Poetry and Class

SoNotHer · 10-28-2011, 09:06 AM

Poets and artists report from the edge, and often that's a pretty scary place to be. They are our sentinels. They go out into the emotional hinterlands and come back with some vision of what they saw and felt. They're never the same again nor are we.

What is more common than class is the presence of depression, bipolarity, ADD, and addiction. There is often a price to be paid for knowing and feeling too much.

Apocalipstic · 10-28-2011, 09:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoNotHer

Poets and artists report from the edge, and often that's a pretty scary place to be. They are our sentinels. They go out into the emotional hinterlands and come back with some vision of what they saw and felt. They're never the same again nor are we.

What is more common that class is the presence of depression, bipolarity, ADD, and addiction. There is often a price to be paid for knowing and feeling too much.

I know I definitely write more whern I am depressed and back when I did lots of drugs. But I never do anything with it....too depressed.

Then when I feel better, there is life to lead.

PS, I love your post here. So incredibly on point.

macele · 10-28-2011, 09:21 AM

define elite. does it mean money, fame, higher education, location? all these things and more?

is there one definition?

Apocalipstic · 10-28-2011, 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macele

define elite. does it mean money, fame, higher education, location? all these things and more?

is there one definition?

I was picturing Lord Byron. lol.

Artdecogoddess · 10-28-2011, 02:42 PM

Derail warning...

I often picture Lord Byron... as a Butch!

That is all....

Artdecogoddess

Quote:

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

I was picturing Lord Byron. lol.

Artdecogoddess · 10-28-2011, 02:46 PM

More seriously...

I read a lot of almost anything - I am kinda a printed word whore.
But when it comes to poetry I don't.
I do read the 9 word thread rather religiously.

There is all of the above in that thread. Darkness, art, pain, beauty, joy, contempt and anger and so much more.

When I write - my goal is often to get something out of my head - where it is taking up space and warmth and intensity. So even if the poem isn't about the more painful memories of my youth - its in there somewhere in my word choice, phrasing etc etc.

ADG

Ginger · 03-15-2012, 11:38 AM

I got my MFA from an Ivy League school and that's where I learned about class.

I thought I knew about class, but as a young person whose family had a rural, aspiring-to-middle-class background, and having earned a mediocre public education, I felt very different from my classmates. Example: I was told—and I know it sounds unkind, but it really wasn't—that I had no "leisure skills," meaning, I didn't ski, or play tennis or racquetball. Someone else asked what camp I went to every summer when I was growing up, and I said I didn't go to camp—the shock on her face! It was priceless! And here's my last example, though I could go on: I went to Europe with a lover. I spent my life's savings. She spent her allowance.

Talent is a great equalizer, though—and while a good education enhances it, there is a point where talent is either there or it isn't.

I learned to keep putting my work in places where people who could support me in some way, would see it. Every fellowship, award and publication I received for a very long time, were through the sadly but aptly named "slush pile." In other words, I was completely anonymous to the people at the gate. Eventually, I started meeting people and relating to them as friends, and we bonded around our work, and became a support for each other. It happened very slowly, though, because I let my ridiculous life get in the way.

My advice to poets feeling shut out—and I've been there—is this:

If you want to be heard, start listening. Go to as many readings as you can. Find the poets you admire in your city, and read them—not because you're kissing ass, but because you love the work and it fuels you. Also, go to as many open readings as you can, to practice reading your work in front of strangers, and let your mutual love of poetry connect you with people. As you begin to find your community, you'll find your audience, and maybe even your voice.

macele · 10-28-2011, 09:28 AM

i certainly don't read what i consider to be alot.
but if i had not read what have i read lol, ...
i wouldn't be where i am as a poet.
but i do think we need to leave a bit of room for our own expression.
we don't need to take on too much of anyone elses style.
unique is wonderful.
and listening to someone read poetry, ...
can be amazingly moving.
for someone to say they don't read another persons poems, is sad.

i know when i first started writing, ...
the writing was pretty close to 100% self expression.
i started with wanting someone to share my feelings, ...
i grew from there.
at times, i didn't care if anyone else understood.
in fact, i purposely wrote that way.

i'm dark. that's where i thrive. i rarely write happy.

SoNotHer · 10-28-2011, 09:36 AM

The grist for many of us is pain, but what you do with that hard clay is what makes a poem. We transcend through poetry, the writing and the reading of it.

A friend of mine likes to say that we enter a different state through three things:

Drugs
Drums
Dance

Either poetry in its trance-like form is the "drums" or in its lyricism it is the "dance." Or it is simply its own portal. Whatever the case, the pain may take us to that edge, but the poetry takes us beyond and through. And that's a beautiful thing.

dark_crystal · 10-28-2011, 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SoNotHer

Poets and artists report from the edge, and often that's a pretty scary place to be. They are our sentinels. They go out into the emotional hinterlands and come back with some vision of what they saw and felt. They're never the same again nor are we.

What is more common than class is the presence of depression, bipolarity, ADD, and addiction. There is often a price to be paid for knowing and feeling too much.

this book includes a study of poets and suicide- very high numbers which get even higher when you include single car automobile accidents

macele · 10-28-2011, 11:15 AM

thinking about those that i know with manic depression/bi polar, ...
are intelligent, giving, tender-hearted, emotional, creative.

Apocalipstic · 10-28-2011, 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by macele

thinking about those that i know with manic depression/bi polar, ...
are intelligent, giving, tender-hearted, emotional, creative.

soooo painfully beautiful
air crackling all around
I am both drawn and triggered

10-28-2011, 09:06 AM	#1
SoNotHer Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Professional Sandbagger and Jenga Zumba Instructor Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: In the master control room of my world domination dreams Posts: 2,811 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,587 Thanked 4,735 Times in 1,409 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	The lives of poets Poets and artists report from the edge, and often that's a pretty scary place to be. They are our sentinels. They go out into the emotional hinterlands and come back with some vision of what they saw and felt. They're never the same again nor are we. What is more common than class is the presence of depression, bipolarity, ADD, and addiction. There is often a price to be paid for knowing and feeling too much.

10-28-2011, 02:46 PM	#6
Artdecogoddess Member How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: She - but read me however! Relationship Status: Blissfull! Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Baltimore Posts: 399 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,596 Thanked 886 Times in 199 Posts Rep Power: 5087999	More seriously... I read a lot of almost anything - I am kinda a printed word whore. But when it comes to poetry I don't. I do read the 9 word thread rather religiously. There is all of the above in that thread. Darkness, art, pain, beauty, joy, contempt and anger and so much more. When I write - my goal is often to get something out of my head - where it is taking up space and warmth and intensity. So even if the poem isn't about the more painful memories of my youth - its in there somewhere in my word choice, phrasing etc etc. ADG __________________ [ Responsibility to yourself means refusing to let others do your thinking, talking, and naming for you...it means that you do not treat your body as a commodity with which to purchase superficial intimacy or economic security; for our bodies to be treated as objects, our minds are in mortal danger. It means insisting that those to whom you give your friendship and love are able to respect your mind. It means being able to say, with Charlotte Bronte's Jane Eyre: "I have an inward treasure born with me, which can keep me alive if all the extraneous delights should be withheld or offered only at a price I cannot afford to give. Responsibility to yourself means that you don't fall for shallow and easy solutions--predigested books and ideas...marrying early as an escape from real decisions, getting pregnant as an evasion of already existing problems. It means that you refuse to sell your talents and aspirations short...and this, in turn, means resisting the forces in society which say that women should be nice, play safe, have low professional expectations, drown in love and forget about work, live through others, and stay in the places assigned to us. It means that we insist on a life of meaningful work, insist that work be as meaningful as love and friendship in our lives. It means, therefore, the courage to be "different"...The difference between a life lived actively, and a life of passive drifting and dispersal of energies, is an immense difference. Once we begin to feel committed to our lives, responsible to ourselves, we can never again be satisfied with the old, passive way." Adrienne Rich

10-28-2011, 09:21 AM	#3
macele Member How Do You Identify?: a bold-assed maximus Preferred Pronoun?: she Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: mississippi Posts: 1,066 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,178 Thanked 3,230 Times in 847 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	define elite. does it mean money, fame, higher education, location? all these things and more? is there one definition?

03-15-2012, 11:38 AM	#7
Ginger Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Femme lesbian Join Date: Mar 2012 Location: East coast Posts: 2,416 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,829 Thanked 12,295 Times in 2,057 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	I got my MFA from an Ivy League school and that's where I learned about class. I thought I knew about class, but as a young person whose family had a rural, aspiring-to-middle-class background, and having earned a mediocre public education, I felt very different from my classmates. Example: I was told—and I know it sounds unkind, but it really wasn't—that I had no "leisure skills," meaning, I didn't ski, or play tennis or racquetball. Someone else asked what camp I went to every summer when I was growing up, and I said I didn't go to camp—the shock on her face! It was priceless! And here's my last example, though I could go on: I went to Europe with a lover. I spent my life's savings. She spent her allowance. Talent is a great equalizer, though—and while a good education enhances it, there is a point where talent is either there or it isn't. I learned to keep putting my work in places where people who could support me in some way, would see it. Every fellowship, award and publication I received for a very long time, were through the sadly but aptly named "slush pile." In other words, I was completely anonymous to the people at the gate. Eventually, I started meeting people and relating to them as friends, and we bonded around our work, and became a support for each other. It happened very slowly, though, because I let my ridiculous life get in the way. My advice to poets feeling shut out—and I've been there—is this: If you want to be heard, start listening. Go to as many readings as you can. Find the poets you admire in your city, and read them—not because you're kissing ass, but because you love the work and it fuels you. Also, go to as many open readings as you can, to practice reading your work in front of strangers, and let your mutual love of poetry connect you with people. As you begin to find your community, you'll find your audience, and maybe even your voice.

10-28-2011, 09:28 AM	#8
macele Member How Do You Identify?: a bold-assed maximus Preferred Pronoun?: she Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: mississippi Posts: 1,066 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,178 Thanked 3,230 Times in 847 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	i certainly don't read what i consider to be alot. but if i had not read what have i read lol, ... i wouldn't be where i am as a poet. but i do think we need to leave a bit of room for our own expression. we don't need to take on too much of anyone elses style. unique is wonderful. and listening to someone read poetry, ... can be amazingly moving. for someone to say they don't read another persons poems, is sad. i know when i first started writing, ... the writing was pretty close to 100% self expression. i started with wanting someone to share my feelings, ... i grew from there. at times, i didn't care if anyone else understood. in fact, i purposely wrote that way. i'm dark. that's where i thrive. i rarely write happy.

10-28-2011, 09:36 AM	#9
SoNotHer Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Professional Sandbagger and Jenga Zumba Instructor Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: In the master control room of my world domination dreams Posts: 2,811 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,587 Thanked 4,735 Times in 1,409 Posts Rep Power: 21474852	The grist for many of us is pain, but what you do with that hard clay is what makes a poem. We transcend through poetry, the writing and the reading of it. A friend of mine likes to say that we enter a different state through three things: Drugs Drums Dance Either poetry in its trance-like form is the "drums" or in its lyricism it is the "dance." Or it is simply its own portal. Whatever the case, the pain may take us to that edge, but the poetry takes us beyond and through. And that's a beautiful thing.

10-28-2011, 11:15 AM	#11
macele Member How Do You Identify?: a bold-assed maximus Preferred Pronoun?: she Join Date: Sep 2011 Location: mississippi Posts: 1,066 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,178 Thanked 3,230 Times in 847 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	thinking about those that i know with manic depression/bi polar, ... are intelligent, giving, tender-hearted, emotional, creative.