Stone Butches

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

Hi !

Your post jumped out at me.. maybe because of the time, 1:11 of your post (my own thing) and maybe because I have usually liked your input on these subjects.. I've seen the stone threads take a bad turn because not everyone agrees what a stone is. I liked what you said about leaving room for experimentation! I cannot imagine a world, or sex where it is so limited, dependent on a preconceived notion that I would or would not like something.. each person IS different. There are hard limits of course I realize this.. maybe thats why its called *stone* ?

Stone butch (and stone femme) like MANY words in our vocabulary are user defined.. as it should be I feel. I get confused with the whole thing.

I've read this thread a little here and there, and have largely held off posting because:

1) I don't at this point in my life identify as stone butch, though there was a time in which I did.
2) I have always been frustrated by how some attempt choose to define the identity of others. I mostly overcome this feeling by remembering that the ignorance, assumptions and sense of entitlement of others is no reflection on me.

However, I was sort of surprised that by page 4 there has been no discussion of the etymology of the word, even after sassy made the post above.

While many words are "user defined," especially those revolving around identity (like "stone"), each does have a root from which it originated. Stone comes from the term "stone cold," to refer to things that were "very cold." The root of that expression is believed to reference when floors were often made of slate and would become extremely cold in winter. Other examples of this application include, "stone cold sober" simply meaning very sober; sober as most possibly sober.

One commonly held belief is that "stone butch" came about to refer to butches that were "stone cold butch;" the most butch among butches - those who were most masculine (and I pointedly state "masculine" not male). This is the definition to which I have always held. It refers to a butch who is unwavering in their identity, and in their presentation of self; one who would never sacrifice their personal sense of comfort, well being and identity in order to bend to the wishes of others, whether seeking a job, dealing with family, or a sexual partner. This definition, for me, includes no particular reference to sex/sexuality, but allows for each stone butch to define for themselves what their comfort level is and how they are going to hold that line - in all aspects of their life. Technically, that means a stone butch could be quite "free" sexually, including open to anal penetration or oral sex, for example.

I have seen a lot of nonsense over the years in which people have tried to say that if one is stone they would never engage in x, y, z sexual practices, but I disagree that the label includes such rigid definitions, or in fact, that it would necessarily include much in the way of preconceived or pre-defined notions of sex. Further, being stone doesn't in any way necessarily relate to being a top, or a "daddy." These are other, unrelated identities that can certainly be attached, but are not inclusive in the definition of stone butch.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Converse

It is simply who I am, it is not an activity or a set of guidelines that are followed when the bedroom door is closed- it is who I am when I sit across the dinner table from you,

YES. Did you hear the click? Circuit complete....

Originally Posted by Converse

it is who I am when my opinion or advice is sought, it is who I am when I greet or walk beside you. We can only really understand the world from the shoes in which we stand- and although my boots are Stone, they are not heavy or uncomfortable; they instead make me sure footed, connected, confident.

This is exactly what I mean, exactly what draws me--the place from which a Stone Butch sees the world.

Originally Posted by Converse

Anybody can change their behaviour; ignoring the fact that I would probably be sporting a twisted ankle within minutes, I’m sure for example I could wear a pair of heels. But as disorientating as that might be to any onlooker, it would be nothing compared to the degree of alienation that I would feel about myself. Can I explain why? No not really- all I know is that is who I am. It feels right and as natural as hmmmm… stone.

One of the things which draws me to both Stone Butches and Transmen is this kind of self-awareness and self-confidence, this (usually hard-won) knowledge that of all the ways to be in this world and regardless of other people's judgment, this is the way that fits them best--and not just them, but also fits me (and other potential partners) the best. It was Stone Butches who taught me to stop judging myself by other people's (impossible) standards, who allowed me to simply relax into myself and be who I am in all parts of my life without fear or guilt. It was Stone Butches who taught me--just by existing--about that energy circuit, and what it can mean when the connection is made. It was Stone Butches who knew what to say and how to say it, who knew how to rebuild my shattered confidence, who knew how to tell me that I have value just by being.

That wasn't a message I could hear from other Butches, even when they spoke it. I heard it from Stone Butches because of the energy connection between us; that period of my life, that time of great healing, holds my most treasured friendships and memories.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Bit

<snip>One of the things which draws me to both Stone Butches and Transmen is this kind of self-awareness and self-confidence, this (usually hard-won) knowledge that of all the ways to be in this world and regardless of other people's judgment, this is the way that fits them best--and not just them, but also fits me (and other potential partners) the best. It was Stone Butches who taught me to stop judging myself by other people's (impossible) standards, who allowed me to simply relax into myself and be who I am in all parts of my life without fear or guilt. It was Stone Butches who taught me--just by existing--about that energy circuit, and what it can mean when the connection is made. It was Stone Butches who knew what to say and how to say it, who knew how to rebuild my shattered confidence, who knew how to tell me that I have value just by being.

That wasn't a message I could hear from other Butches, even when they spoke it. I heard it from Stone Butches because of the energy connection between us; that period of my life, that time of great healing, holds my most treasured friendships and memories.

No offense intended, more a matter of clarification and to keep us all grounded here, but since you didn't, bit, please allow me to qualify that this "self-awareness and self-confidence...this (usually hard-won) knowledge that of all the ways to be in this world and regardless of other people's judgment, this is the way that fits them best" is in your experience, and hardly applicable across the board.

I think it is a huge fallacy to assume that either stone butches or transmen universally possess this self-awareness and self-confidence; that all veils of insecurity and self-doubt have been magically lifted. While this thread is to celebrate the stone butch (and here I will also go on record that the term "stoner" is sort of offensive to me), let's not bestow upon them some elevated status or mantles of higher evolution.

Which is not at all to diminish your personal experience of the clicking of all things that matter. You are fortunate to have that, and no one can take it.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by DapperButch

Ahhhhhh, Bit. One of the "mothers" of internet stone butch theory (so to speak), in my opinion. Welcome! <tips hat>

Thank you for the welcome, Dapper, and for that very kind thought. I never thought of myself that way, yanno? To me it was the community discussions that mattered, and we were all a part of that. I learned so much during those discussions, both about others and about myself!

Originally Posted by lipstixgal

I wonder where all the stone butches are in NJ/NY they keep to themselves I think..

Ah, well, Gail, it's not exactly something that shows on the outside *soft smile* and I think most Stone Butches are private about such things with new people anyway. You could try looking for the people who make your heart sing, and just being open to as many Butches as possible; the Stone Butches I've known have all valued getting to know a potential partner before actually talking about more intimate things.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

No offense intended, more a matter of clarification and to keep us all grounded here, but since you didn't, bit, please allow me to qualify that this "self-awareness and self-confidence...this (usually hard-won) knowledge that of all the ways to be in this world and regardless of other people's judgment, this is the way that fits them best" is in your experience, and hardly applicable across the board.

There is any other possible way to interpret "what draws ME," than that it would be "in my experience"? I think that possibly you do the rest of the readers of this thread a disservice to assume they are unable to understand that I am talking about myself and my own experience, most especially since I have taken pains to make it plain that I am NOT talking about anyone else.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

I think it is a huge fallacy to assume that either stone butches or transmen universally possess this self-awareness and self-confidence

Why would anyone make such an assumption, Bent? Why wouldn't people who are reading this thread say to themselves, "well, look, Cathie is talking about the kind of people she is attracted to, Stone Butches and Transmen who happen to embody that kind of self-awareness and confidence"? Why would anyone reading this thread assume that all people are the same, and that if I have run into confident Stone Butches, then ipso facto all Stone Butches are confident?

Again, I think you are doing the readers of this thread a disservice by assuming their inability to understand that I am talking about my own experience--and I believe you are doing us all a disservice by assuming that anyone would think this is the sum total of my experience.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

that all veils of insecurity and self-doubt have been magically lifted.

My talking about what Stone Butches have done for me and meant to me does not mean the flow was all one-way; it means that in the spirit and intent of this thread as I understand it, we are speaking about ourselves, not about others. As I understand this thread, we are to speak about our own experiences--and that is what I am very plainly doing.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

While this thread is to celebrate the stone butch (and here I will also go on record that the term "stoner" is sort of offensive to me), let's not bestow upon them some elevated status or mantles of higher evolution.

Why not, if they have done the hard work that merits it?

Why not recognize those who have changed my life and healed my broken spirit as the wonderful people they are?

How could my being honest about the kind of Stone Butches and Transmen I am attracted to, the kind who have helped me so much along my way, the kind who have educated and inspired me, possibly harm anyone?

Why should I be dishonest, and pretend they are NOT wonderful people, when--speaking purely from my own experience--they ARE wonderful people?

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

Which is not at all to diminish your personal experience of the clicking of all things that matter. You are fortunate to have that, and no one can take it.

I don't know how you meant this to come across, but it seems very patronizing to me. I hope I'm wrong about your intent. I actually very much hope I'm wrong about the intent of your entire post, as I don't like to think that you would assume such ignorance of our fellow posters--or of me.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Bit

There is any other possible way to interpret "what draws ME," than that it would be "in my experience"? I think that possibly you do the rest of the readers of this thread a disservice to assume they are unable to understand that I am talking about myself and my own experience, most especially since I have taken pains to make it plain that I am NOT talking about anyone else.



Why would anyone make such an assumption, Bent? Why wouldn't people who are reading this thread say to themselves, "well, look, Cathie is talking about the kind of people she is attracted to, Stone Butches and Transmen who happen to embody that kind of self-awareness and confidence"? Why would anyone reading this thread assume that all people are the same, and that if I have run into confident Stone Butches, then ipso facto all Stone Butches are confident?

Again, I think you are doing the readers of this thread a disservice by assuming their inability to understand that I am talking about my own experience--and I believe you are doing us all a disservice by assuming that anyone would think this is the sum total of my experience.



My talking about what Stone Butches have done for me and meant to me does not mean the flow was all one-way; it means that in the spirit and intent of this thread as I understand it, we are speaking about ourselves, not about others. As I understand this thread, we are to speak about our own experiences--and that is what I am very plainly doing.



Why not, if they have done the hard work that merits it?

Why not recognize those who have changed my life and healed my broken spirit as the wonderful people they are?

How could my being honest about the kind of Stone Butches and Transmen I am attracted to, the kind who have helped me so much along my way, the kind who have educated and inspired me, possibly harm anyone?

Why should I be dishonest, and pretend they are NOT wonderful people, when--speaking purely from my own experience--they ARE wonderful people?



I don't know how you meant this to come across, but it seems very patronizing to me. I hope I'm wrong about your intent. I actually very much hope I'm wrong about the intent of your entire post, as I don't like to think that you would assume such ignorance of our fellow posters--or of me.

You are free to take my post however suits you, though I had not one whit of patronizing intent.

Your statements alluded to your experiences, but can easily be read to apply to stone butches and transmen in general. The way your opening sentence is constructed implies not that it is true of only the stone butches and transmen that you have encountered, but that it is these particular qualities which have drawn you to stone butches and transmen (in general). That is a logical reading of the way you actually worded your sentence, which is why I phrased mine as a clarification.

I suspected that I knew what you meant, and that others might as well, but I wanted it to be damn clear, just as your response to me here has been infinitely more qualifying than your original post. Your original statements were far more general than these. Had you posted this way initially, I wouldn't have been compelled to say what I did. My reply had nothing to do with presumed ignorance, and everything to do with clarity. You have met some evolved individuals, but there is no correlation between their gender/sexual identity and their emotional evolution as a general condition. I simply wanted to make that very clear, otherwise, the implication is that others (with different identities) are less so (which I'm sure you would recognize as being offensive). If, as individuals, we are able to reach a state in which our emotional maturity and our gender/sexual identity are on parallel tracks, then we are fortunate creatures, indeed.

I do very much appreciate the opportunity to engage in this dialogue, thank you.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

You are free to take my post however suits you, though I had not one whit of patronizing intent.

That's good to know.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

Your statements alluded to your experiences, but can easily be read to apply to stone butches and transmen in general.

Only by someone who wishes to believe that I make blanket statements, since my entire post--which you chose to quote without context--was a response to this post, which I quote again for your convenience.

Originally Posted by Converse

Cocky hmmmm…perhaps I was just trying to be helpful

I like the “energy circuit” analogy- thank you for articulating it. The discussion around Stone is always interesting; with some wishing to make it a debate about politics and ideologies, and others making it about psychological hurdles concerned with body image and trust. But for me when the conversation involves Stone being a deliberate intellectual choice, or that it is a symptom of something that requires curing i.e. “melting the Stone”, I am at a loss.

It is simply who I am, it is not an activity or a set of guidelines that are followed when the bedroom door is closed- it is who I am when I sit across the dinner table from you, it is who I am when my opinion or advice is sought, it is who I am when I greet or walk beside you. We can only really understand the world from the shoes in which we stand- and although my boots are Stone, they are not heavy or uncomfortable; they instead make me sure footed, connected, confident.

Anybody can change their behaviour; ignoring the fact that I would probably be sporting a twisted ankle within minutes, I’m sure for example I could wear a pair of heels. But as disorientating as that might be to any onlooker, it would be nothing compared to the degree of alienation that I would feel about myself. Can I explain why? No not really- all I know is that is who I am. It feels right and as natural as hmmmm… stone.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

The way your opening sentence is constructed implies not that it is true of only the stone butches and transmen that you have encountered, but that it is these particular qualities which have drawn you to stone butches and transmen (in general). That is a logical reading of the way you actually worded your sentence, which is why I phrased mine as a clarification.

My opening sentence was the word "YES," so I think you might mean the first sentence you quoted.

Converse said, "But as disorientating as that might be to any onlooker, it would be nothing compared to the degree of alienation that I would feel about myself. Can I explain why? No not really- all I know is that is who I am. It feels right and as natural as hmmmm… stone. " and I replied directly to that statement, "One of the things which draws me to both Stone Butches and Transmen is this kind of self-awareness and self-confidence, this (usually hard-won) knowledge...."

I will reiterate that I acknowledged the confidence and self-awareness are usually hard-won, which right there says that it is a struggle for many Stone Butches and Transmen to get to that place--which in any logical reading serves as notice that all Stone Butches and Transmen are NOT in the same place at the same time.

If you choose to read some sort of blanket statement into my post despite my acknowledgement of this, then you are choosing to ignore the reality of what I actually said.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

I suspected that I knew what you meant, and that others might as well, but I wanted it to be damn clear, just as your response to me here has been infinitely more qualifying than your original post.

No, it hasn't. I said the same thing twice. You simply didn't see it until the second time, I suspect because the second time I was speaking directly to you instead of to Converse.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

Your original statements were far more general than these. Had you posted this way initially, I wouldn't have been compelled to say what I did.

My original statements were not general, they were a direct answer to someone else's post. Had I posted this way initially, I would have been speaking to you instead of to Converse, but it was Converse who was speaking to me, and it was my choice to answer.

It seems you missed that context.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

My reply had nothing to do with presumed ignorance, and everything to do with clarity. You have met some evolved individuals, but there is no correlation between their gender/sexual identity and their emotional evolution as a general condition. I simply wanted to make that very clear, otherwise, the implication is that others (with different identities) are less so (which I'm sure you would recognize as being offensive).

Since when is the universe such a binary place that a simple acknowledgement of one kind of person automatically tarnishes all other people?

Let us be EXTREMELY clear, here: that is YOUR attitude and not mine. You are the one who is stating that if people state they value something, they are automatically devaluing everything else; you are the one who is not allowing for people's ability to value many things at the same time.

In MY universe, there are exemplary people everywhere. There is no either/or; I will not nor have I EVER stated, insinuated, or implied that if one kind of person is good all other kinds of people are bad or somehow "less than." Anyone who can read such a heinously limited and limiting thought in a simple acknowledgement that the Stone Butches and Transmen who attract me have self-awareness and confidence is reading what they wish or expect to see instead of reading what I actually said.

Again I repeat, it is YOUR assumption that if people say they value one kind of person, that statement automatically devalues all other kinds of persons. Your very binary either/or assumption has nothing to do with the reality of my post.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

If, as individuals, we are able to reach a state in which our emotional maturity and our gender/sexual identity are on parallel tracks, then we are fortunate creatures, indeed.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

I do very much appreciate the opportunity to engage in this dialogue, thank you.

It doesn't seem like a dialogue to me. It seems like I am being taken to task for things which I have not said--being forced to defend my words and even my attitudes, instead of being allowed to participate in the conversation. I dislike being "schooled," most especially when it derails the conversation and discourages other people from posting.

You might wish to consider that had you simply posted, "Self-awareness takes a lot of hard work" or "I haven't found that all Stone Butches are self-aware and confident," or some such similarly non-judgmental statement that I would have most willingly engaged in an entirely more pleasant dialogue with you.

[Legendryder]

In reading this thread, I can only put in my personal perspective on the topic. For myself, I DO id as Stone Butch. For myself, it is less about how much self-awareness I have as to how I walk through life. It is a bit difficult to explain for me for some reason. The best example for me is the type of woman I am attracted to. Very femme. Very Southern, ie demure, respectful, old school ect. Not that I like door mats. If you know anything about Southern women that is the last thing you could possibly describe them as. Quietly fierce is more like it. What is odd for my situation is I felt I was overlooked as a masculine woman because I am quite thin, small boned and was described when I was young as pretty. I didn't feel I was taken seriously in the B/F world because of these things. I spent most of my youth being hyper aggressive, drunk and angry. I liken it to attempting to "feel my size". I didn't feel like a "real" Butch, because I did not think I looked like one. So, I fought against my own notions and sterotypes of what a Butch should look like, act like and just be. This is the main reason I took so far, nine years of abtainance from the dating pool. I was just flailing about and unfit for human consumption. Something I have learned is I have to define me. For me. I know there are some that will rail about being put in a box. For me it is knowing who I am. For me. I had to become selfish to be selfless I suppose. It has taken me a long time to get some comfort inside myself. I will never be one of those big Butch women that I always thought I should be. Hell, I am 5' 8" tall and weigh 130 pounds. I am a stick. *shrug* So what? I still look like me. A little older yeah. But, inside, I am a big masculine Butch. But, finally, I do not have to be a total tool to prove it. That in and of its self is such a relief. I was really tired of getting my ass kicked. The main point is I found myself. How I feel. How I define me. I simply am a Stone Butch because that is who I am.

[Chazz]

Thank your for this post.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

I've read this thread a little here and there, and have largely held off posting because:

1) I don't at this point in my life identify as stone butch, though there was a time in which I did.

This has been my experience. I identified as "stone butch" for 14 years, through two relationships, then this happened:

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

Hello Stoners...

I guess I am going against the grain here and saying I don't understand limiting your dating pool by what someone has wanted or wanted in sex. I could never not want to be with someone because of what they want or don't want sexually, I suppose if that would be a dealbreaker for me ( I can't even imagine) it would be different.

I guess I just don't see what is wrong with two people getting together and discovering what energy/magic/vibes they get off each other and rolling with it. The way I have been with one lover does not define how I will be with another lover.

It all just seems so predefined. I'm trying to understand I suppose.

Yep, that's what happened to me alright. My partner and I rolled with it and came out in a new place, together, and individually.

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

One commonly held belief is that "stone butch" came about to refer to butches that were "stone cold butch;" the most butch among butches - those who were most masculine (and I pointedly state "masculine" not male).

This is the definition to which I have always held.

Ah, the hierarchy of butch-ness.... Agreed, that is a very common definition. I subscribed to it myself for many years.

I guess I'm an exception to that definition (assumption?). I look, behave, live, am taken for, butcher than butch, but I no longer ID as stone.

(I suspect there are a great many more butches like me than is commonly thought.)



But, back to this:

Originally Posted by sassy_girl

...I guess I just don't see what is wrong with two people getting together and discovering what energy/magic/vibes they get off each other and rolling with it. The way I have been with one lover does not define how I will be with another lover.

This is precisely what happened to me. Imagine my surprise !

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

This is the definition to which I have always held. It refers to a butch who is unwavering in their identity, and in their presentation of self; one who would never sacrifice their personal sense of comfort, well being and identity in order to bend to the wishes of others, whether seeking a job, dealing with family, or a sexual partner. This definition, for me, includes no particular reference to sex/sexuality, but allows for each stone butch to define for themselves what their comfort level is and how they are going to hold that line - in all aspects of their life. Technically, that means a stone butch could be quite "free" sexually, including open to anal penetration or oral sex, for example.

But not just stone butches - all butches. Oh yeah, and femmes, too.

Hierarchies suck.

[cuddlyfemme]

Good Morning all you wonderful and handsome Stone Butches!!!

[stonebutchinpa]

Originally Posted by cuddlyfemme

Good Morning all you wonderful and handsome Stone Butches!!!

Good afternoon Cuddly!

[cuddlyfemme]

Originally Posted by stonebutchinpa

Good afternoon Cuddly!

Hows it going? I was starting to think my post ran everyone out of here lol

[stonebutchinpa]

Just got back from a bad date where the woman I was with told me that being with someone "like me" aka a stone made her feel like she wasn't a lesbian anymore, I took her lesbian identity and made her feel straight?!?!

I completely understand that everyone has their opinion, but I clearly told her who I was waaaayyy before we started dating.

I just want to thank the femme woman out there who love and appreciate us stone butches.

[morningstar55]

Originally Posted by stonebutchinpa

Just got back from a bad date where the woman I was with told me that being with someone "like me" aka a stone made her feel like she wasn't a lesbian anymore, I took her lesbian identity and made her feel straight?!?!

I completely understand that everyone has their opinion, but I clearly told her who I was waaaayyy before we started dating.

I just want to thank the femme woman out there who love and appreciate us stone butches.

I dont understand .... why someone continues to date someone when they know way way before hand .. what type the person is ... maybe she thought she could change you somewhere down the road..

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by stonebutchinpa

Just got back from a bad date where the woman I was with told me that being with someone "like me" aka a stone made her feel like she wasn't a lesbian anymore, I took her lesbian identity and made her feel straight?!?!

I completely understand that everyone has their opinion, but I clearly told her who I was waaaayyy before we started dating.

I just want to thank the femme woman out there who love and appreciate us stone butches.

I'm sorry this happened. At some point you will find a woman who WANTS this in her butch.

That is the difference, I think, and I mentioned it earlier. I would only want to be with a woman who DESIRED a butch like myself, not one that is "ok" with me being stone.

I want that part of me to be something she prefers in a partner, not something she "accepts" in a partner.

[cuddlyfemme]

Originally Posted by stonebutchinpa

Just got back from a bad date where the woman I was with told me that being with someone "like me" aka a stone made her feel like she wasn't a lesbian anymore, I took her lesbian identity and made her feel straight?!?!

I completely understand that everyone has their opinion, but I clearly told her who I was waaaayyy before we started dating.

I just want to thank the femme woman out there who love and appreciate us stone butches.

I'm really sorry that this happened to you You were up front with her so its not like she didn't know. I've been in relationships where the butch thought hy could "change" me....not gonna happen in this lifetime!

I am glad you realize that there are femme's that love and appreciate all you wonderful, handsome stone butches. Nothing gets me going like a stone butch does!

[Converse]

Originally Posted by stonebutchinpa

Just got back from a bad date where the woman I was with told me that being with someone "like me" aka a stone made her feel like she wasn't a lesbian anymore, I took her lesbian identity and made her feel straight?!?!

I completely understand that everyone has their opinion, but I clearly told her who I was waaaayyy before we started dating.

I just want to thank the femme woman out there who love and appreciate us stone butches.

It’s who we are, and sexually it’s a part of the whole. I don’t think that some realize that when they ask for a part of us to change- that it cant happen without it altering everything else about us. It’s hard to hear, to hear that something about the way we are is in someway depriving or diminishing some one we care about. I’ve stood in your shoes, and I’ve tried to tolerate, tried to make this “one” concession. I’ve allowed myself to believe that I am somehow less than, that it is some kind of hurdle that I have to jump, that if I wanted a woman in my bed that ‘lesbian – take it in turns” sex was part of the deal.

I’ve been with the women who claim that they are attracted to the energy, to the hardness, to an edginess, a confidence, to something they say seems a little remote, a little self-contained- and then in a short period of time I’ve experienced those same women talk of wanting to expose the underbelly, of seeking some compliance and pliability, of wanting to experience the girl behind the Butch. It’s as though there is a belief that a Stone Butch is simply a façade, a layer of clothing, that gets worn and removed at will, but what many don’t understand is that it is not a veneer - so when it is removed- there is nothing of our true selves left.

I have attempted to accommodate a sex as they have “always done it”- and as a consequence have had to accept the lack of sexual gratification, but more importantly suffered from a sense of “loosing myself” because of it.

And then I discovered a stone Femme, and suddenly knew what it was like to fly high.

Neither of you are wrong or imperfect, but like most things in life we need to find our compliment, because just as a mismatch can cause us to loose ourselves, the right one can help us take air. I wish you well.