. So if an alcoholic passes the bad genes of alcoholism to a child will that child whether biological or adopted have a higher predisposition to becoming an alcoholic? Yes. But there are still choices and help available to adoptees as well as biological children. And if this person learns something very beneficial from having the bad gene of alcoholism that perhaps changes others lives is that gene truly a bad one?

I will just end my rambling with two quotes I live by:

For all of the pain, abuse, anger experienced by some including myself who are adopted
"To forgive is to set a prisoner free, and discover that the prisoner was you". -Lewis B Smedes, "Forgiveness - The Power to Change the Past"

If I did not learn to forgive my biological parents, my adoptive parents I would be and remain the prisoner not them.

"I've learned that our background and circumstances
May have influenced who we are,
But we are responsible for who we become."

James Rhinehart



"My life is my message"...... Your life is your message.
Mahatma Gandhi

I am not trying to argue with you and I don't want to post a lot of statististics, but children who are adopted in closed adoptions are way more likely to kill their parents, be serial killers and have all sorts of problems.

Its great that you have adjusted so well and that you know you would have had the same problems whether or not you were adopted.

I think it's important for our own self forgiveness that we know and accept the fact that growing up away from our people does make a difference.

I am so happy you have worked things out and are doing so well!