Justice as fairness: we can do better than we are

[Cin]

For me I am willing to say that people in Latin America are responsible for their choices when they are actually allowed to make them without covert or overt interference from the right wing agenda pushing United States of America. However, that is not likely to happen anytime soon. One only needs to look at what happened recently in Honduras to understand that. No matter all the fancy footwork it was clear to other Latin American governments that the political strategy of the U.S. was to blunt and delay any efforts to restore the elected president, while pretending that a return to democracy was actually the goal. Haiti had the U.S. extensively involved in overthrowing the elected president Jean-Bertrand Aristide not once but twice. The U.S. has lost some ground over recent years but that just means they are in there fighting all the harder to to get it back one country at a time. And as always the smaller, poorer countries that are closer to the U.S. are the most at risk.

Personally I think a united Latin America would be a better idea.

All abortion is legal in Canada but current provincial policy forbids abortions from being performed in PEI. There is also free medical care in Canada but in PEI the government will only cover the cost of the abortion in a hospital in a different province under the recommendation of two doctors. So if you live in PEI even though you are supposed to be entitled to free medical care and abortion is legal in Canada you would not be able to get an abortion that was free just because you wanted one. So I suppose if P.E.I. can do it then I imagine very catholic latin american countries could also get around abortion laws.

I imagine it is disturbing and it might even piss some people off that the U.S. hogs the term American for itself. And not in the way that people are European or Asian but as their nationality. It might not annoy Canadians as much as Latin Americans because, although I know some that don't like it but think it is just part of the typical thoughtless arrogant behavior one expects from Americans, Canada hasn't been subjected to the same kind of imperialistic behavior as Latin America.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

For me I am willing to say that people in Latin America are responsible for their choices when they are actually allowed to make them without covert or overt interference from the right wing agenda pushing United States of America. However, that is not likely to happen anytime soon. One only needs to look at what happened recently in Honduras to understand that. No matter all the fancy footwork it was clear to other Latin American governments that the political strategy of the U.S. was to blunt and delay any efforts to restore the elected president, while pretending that a return to democracy was actually the goal. Haiti had the U.S. extensively involved in overthrowing the elected president Jean-Bertrand Aristide not once but twice. The U.S. has lost some ground over recent years but that just means they are in there fighting all the harder to to get it back one country at a time. And as always the smaller, poorer countries that are closer to the U.S. are the most at risk.

Personally I think a united Latin America would be a better idea.

All abortion is legal in Canada but current provincial policy forbids abortions from being performed in PEI. There is also free medical care in Canada but in PEI the government will only cover the cost of the abortion in a hospital in a different province under the recommendation of two doctors. So if you live in PEI even though you are supposed to be entitled to free medical care and abortion is legal in Canada you would not be able to get an abortion that was free just because you wanted one. So I suppose if P.E.I. can do it then I imagine very catholic Latin American countries could also get around abortion laws.

I imagine it is disturbing and it might even piss some people off that the U.S. hogs the term American for itself. And not in the way that people are European or Asian but as their nationality. It might not annoy Canadians as much as Latin Americans because, although I know some that don't like it but think it is just part of the typical thoughtless arrogant behavior one expects from Americans, Canada hasn't been subjected to the same kind of imperialistic behavior as Latin America.

Most US citizens really don't think about South America or the role the US has had and continues to have in coups, dictatorships, wars and even drugs and arms dealings.

Really glad to you do! and really get and care how it might feel to a non-US citizen.

I don't know that it would benefit to have a united Latin America, it might divide the US even more on issues like language, immigration and geopolitical borders. Would Brazil be considered Latin? I mean yes, linguistically it should be, but in the US we seem to use Latin and Latino/a for people who speak Spanish and do not live in Spain, not people who speak languages bases on Latin.....which BTW I find confusing a bit. What of other (yes small) countries who don't speak Spanish in South America?

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

I don't know that it would benefit to have a united Latin America, it might divide the US even more on issues like language, immigration and geopolitical borders. Would Brazil be considered Latin? I mean yes, linguistically it should be, but in the US we seem to use Latin and Latino/a for people who speak Spanish and do not live in Spain, not people who speak languages bases on Latin.....which BTW I find confusing a bit. What of other (yes small) countries who don't speak Spanish in South America?

LOL. Everything IS about the U.S isn't it? Even though last I looked, despite their behavior, the United States doesn't actually own Latin America.

Strangely enough though when I mentioned it I was thinking about how it might actually effect Latin America itself. But I suppose when you live so close to a country that reminds one of a gigantically powerful 5 year old you do not want to do anything to piss them off too much. Still do you not think it would benefit Latin America to unite?

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

LOL. Everything IS about the U.S isn't it? Even though last I looked, despite their behavior, the United States doesn't actually own Latin America.

Strangely enough though when I mentioned it I was thinking about how it might actually effect Latin America itself. But I suppose when you live so close to a country that reminds one of a gigantically powerful 5 year old you do not want to do anything to piss them off too much. Still do you not think it would benefit Latin America to unite?

I was thinking about Undocumented Workers and the wall and how the US acts already about its newest immigrants.

If the US had a united, organized force to the South, I doubt the US would behave well about it..which might not be in the interest of anyone...except maybe China and OPEC.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

I was thinking about Undocumented Workers and the wall and how the US acts already about its newest immigrants.

If the US had a united, organized force to the South, I doubt the US would behave well about it..which might not be in the interest of anyone...except maybe China and OPEC.

Yes. I'm sure you are right.

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

I was thinking about Undocumented Workers and the wall and how the US acts already about its newest immigrants.

If the US had a united, organized force to the South, I doubt the US would behave well about it..which might not be in the interest of anyone...except maybe China and OPEC.

Actually, if I were the Chinese I would positively *encourage* the Latin American nations to unite. I would recognize them the minute they declared themselves a nation and I would be a gigantic, geopolitical Santa Claus, just *giving* this new Latin American nation all the military hardware they could ever possibly want in exchange for, say, some air bases in the northern most part of the newly created nations and perhaps docking rights for my navy. I would then spend the next decade or more, training the military of this new Latin American nation so that the Chinese and Latin American navies would be better integrated than NATO (which actually is pretty integrated).

The only fly in the ointment for that plan would probably be Russia because if I was Russia I would *absolutely* do that since that was, in fact, part of why Russia got involved in the region in the first place. As a strategic point it is just too, too, juicy a piece of low-hanging fruit for a world power interested in being able to block the United States from owning either the Pacific or Atlantic oceans or, for that matter, being able to even secure anything outside of its territorial waters. (If I were in a generous mood, I might let the United States navigate between the Pacific coast and Hawaii.) Then, when all my pieces were on the chessboard, I would make my move.
I would invade Taiwan and then *dare* the Americans to do something about it.

This isn't going to be a popular opinion here, but I think that the historical record bears it out. Nations will still continue to do 'Great Game' geopolitics, trying to set themselves up in the strategic catbird seat. Even IF the United States pulled within the *continental* borders (quitting both Hawaii and Alaska) Russia--which still has dreams of imperial greatness and China--which is playing a very long, subtle game that I doubt most Americans even realize the outer dimensions would continue to do geopolitics. They would continue to make strategic alliances that would benefit them militarily. The dream of the two major Asian powers (China and Japan) is to own the Western Pacific ocean. The dream of Russia is to own the North Atlantic. I'm not saying that the United States *should* do anything about it, it would be nice, however, if the people of the United States understood, however, that nations have strategic, geopolitical interests which they *will* pursue. Right now, we don't on either side. The Left seems to believe that nations simply don't *think* that way with the exception of the United States and the Right seems to think that the United States is the only nation that actually has any business *having* strategic interests.

Cheers
Aj

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Apocalipstic

I was thinking about Undocumented Workers and the wall and how the US acts already about its newest immigrants.

If the US had a united, organized force to the South, I doubt the US would behave well about it..which might not be in the interest of anyone...except maybe China and OPEC.

We probably wouldn't. It would likely be suicidal if we sat on our hands because, as I say in my prior post, if I were China nothing would make me happier than for Latin America to unite, invite a superpower in as protection against the United States and then give me a naval and air foothold right in the US backyard. That way, with joint forces, I could, at will, have a shot at completely isolating the United States.

Cheers
Aj

[Apocalipstic]

On that note, we agree.

I get stuck on my moral issues with geopolitical borders and warmongering. Too much of an idealist, but agree....

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I imagine it is disturbing and it might even piss some people off that the U.S. hogs the term American for itself. And not in the way that people are European or Asian but as their nationality. It might not annoy Canadians as much as Latin Americans because, although I know some that don't like it but think it is just part of the typical thoughtless arrogant behavior one expects from Americans, Canada hasn't been subjected to the same kind of imperialistic behavior as Latin America.

Two words, British Empire.

Cheers
Aj

[Cin]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

Two words, British Empire.

Cheers
Aj

Sorry I don't see the connection. I don't see any continent named
Britain. Besides in my experience one just can't talk people out of their feelings. They are allowed to not like something. And some people from other parts of America don't like it that the people of the United States call themselves Americans and say they live in America and that people always want to come to America as though they had a monopoly on America and could just disregard the millions of people who live outside of the U.S. but also live in America.

Oh, I forgot this one. America love it or leave it.