Reclaiming Lesbian Pride

Kobi · 08-07-2011, 11:27 PM

Having caught up on the recent posts, there are a few things I want to address.

Bulldog, you asked why I was so disappointed and suggested you didnt understand the intent of this thread.

Lets review. This is what Kobi said way back when:
-----
"When I started this thread, I hoped it would not turn into a debate of terminology, or who owns what words, or who has the current rights to whatever.

I am a freakin lesbian - one of those relic women who wants to be with women who want to be with other women.

I am tired of feeling invisible in my own community. I am tired of feeling like a guest in my own community.

I just wanted a place to be where others like me can get together and say "hey yea we are still here and we are still ok and we still have a voice and we're not going away."

Is that too much to ask?"
--------
So, this was supposed to be a thread by and for female, lesbian, feminists, like me, who identify as that "outdated" concept of a female homosexual who are feeling invisible in their own community.

Is there some part of this that is or was unclear? If you dont identify as this, why is this discussion any of your concern?

I even said, several times, that I did not want this to deteriorate into a discussion on terminology and linguistics. Yet that is exactly what happened.

Several of you have taken issue with what you perceive as a narrow definition of what a lesbian is because you favor a broader more inclusive one. I am sure that a broader view suits your purposes and realities just as my narrower view suits my purposes, my reality, and the purpose of this thread.

I promise not to impose my reality on you and would appreciate if you would stop inflicting yours on me. We are both entitled to our own and neither should be negating the other.

Someone mentioned transphobia in here and I saw red. This discussion is about female, lesbian, feminists for female, lesbian, feminists. It has nothing to do with transpeople. The transpeople here have been nothing but supportive, kind, understanding, and respectful to me as a female, lesbian, feminist.

I wish I could say the same for other women. The biggest weird stuff I see on this thread and even in other lesbian threads, is women taking issue with other women. Women negating other women. Women baiting other women. It is women against women. And, from where I stand, that smacks of misogyny, sexism, and big time homophobia. And that just is not acceptable.

And it is women going after other women, in effect silencing their voices. Take this thread as a prime example. The purpose was clear but folks who didnt fit the id had to come in and turn it into something else. Take the leaping thread and its discussion on BV. Women who hadnt had the need to leap in ages, suddenly develop the need to leap in and effectively stopped the discussion. And when their behavior is pointed out to them, they respond with righteous indignation. Huh?

So, the question begging to be asked, is why are women so threatened by female, lesbian, feminists having serious discussions about issues that affect women, lesbians and feminists? The only reason to consistently and systematically shutdown serious discussions like these is fear. So, what is so threatening that it provokes the need to sabotage other women?

This is the stuff behind the linguistics that really needs to be aired. Serious stuff about females, women, using their voices, being heard, being respected, being seen, being appreciated, being understood, being treated as valuable, contributing members of this community by other women.

There are many regressions occuring out there in the big world. But we cant even begin to address the regressions out there until we deal with the regressions of members of our own community directed at other members of our own community.

And it really irks me, when I see women who take up everyone elses causes, writing pages and pages of support and outrage, finding all kinds of candle vigil pictures, advocating for protests and emails and petitions. And yet when it comes to the causes of other women in this community, all we can do is infighting, rude vulgaries, and negating? That is pretty fucking sad.

And Martina, those are MY words you used. You referred to ME as "this person". Wow, gee, thanks. That makes me feel really visible and validated. And rather than ask me why I felt invisible, you went ahead in an inflammatory way and made assumptions and presumptions. Homophobia and misogyny....the gifts that just keep on giving. I wish I could say I am surprised but I am not. This kind of bullshit has become par for the course. And it is a fine example of the bullshit women do to other women.

I may have a different reality than some of the rest of you. I am very thankful for it. Nothing like being around supportive people who dont have the need or desire to tear anyone else down.

Maybe, someday, it will happen here.

BullDog · 08-07-2011, 11:37 PM

Well Kobi I am a lesbian, have been for over 30 years. I am a woman attracted to women, so I do fit your definition.

I often feel invisible or disrespected in BF circles as well- it's due to the stereotypes and narrow conceptions of lesbian that get thrown out- no matter who is saying them.

There are quite a number of lesbians that are part of this community who do partner with male identified/male people. They are lesbians as well. They are human beings- not linguistic debate or terminology.

I am happy to discuss my points of interest in a different lesbian thread if this really is so upsetting to you.

JustJo · 08-08-2011, 07:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kobi

And it is women going after other women, in effect silencing their voices. Take this thread as a prime example. The purpose was clear but folks who didnt fit the id had to come in and turn it into something else. Take the leaping thread and its discussion on BV. Women who hadnt had the need to leap in ages, suddenly develop the need to leap in and effectively stopped the discussion. And when their behavior is pointed out to them, they respond with righteous indignation. Huh?

Okay, so I had promised myself I would stay out of this thread...but now find that I can't.

Kobi...regarding the part that I put in red....since you're referring to me, among others.

I was not silencing anyone. I was having my own conversation in a thread that does not have a single directed OP. It's an open thread, and has a light-hearted title.

My "righteous indignation" (which it wasn't, by the way)...was at MY being silenced by another member who felt the need to come in and play thread police.

If you feel silenced by others having their own conversation or having fun, then I'm sorry.

I will also honor the fact that you clearly don't want anyone here who doesn't specifically agree with you...and leave.

And, by the way, I'm a lesbian.

08-07-2011, 11:37 PM	#2
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,665 Times in 4,464 Posts Rep Power: 21474856	Well Kobi I am a lesbian, have been for over 30 years. I am a woman attracted to women, so I do fit your definition. I often feel invisible or disrespected in BF circles as well- it's due to the stereotypes and narrow conceptions of lesbian that get thrown out- no matter who is saying them. There are quite a number of lesbians that are part of this community who do partner with male identified/male people. They are lesbians as well. They are human beings- not linguistic debate or terminology. I am happy to discuss my points of interest in a different lesbian thread if this really is so upsetting to you. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

08-07-2011, 11:27 PM	#1
Kobi Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Biological female. Lesbian. Relationship Status: Happy Join Date: Feb 2010 Location: Hanging out in the Atlantic. Posts: 9,234 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 9,840 Thanked 34,636 Times in 7,642 Posts Rep Power: 21474861	Having caught up on the recent posts, there are a few things I want to address. Bulldog, you asked why I was so disappointed and suggested you didnt understand the intent of this thread. Lets review. This is what Kobi said way back when: ----- "When I started this thread, I hoped it would not turn into a debate of terminology, or who owns what words, or who has the current rights to whatever. I am a freakin lesbian - one of those relic women who wants to be with women who want to be with other women. I am tired of feeling invisible in my own community. I am tired of feeling like a guest in my own community. I just wanted a place to be where others like me can get together and say "hey yea we are still here and we are still ok and we still have a voice and we're not going away." Is that too much to ask?" -------- So, this was supposed to be a thread by and for female, lesbian, feminists, like me, who identify as that "outdated" concept of a female homosexual who are feeling invisible in their own community. Is there some part of this that is or was unclear? If you dont identify as this, why is this discussion any of your concern? I even said, several times, that I did not want this to deteriorate into a discussion on terminology and linguistics. Yet that is exactly what happened. Several of you have taken issue with what you perceive as a narrow definition of what a lesbian is because you favor a broader more inclusive one. I am sure that a broader view suits your purposes and realities just as my narrower view suits my purposes, my reality, and the purpose of this thread. I promise not to impose my reality on you and would appreciate if you would stop inflicting yours on me. We are both entitled to our own and neither should be negating the other. Someone mentioned transphobia in here and I saw red. This discussion is about female, lesbian, feminists for female, lesbian, feminists. It has nothing to do with transpeople. The transpeople here have been nothing but supportive, kind, understanding, and respectful to me as a female, lesbian, feminist. I wish I could say the same for other women. The biggest weird stuff I see on this thread and even in other lesbian threads, is women taking issue with other women. Women negating other women. Women baiting other women. It is women against women. And, from where I stand, that smacks of misogyny, sexism, and big time homophobia. And that just is not acceptable. And it is women going after other women, in effect silencing their voices. Take this thread as a prime example. The purpose was clear but folks who didnt fit the id had to come in and turn it into something else. Take the leaping thread and its discussion on BV. Women who hadnt had the need to leap in ages, suddenly develop the need to leap in and effectively stopped the discussion. And when their behavior is pointed out to them, they respond with righteous indignation. Huh? So, the question begging to be asked, is why are women so threatened by female, lesbian, feminists having serious discussions about issues that affect women, lesbians and feminists? The only reason to consistently and systematically shutdown serious discussions like these is fear. So, what is so threatening that it provokes the need to sabotage other women? This is the stuff behind the linguistics that really needs to be aired. Serious stuff about females, women, using their voices, being heard, being respected, being seen, being appreciated, being understood, being treated as valuable, contributing members of this community by other women. There are many regressions occuring out there in the big world. But we cant even begin to address the regressions out there until we deal with the regressions of members of our own community directed at other members of our own community. And it really irks me, when I see women who take up everyone elses causes, writing pages and pages of support and outrage, finding all kinds of candle vigil pictures, advocating for protests and emails and petitions. And yet when it comes to the causes of other women in this community, all we can do is infighting, rude vulgaries, and negating? That is pretty fucking sad. And Martina, those are MY words you used. You referred to ME as "this person". Wow, gee, thanks. That makes me feel really visible and validated. And rather than ask me why I felt invisible, you went ahead in an inflammatory way and made assumptions and presumptions. Homophobia and misogyny....the gifts that just keep on giving. I wish I could say I am surprised but I am not. This kind of bullshit has become par for the course. And it is a fine example of the bullshit women do to other women. I may have a different reality than some of the rest of you. I am very thankful for it. Nothing like being around supportive people who dont have the need or desire to tear anyone else down. Maybe, someday, it will happen here.