Possible Triggering: Violence against butches.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by HowSoonIsNow

A little over five years (pre-transitioned) ago my husband got kidney punched--hard--in Orlando at The House of Blues b/c these guys saw him with three attractive women and they HATED it. He could not see, obviously, who did it b/c it was from behind.

He reported it to security (off-duty police), but that off-duty guy didnt give jack shit and looked at Daniel with disgust.

(These words are largely Daniel's)

I do have to say, now that he is recognized as a man, he has no issues with harrassment and gets actual *nods* from men instead. That is deserving of another thread entirely--I have seen it.

This brings back a couple of situations that happened to me with straight me that had a problem with my being with a woman (femme) that obviously they just could not fathom being a lesbian. In fact, this was the circunstance of my being jumped by 3 men as we left a club. They were waiting for us outside. It was very scary for both of us. I was hit over the head with a broken beer bottle. Mt gf at the time feared being raped by them- so did I. Lucky for us, a group of people (mixed straights, gays and lesbians) came out and intervened. One ran back inside and asked the bartender to call the police. LOL.. back in the day, before cell phones!

I actually had something like this happen recently- although I was not hit. But the husband of a woman I befriended at my local dog park got riled when she introduced me one day. Later, as I got to know her better, she told me she is bisexual and they have an open marriage. But he can't stand to see her with a woman that is or could be a lover. Yikes! I just enjoy walking and talking with her with our dogs. I'm fine with their marriage agrements and her bisexuality, but, have no interest in getting involved with her. Not in my comfort zone. But even now, if I am walking with her and he shows up at the park, his whole demeanor changes. I did talk to her about this and the fact that it makes me uncomfortable- she said she told him we are not lovers. I don't know about that. But she has not tried to pursue a sexual relationship with me after I made it clear that I wasn't interested. Who knows- I only run into her every month or so.

[Quintease]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

she is bisexual and they have an open marriage. But he can't stand to see her with a woman that is or could be a lover. Yikes! I just enjoy walking and talking with her with our dogs. I'm fine with their marriage agrements and her bisexuality, but, have no interest in getting involved with her. Not in my comfort zone. But even now, if I am walking with her and he shows up at the park, his whole demeanor changes.

Doesn't sound very open to me.

[Merlin]

Can I also add that some butches may not identify as female butches, you wear the skin your given. I am biologically female though my entire being to the core including thoughts is male identified.

I believe I am gender dysphoric,not on the scale of transition as I am happy to live my day to day life as a male in appearance. I don't need T or an operation to pass,I live my life how I want.

I have no body clock ticking,no yearning to embrace my womanhood .. I get told I should be a feminist .. That I should embrace it .. That people died for women's vote etc etc ..

People have died all the way through history,over race,religion,orientation,disability and war !!

I am thankful for stonewall for what my gay ancestors went through in history ..

There is always going to be someone who wants you dead .. Or someone who hates you .. Or someone you will never see eye to eye with.

But ain't that life ?

[afixer]

it's happened enough to me at my current address that i'm considering moving.

[dykeumentary]

Very interesting thread. Here is my possibly triggering reply.

I have been attacked several times in my life, and one aspect of this that i don't think has been covered in this thread is how class intersects with violence against butches. I have had many dirty, hard, physical labor jobs, and so dress in work clothes that appear to be "gender non-conforming" even if that's what makes sense for that kind of work. Also, I am out as a butch lesbian. This has enraged many working class guys to the point of wanted to harm me. Because of the financial circumstances at different times in my life, environmental conditions were advantageous to men who wanted to hurt or kill me (physical isolation from someone who might help, noisy industrial places where my yells for help couldnt be heard, not enough light to see who the people were, co-workers afraid to lose their jobs in support of me, etc.) For example, I have been beaten at construction sites where I worked, and also beaten as I had to walk home late at night (bus lines had stopped). Being a poor woman is just more dangerous generally. There is no heirarchy of oppression; its just that 'the way things are' makes poor women more vulnerable physically, and then they have fewer options for there to be support, or even legal recourse after the attacks. Heaven help the poor _________ . (fill in the blank with your favorite deviant).

(Side note: Domestic worker rights are queer rights -- Congrats to domestic workers for the victories lately!)

And here's an odd one: Once I was getting beaten up, the men were hitting and kicking me and yelling "fucking dyke!" the whole time. Some men came running over to help, and because of them the attackers were arrested. The police report of the incident (that I had to sign while strapped to a back/neck board in the hospital) didn't include any of that language from during the attack. I asked the officer, and he said "I didn't want to embarass your family." Go figure.

[AtLast]

[QUOTE=dykeumentary;348945]Very interesting thread. Here is my possibly triggering reply.

I have been attacked several times in my life, and one aspect of this that i don't think has been covered in this thread is how class intersects with violence against butches. I have had many dirty, hard, physical labor jobs, and so dress in work clothes that appear to be "gender non-conforming" even if that's what makes sense for that kind of work. Also, I am out as a butch lesbian. This has enraged many working class guys to the point of wanted to harm me. Because of the financial circumstances at different times in my life, environmental conditions were advantageous to men who wanted to hurt or kill me (physical isolation from someone who might help, noisy industrial places where my yells for help couldnt be heard, not enough light to see who the people were, co-workers afraid to lose their jobs in support of me, etc.) For example, I have been beaten at construction sites where I worked, and also beaten as I had to walk home late at night (bus lines had stopped). Being a poor woman is just more dangerous generally. There is no heirarchy of oppression; its just that 'the way things are' makes poor women more vulnerable physically, and then they have fewer options for there to be support, or even legal recourse after the attacks. Heaven help the poor _________ . (fill in the blank with your favorite deviant).

(Side note: Domestic worker rights are queer rights -- Congrats to domestic workers for the victories lately!)

And here's an odd one: Once I was getting beaten up, the men were hitting and kicking me and yelling "fucking dyke!" the whole time. Some men came running over to help, and because of them the attackers were arrested. The police report of the incident (that I had to sign while strapped to a back/neck board in the hospital) didn't include any of that language from during the attack. I asked the officer, and he said "I didn't want to embarass your family." Go figure.[/QUOTE]

Shit!

Class seems to be forgotten often in our discussions, I think. Time we changed this.

[Merlin]

I liked my thread title better.

What does the triggering thing mean ?

[Gemme]

Originally Posted by Merlin

I liked my thread title better.

What does the triggering thing mean ?

There were one or two posts that had some fairly explicit stuff that could possibly be triggering for someone reading it. It just means that those coming into this thread know that there has been some stuff that may or may not bring up some painful memories for them.

[Queerasfck]

Originally Posted by Merlin

I liked my thread title better.

What does the triggering thing mean ?

Triggering means it might cause emotional harm to some readers by it's contents.

When you start a thread you should think about the impact it might have or what results you wish to achieve. It shouldn't just be for "shock" value. I'm curious--did you just want everyone to share their experiences or are you looking for something else?

[asphaltcowboi]

Originally Posted by dykeumentary

Very interesting thread. Here is my possibly triggering reply.

I have been attacked several times in my life, and one aspect of this that i don't think has been covered in this thread is how class intersects with violence against butches. I have had many dirty, hard, physical labor jobs, and so dress in work clothes that appear to be "gender non-conforming" even if that's what makes sense for that kind of work. Also, I am out as a butch lesbian. This has enraged many working class guys to the point of wanted to harm me. Because of the financial circumstances at different times in my life, environmental conditions were advantageous to men who wanted to hurt or kill me (physical isolation from someone who might help, noisy industrial places where my yells for help couldnt be heard, not enough light to see who the people were, co-workers afraid to lose their jobs in support of me, etc.) For example, I have been beaten at construction sites where I worked, and also beaten as I had to walk home late at night (bus lines had stopped). Being a poor woman is just more dangerous generally. There is no heirarchy of oppression; its just that 'the way things are' makes poor women more vulnerable physically, and then they have fewer options for there to be support, or even legal recourse after the attacks. Heaven help the poor _________ . (fill in the blank with your favorite deviant).

(Side note: Domestic worker rights are queer rights -- Congrats to domestic workers for the victories lately!)

And here's an odd one: Once I was getting beaten up, the men were hitting and kicking me and yelling "fucking dyke!" the whole time. Some men came running over to help, and because of them the attackers were arrested. The police report of the incident (that I had to sign while strapped to a back/neck board in the hospital) didn't include any of that language from during the attack. I asked the officer, and he said "I didn't want to embarass your family." Go figure.

i would like to add a little to this great post.. it has seemed to me beeing a butch that has always worked in male dom fields it seemed the better i was at my job the more i would be bashed/targeted by my male co-workers.
i dont think its quite as bad today as it was in my bar curousing days but gay establishments were always in back alleys in bad neiborhoods. witch made us easy targets for haters.

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by cody

i would like to add a little to this great post.. it has seemed to me beeing a butch that has always worked in male dom fields it seemed the better i was at my job the more i would be bashed/targeted by my male co-workers.
i dont think its quite as bad today as it was in my bar curousing days but gay establishments were always in back alleys in bad neiborhoods. witch made us easy targets for haters.

^5 for butches in male dominated work places

Yes that's so true about the locatoon of the bars. And the coded names of the bars, too!
Having the gay bars be out of the way also had advantages for the cops, too. When they were having a slow night or whatever, they'd cuff us as we left thr bar, and take us down to the station to run our records. I'm sure they were glad not many people were watching that harassment.

[Glenn]

This thread triggers alot of anger in me because of what I've seen, been through, and heard about, plus, I'm born a little hot-blooded to begin with. I've yelled at cops, thugs, whatever, when I've seen some bully bigger or out-numbering someone: WHAT THE ***DO YOU THINK YOU ARE DOING? I'm surprised I have'nt got in more trouble than I have. I empathize with you all greatly, but we have to stand up to bullies. I know what it feels like when guys get in your face threatening you, and punching you, while you weakly look around for help. Most people ignore dangerous situations that can turn violent, even though there are twenty againest one assaulter, they still cower and do nothing, and walk past, or come by later asking if you're ok. Where I came from, you don't ask, you just pull the trigger. If my life is on the line, you better believe somebody's going to sleep. So yeah..from now on I'm packing heat, and don't test my accuracy with my Glock-it's deadly. Read the conceal and carry laws and self defense laws in your state, then go buy a KahrPM9 and carry it with you. If anybody tries to assault you and yours, tell them forcfully to leave, if they keep on trying to assault you, then it's open season. If someone tries to **** with you stand in front of your femme if you are out-numbered or outsized,and they threaten you with a weapon or fists, then it's open season. There's no excuse to let yourself be terrorized. If the police are'nt there to protect me, then that duty is up to me.

[Heart]

Ender - you misread me and misread my use of the word experience. I am talking about the attacker's perspective and its relationship to rape as a tool of power and control. You either don't see that or you wish to continue engaging about something that I am not referencing. If you wish to discuss the victim's identity and the impact rape has on that, as well as critique "Boys Don't Cry," fine - go ahead. That's a worthy discussion. However, it is unrelated to what I was saying.

Further, your implication that I am somehow the aggressor when I discuss the rape of female bodies and the attempted obliteration by the rapist of whatever identity may be housed in that body, reads as shifting accountability away from the rapist to me. Fuck that.

This is the last I will engage with you on this topic.

I will also bow out of this thread so as to stop taking space from those butches and folks sharing their experiences of violation. Peace and safety for all is my fervent wish.

Heart

[Andrew, Jr.]

Yes, I have been physically & verbally assulted by not only the straight community but the glbt community as well. One day I will have peace. Some people think its funny or cute to gossip as well. They have no idea of how the words they speak hurt someone, and those around them.