Clothes do not Maketh the butch ....

[The_Lady_Snow]

Butch is a gender no? The shell does not represent gender, that's just me

[Merlin]

People argue with me here butch is a look not a gender, I also get told I chose to be this way ..

[Corkey]

Merlin, clothes don't make anyone any gender, one is who one is and those who can't or wont accept you for you need a checklist for their own BS. K?

We all are who we are and those who matter could give a rats ass, and those who don't, you don't give a second thought to. SSWA (so say we all).

You be the best HUMAN you can and to hockey pucks what anyone else thinks.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Even if the whole world were suddenly forced to wear tinfoil jumpsuits every day for the rest of eternity, butches would still be butches. Same with everyone else continuing to be whatever they might identify as. Butch is an identity, not a pair of jeans or a hair cut.

Yup- an identity, an attitude... whatever one wants it to be for themselves!

Originally Posted by Legendryder

My take on clothing is I refuse to look like a slob. Unless of course I am out working on the bike or car or mowing the lawn. I dress neatly. Period. I will not wear clothes with holes, no matter how trendy it might be. I prefer men's button shirts, not because they are men's, but because they just fit better. I have long arms and legs, women's clothes do not fit me. I also have no boobs to speak of, so those darts just look silly. Just sayin'.

I wear a mix of clothing- some men's. some women's- I agree, what fits and I feel good in, is the key. Also, I am with you about sloppiness- but, sure, when doing yardwork, house panting, etc., I wear my grungies. Don't care for the sloppy look on anyone- butch/trans/femme... hets... anyone! probably a bias of mine, but, grooming is something I do notice.

Originally Posted by Corkey

Merlin, clothes don't make anyone any gender, one is who one is and those who can't or wont accept you for you need a checklist for their own BS. K?

We all are who we are and those who matter could give a rats ass, and those who don't, you don't give a second thought to. SSWA (so say we all).

You be the best HUMAN you can and to hockey pucks what anyone else thinks.

Yeah!! Wear what you like and feel comfy in!

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by Legendryder

My take on clothing is I refuse to look like a slob. Unless of course I am out working on the bike or car or mowing the lawn. I dress neatly. Period. I will not wear clothes with holes, no matter how trendy it might be. I prefer men's button shirts, not because they are men's, but because they just fit better. I have long arms and legs, women's clothes do not fit me. I also have no boobs to speak of, so those darts just look silly. Just sayin'.

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

I wear a mix of clothing- some men's. some women's- I agree, what fits and I feel good in, is the key. Also, I am with you about sloppiness- but, sure, when doing yardwork, house panting, etc., I wear my grungies. Don't care for the sloppy look on anyone- butch/trans/femme... hets... anyone! probably a bias of mine, but, grooming is something I do notice.

Alright, just wanna jump in because there seems to be a reoccuring "anti-'sloppy'" theme on these forums, lol. Seriously, I understand if you all don't like to dress a certain way, but why does it have to come down to commenting about how other's might choose to dress, even if it is "sloppy" in your books? Is a person in a pair of slacks and a polo automatically "better" than a person in torn up jeans and a sleeveless shirt? Also, there's a difference in grooming/hygiene and the clothing a person chooses to wear. Just because I have multiple holes in my pair of camos, or the bottoms of my jeans are shredded to shit, doesn't mean I'm unhygienic. Sheesh, people

From the mouths of the greats:

Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes. - Henry David Thoreau

It is an interesting question how far men would retain their relative rank if they were divested of their clothes. - Henry David Thoreau

Sell your clothes and keep your thoughts. - Henry David Thoreau

He also has a great one from Walden where he goes on rant on how it's idiotic that a man is looked down upon if he walks into town with a hole in the knee of his pants, yet if he had a broken leg no one would care. Why does a hole in the knee of his pants speak of his character? It shouldn't.

If most of us are ashamed of shabby clothes and shoddy furniture, let us be more ashamed of shabby ideas and shoddy philosophies... It would be a sad situation if the wrapper were better than the meat wrapped inside it. - Albert Einstein

In fact, that one just might be new sig material lol

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

Yeah!! Wear what you like and feel comfy in!

Exactly To me, dress "neatly" if you want to dress that way. Dress in a suit every day of your life if you want. Dress in sweatpants every day if you want. Walk around in a brown paper bag for all I care, lol.

Cheers,

Ender, King of shabby clothing

[Daywalker]

I can be seen about the neighborhood wearing jammies
under mah long black jackets. No socks, slip on Zombie
shoes...and barely a rake thru mah mane.


I clean up good when I care to,
but the rest of the time it's all about my comfort.


Oh, and winter time I wear huge puffy gorilla
and talon slippers to the store.


So there.

It's funny, I met up with a gaydargirl I've chatted with for years the other day and she thought it highly amusing, and was surprised for some reason, that I was wearing a pink tshirt. Apparently only girls wear pink!

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Alright, just wanna jump in because there seems to be a reoccuring "anti-'sloppy'" theme on these forums, lol. Seriously, I understand if you all don't like to dress a certain way, but why does it have to come down to commenting about how other's might choose to dress, even if it is "sloppy" in your books? Is a person in a pair of slacks and a polo automatically "better" than a person in torn up jeans and a sleeveless shirt? Also, there's a difference in grooming/hygiene and the clothing a person chooses to wear. Just because I have multiple holes in my pair of camos, or the bottoms of my jeans are shredded to shit, doesn't mean I'm unhygienic. Sheesh, people

From the mouths of the greats:

Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes. - Henry David Thoreau

It is an interesting question how far men would retain their relative rank if they were divested of their clothes. - Henry David Thoreau

Sell your clothes and keep your thoughts. - Henry David Thoreau

He also has a great one from Walden where he goes on rant on how it's idiotic that a man is looked down upon if he walks into town with a hole in the knee of his pants, yet if he had a broken leg no one would care. Why does a hole in the knee of his pants speak of his character? It shouldn't.

If most of us are ashamed of shabby clothes and shoddy furniture, let us be more ashamed of shabby ideas and shoddy philosophies... It would be a sad situation if the wrapper were better than the meat wrapped inside it. - Albert Einstein

In fact, that one just might be new sig material lol



Exactly To me, dress "neatly" if you want to dress that way. Dress in a suit every day of your life if you want. Dress in sweatpants every day if you want. Walk around in a brown paper bag for all I care, lol.

Cheers,

Ender, King of shabby clothing

Really good points!

Ripped up jeans can be hot.

[Corkey]

Today it's a tee shirt( size matters fishin') and shorts kinda day in mah slippers, I walk to and from the trash cans and all about our yard. I could care less what others think of my get up.

[Legendryder]

Originally Posted by EnderD_503

Alright, just wanna jump in because there seems to be a reoccuring "anti-'sloppy'" theme on these forums, lol. Seriously, I understand if you all don't like to dress a certain way, but why does it have to come down to commenting about how other's might choose to dress, even if it is "sloppy" in your books? Is a person in a pair of slacks and a polo automatically "better" than a person in torn up jeans and a sleeveless shirt? Also, there's a difference in grooming/hygiene and the clothing a person chooses to wear. Just because I have multiple holes in my pair of camos, or the bottoms of my jeans are shredded to shit, doesn't mean I'm unhygienic. Sheesh, people

From the mouths of the greats:

Distrust any enterprise that requires new clothes. - Henry David Thoreau

It is an interesting question how far men would retain their relative rank if they were divested of their clothes. - Henry David Thoreau

Sell your clothes and keep your thoughts. - Henry David Thoreau

He also has a great one from Walden where he goes on rant on how it's idiotic that a man is looked down upon if he walks into town with a hole in the knee of his pants, yet if he had a broken leg no one would care. Why does a hole in the knee of his pants speak of his character? It shouldn't.

If most of us are ashamed of shabby clothes and shoddy furniture, let us be more ashamed of shabby ideas and shoddy philosophies... It would be a sad situation if the wrapper were better than the meat wrapped inside it. - Albert Einstein

In fact, that one just might be new sig material lol



Exactly To me, dress "neatly" if you want to dress that way. Dress in a suit every day of your life if you want. Dress in sweatpants every day if you want. Walk around in a brown paper bag for all I care, lol.

Cheers,

Ender, King of shabby clothing

Well, since the very first post of this here deal was how important clothes are to you, it seems that all these "anti-sloppy" people are saying they are pretty darn important. At least that is what I was posting to that is. I also could give a flip what everyone else wears. I can tell you this though, I will not date a messy woman. Messy bed, messy head.

Originally Posted by Merlin

People argue with me here butch is a look not a gender, I also get told I chose to be this way ..

I'd be very surprised if anyone in the bf community over on this side of the pond have said that butch is not a gender! People in mainstream lezzer-land would possibly say such a thing though.

[Merlin]

They have to me doc.

Originally Posted by Merlin

They have to me doc.

Really Merlin? I can't say I've ever heard that from any of the bf community I know here.

[EnderD_503]

Even if the whole world were suddenly forced to wear tinfoil jumpsuits every day for the rest of eternity, butches would still be butches. Same with everyone else continuing to be whatever they might identify as. Butch is an identity, not a pair of jeans or a hair cut.

[Legendryder]

My take on clothing is I refuse to look like a slob. Unless of course I am out working on the bike or car or mowing the lawn. I dress neatly. Period. I will not wear clothes with holes, no matter how trendy it might be. I prefer men's button shirts, not because they are men's, but because they just fit better. I have long arms and legs, women's clothes do not fit me. I also have no boobs to speak of, so those darts just look silly. Just sayin'.

[Lynn]

Originally Posted by Incubus

Really Merlin? I can't say I've ever heard that from any of the bf community I know here.

My partner, a butch, would say it. She'd say that butch could be *your* gender, but she doesn't count it as hers. Why is it necessary to speak for the entire "bf community"? The beauty of this site, for me, has been acceptance of each other, not defining one another. Conversely, I've been told by several in the broader b-f world (maybe on here or not?) that I am not a femme, I'm a lesbian, as if they can't both be part of my identity. People tell people what to be all the time, it seems, including when they declare that no one would say butch is not a gender. Why is that any less narrowing than saying it always is??

And, on topic, I don't think that clothing has to be limited by the person's gender identity, or other identities. But, doesn't it usually say something about how the person prefers to present themselves to the world? And, don't people usually want to be "gotten" and understood? I'm no less of a femme in jeans and a t-shirt, because who I am shows through the clothing. At the same time, unlike my partner, I buy all my clothing in the women's department. She enjoys her masculinity and likes to be identified with it. She'll be unlikely to ever wear a dress or high heels.

[Bit]

Originally Posted by Merlin

People argue with me here butch is a look not a gender, I also get told I chose to be this way ..

How dismissive. I'm sorry that's happened to you.

In my experience over on this side of the pond, people have said such things--or the equivalent: that a femme cannot wear men's clothing without magically turning herself into a butch--because they have rigid ideas about the meaning of "butch" and "femme." Some people have been open to a discussion and to broadening that definition; some people have used it as a wall of defense to avoid talking about it, a way to categorize and dismiss me.

Mostly these days I don't run into such nonsense anymore. Hope it gets better for you, too.

[Apocalipstic]

People sometimes give way too much of their opinion! So sorry people tell you you should dress this way or that. It happened to me too in my younger days, now I just refuse to engage.

Do clothes make the Butch? no.

Do I love to be out with a well dressed Butch? Hell yes!

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by Bit

In my experience over on this side of the pond, people have said such things--or the equivalent: that a femme cannot wear men's clothing without magically turning herself into a butch--because they have rigid ideas about the meaning of "butch" and "femme." Some people have been open to a discussion and to broadening that definition; some people have used it as a wall of defense to avoid talking about it, a way to categorize and dismiss me.

~smiles~

These people have obviously NEVER seen me in men's clothing. I have a sexy as Hell, black on black suit that I wear when I want to attract extra attention and I can assure you that I have never been mistaken for a butch woman.

Ideas should be flexible, and minds open.

[Chazz]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Butch is a gender no? The shell does not represent gender, that's just me

Butch shells?

Where does one shop to get these shells?

And me thinking skinny jeans and Harley boots would do.