Ode to Butches

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by apretty

yes, that struck me as well--such vastly different responses, i have to say it points to an element of homophobia... at the very least, male-phobia--i wonder why that dynamic is so uncomfortable for members.

We're GAY !lol.

[Kosmo]

Originally Posted by apretty

some of us are bi. some of us do love men, bio and otherwise. i just don't get rejecting men, categorically. i mean, the most my 'disinterest' gets is a 'shrug' --but there's something to all this *outrage* --that's what i don't get and find fascinating.

I find it fascinating that you feel there is all this 'outrage'. Here in this thread?

As for those that are bi, I would hope they feel free to comment on how they find the 'ode' flattering.

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by Kosmo

Hello Hudson,

As I posted, there are slight differences. I could post them, but what would be the point here in this thread? The differences are enough to differentiate the two. Whether one is more welcome than the other is strictly, in my opinion (for myself), where the 'ode' originates from. That is the privilege of the person receiving the 'ode' as to whether or not it is welcomed. We are each different in what we consider flattering or insulting.

This seems important to you and, if you would be open to it, I would gladly PM you the differences of the 'ode's.

Hi Kosmo,

The slight variations in the odes themselves are unimportant to me. What is curious to me is the homophobia and transphobia (as some gay or bi trans men are attracted to butches) inherent within. I totally get butches having zero interest in the admiration/attraction of a straight man (who doesn't see them as masculine beings - hello). For me personally, I have no attraction to anyone masculine - males, females, butches, etc but I am not repulsed or threatened by their admiration/attraction of and to me. As long as they see me as the guy I am, I find it validating. If they were to see me differently and insist that I'm other than who I say I am, then that would be unwanted. Again, it's not important to me, I have no agenda - it's just an observation.

[Kosmo]

This is an 'ode to Butches' thread . Any takers?

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Why are butch women supposed to welcome some long ode allegedly written by a man in a personal ad and supposed to want to discuss it on a butch femme website?

You're not. But an 'ode to butches', no matter by whom it was written, is appropriate subject matter for a butch/femme website. Where better to discuss it? Someplace that would not handle it with the same knowledge and respect? And why do you feel the need to monitor and control what other people want to discuss just because you don't?

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by Kosmo

This is an 'ode to Butches' thread . Any takers?

I think they're awesome and badass.

But then, I'm a dude.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Hudson

You're not. But an 'ode to butches', no matter by whom it was written, is appropriate subject matter for a butch/femme website. Where better to discuss it? Someplace that would not handle it with the same knowledge and respect? And why do you feel the need to monitor and control what other people want to discuss just because you don't?

Why do you keep insisting on discussing it when no butch woman has shown an interest.

[Hudson]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Why do you keep insisting on discussing it when no butch woman has shown an interest.

Edit: it was a personal ad, not something I need to handle with knowledge and respect.

In case you didn't notice (maybe she was invisible) there was a femme in the discussion.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Hudson

In case you didn't notice (maybe she was invisible) there was a femme in the discussion.

Oh so a femme and a trans guy want to discuss how butch women are homophobic and transphobic because a man (didn't say he was trans) wrote an ode and we aren't interested in talking about and are not flattered.

[Kosmo]

Originally Posted by Hudson

Hi Kosmo,

The slight variations in the odes themselves are unimportant to me. What is curious to me is the homophobia and transphobia (as some gay or bi trans men are attracted to butches) inherent within. I totally get butches having zero interest in the admiration/attraction of a straight man (who doesn't see them as masculine beings - hello). For me personally, I have no attraction to anyone masculine - males, females, butches, etc but I am not repulsed or threatened by their admiration/attraction of and to me. As long as they see me as the guy I am, I find it validating. If they were to see me differently and insist that I'm other than who I say I am, then that would be unwanted. Again, it's not important to me, I have no agenda - it's just an observation.

Hi ya, Hudson

I thought when you and I PM'd about 'the ode, that of which we will not speak' (here is where you chuckle), that I gave you an example that you understood. I don't know about other butches, but the thought of being penetrated and fucked, and pleasured by a man (really? Pleasured?) is in no way validating to me, as a Butch. If that paints me as male-phobic? Then baby, I'll paint my whole f-n' body.

[apretty]

Originally Posted by Kosmo

Hi ya, Hudson

I thought when you and I PM'd about 'the ode, that of which we will not speak' (here is where you chuckle), that I gave you an example that you understood. I don't know about other butches, but the thought of being penetrated and fucked, and pleasured by a man (really? Pleasured?) is in no way validating to me, as a Butch. If that paints me as male-phobic? Then baby, I'll paint by whole f-n' body.

you don't seem to be in the market for that sort of thing, regardless.

[Kosmo]

Originally Posted by June

Simmer down, please. If you have beefs with one another, take it private or choose to disengage. It's starting to escalate in here.

--June

Posted my last same time as you, June. I'm going to have a nice cup of tea now.

[NotAnAverageGuy]

I personally do not see anything wrong with a man posting an ode to a butch woman.

I have lots of bio male friends and trans friends who love butch women, as friends or more. I think if someone or a class of people are being complimented, take it as a compliment and move on in life, it just shows that y'all are appreciated.

[Kosmo]

Originally Posted by Hudson

I think they're awesome and badass.

But then, I'm a dude.

Thank you for this 'ode', Hudson. As short as it is, it speaks volumes to me and I'm jonesing for an 'ode'.

I hug you {{Hudson}}

[Kosmo]

Originally Posted by apretty

you don't seem to be in the market for that sort of thing, regardless.

Hi apretty,

You are correct. I am not in the market and that is why I wouldn't have responded to the ad, but when the link was posted in the thread it was posted in, then I have the right to post a response. And while I don't identify strictly as female/feminine or male/masculine identified, I do have a voice and I think I will start using it.

[Outlaw]

Originally Posted by NotAnAverageGuy

I personally do not see anything wrong with a man posting an ode to a butch woman.

I have lots of bio male friends and trans friends who love butch women, as friends or more. I think if someone or a class of people are being complimented, take it as a compliment and move on in life, it just shows that y'all are appreciated.

I think "someone or a class of people" get to decide individually and collectively what is complimentary and what is not.

Speaking only for myself and my butchness... I get to choose individually... if and by whom... I allow my butchness to be objectified by...

[NotAnAverageGuy]

Originally Posted by Outlaw

I think "someone or a class of people" get to decide individually and collectively what is complimentary and what is not.

Speaking only for myself and my butchness... I get to choose individually... if and by whom... I allow my butchness to be objectified by...

I understand but my point is who doesn't like to know they are appreciated?

[Waldo]

For fucks sake.

Am I reading this right? That we (whether butch, femme or trans) aren't supposed to consider this a valid communication because it originated from a bio man/male?

If that logic is to be followed then we should probably shut down or heavily moderate the "Tap It" thread so that no celebrity who isn't receptive to the advances of a butch, femme, trans or genderqueer person is discussed.

One of the unifying aspects of this site is sexuality. And this certainly falls into that category. Granted, it's not something we discuss often, but it fits.

It's okay that it's not your cuppa tea, but it might be right up the alley of those who want to expand their thoughts about what attracts one person to another.

For me personally it always amuses/confuses me when a guy finds me attractive, but I'm always flattered. And showing appreciation for my physical appearance isn't always about objectification.

/soapbox

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by Waldo

For fucks sake.

Am I reading this right? That we (whether butch, femme or trans) aren't supposed to consider this a valid communication because it originated from a bio man/male?

If that logic is to be followed then we should probably shut down or heavily moderate the "Tap It" thread so that no celebrity who isn't receptive to the advances of a butch, femme, trans or genderqueer person is discussed.

One of the unifying aspects of this site is sexuality. And this certainly falls into that category. Granted, it's not something we discuss often, but it fits.

It's okay that it's not your cuppa tea, but it might be right up the alley of those who want to expand their thoughts about what attracts one person to another.

For me personally it always amuses/confuses me when a guy finds me attractive, but I'm always flattered. And showing appreciation for my physical appearance isn't always about objectification.

/soapbox

I don't think anyone said la-la's ode was written by a man.
So, for fuck's sake, no- you are not reading this right!

They are talking about some straight guy's craigslist ad that most of us haven't read. (And don't really care to).
Clear as mud?

[Waldo]

That's what I get for skimming.

For fucks sake.

(it's the phrase of the day)