OCCUPY WALL STREET

[Toughy]

The Oakland Police Department is completely fucked up, has been for YEARS and Occupy Oakland and everyone else in Oakland knows that. Most of what they did was not necessary and a complete over-reaction. However that IS NOT the point and begs the bigger question of how OO moves forward.

I still say it is a two way street and communication between police/city officials and OO, has been completely lacking from the beginning. OO looks more and more like street thugs and less like a social justice movement every protest directly because of property damage to small business. Are folks condoning breaking windows and spray painting small businesses?

OO is NOT (in my opinion) working the local mainstream press angle or any other angle in any effective way. They are rapidily loosing the support of the 98-99%. I heard it today in 2 different local coffee shops/cafes known to be places you would find sympathetic folks.....ya know internet cafes with latte liberals and college kids and unemployed folks... The tactics they are using are not working.

It is the pinnacle of insanity to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result.

By the way...........I promise my social justice politics are far far to the left of most people on this website. I have been a staunch defender of the Occupy Movement from the beginning, however they are losing my support because of their own stupidity.

[Toughy]

One more thing about ALL of the protests in Oakland. The large majority of those arrested for vandalism and other charges do NOT live in Oakland. This situation was truly apparent in this last protest.

As a long time resident of Oakland, I do not want idiots who do not live in or contribute to my town to be reeking havoc in our streets and/or public buildings. Enough. I am glad Mayor Quan is requesting an injunction to stop those who do not live in Oakland and have repeated protest connected arrests from coming to Oakland. Go play in your own town's streets and public buildings.

Heard in my living room tonite from a person in their 20s who lives in the City (SF) and works at the Peets Coffee shop a door or two from the big Wells Fargo bank and offices: I work at Peets and the protesters came in and bought coffee before their last Occupy protest at the bank. Guess where Peet's banks....where my paycheck comes from? Wells Fargo............

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by Toughy

The Oakland Police Department is completely fucked up, has been for YEARS and Occupy Oakland and everyone else in Oakland knows that. Most of what they did was not necessary and a complete over-reaction. However that IS NOT the point and begs the bigger question of how OO moves forward.

I still say it is a two way street and communication between police/city officials and OO, has been completely lacking from the beginning. OO looks more and more like street thugs and less like a social justice movement every protest directly because of property damage to small business. Are folks condoning breaking windows and spray painting small businesses?

OO is NOT (in my opinion) working the local mainstream press angle or any other angle in any effective way. They are rapidily loosing the support of the 98-99%. I heard it today in 2 different local coffee shops/cafes known to be places you would find sympathetic folks.....ya know internet cafes with latte liberals and college kids and unemployed folks... The tactics they are using are not working.

It is the pinnacle of insanity to keep doing the same thing over and over again and expect a different result.

By the way...........I promise my social justice politics are far far to the left of most people on this website. I have been a staunch defender of the Occupy Movement from the beginning, however they are losing my support because of their own stupidity.

Toughy- anyone that knows you could not view as anything other than far left and a defender of the core ideas of the Occupy movement.

I personally find this a difficult situation because the Occupy movement has and is making a difference nationally across cultures, economic class, gender, etc. In fact, there are now some agreeing from Wall Street about key factors the movement is calling out.

Yes, the OO people that do not live and work or struggle in Oakland have been at the seat of OO problems and are turning off many of us here in the East Bay Area.

[SoNotHer]

[Toughy]

.....said in my most gentle tone..........

.....video/audio/talk of only police violence (or peaceful protest) serves neither side and does not one single thing to help change the inherent violence of unfettered capitalism as both an economic and political paradigm.....

capitalism is an economic system that values money/individual profit/the free market over democracy

Democracy is a political system that protects the people from the carpetbaggers and industrialists............democracy does it's best to create a socially and economically just society....

economic systems are egotistical and political systems are altruistic..

democracy is a political system with capitalism being the economic system......the political systems job is to protect and serve the people, not the corporations with a profit motive.


uhhhhh..........exactly what has the Occupy Oakland group done to dispel the violence of poverty? I have a friend who teaches in an elementary school in downtown Oakland. She has spent HOURS of her limited classroom time calming the fears of the kids just trying to go to school and learn to read and write................why are the protesters in downtown Oakland and not out in the affluent neighborhood terrorizing those children who are mostly white? Why are the OO protests scaring the shit out of mostly kids of color in downtown schools?

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Toughy

IF they would knock off all that bullshit, then the police would not behave the way they do.

I can barely fathom that people who witnessed the vicious and unprovoked attacks by para-military police forces across the country perpetrated on non-violent groups of citizens exercising their right to protest would have those kind of expectations of the police. But even those who can still manage that kind of faith could certainly understand that others, especially those others on the front lines of this protest movement, might have a different expectation.

Way to go guys......big help to your fellow 98-99 percenters......and what have you done to effect change in money in politics and the influence of multi-national corporations and their continuing destruction of our democracy?

It seems to me that the Occupy movement has made a major difference in how many people, those directly involved, those on the periphery, and even those who only had limited and slanted exposure through the corporate owned media, understand many issues that affect the poor, the working class and the middle class. People understand things much differently than they did before Occupy Wall Street. You can’t change something until you first understand what needs changing. The movement has given people the words to articulate what they knew in their hearts. They knew something is radically wrong. There is a much better understanding of what exactly that is thanks to the movement.

I have a friend who teaches in an elementary school in downtown Oakland. She has spent HOURS of her limited classroom time calming the fears of the kids just trying to go to school and learn to read and write

It would seem to me that this would be a perfect opportunity to open dialogue with students about the Occupy movement and the reasons why so many people feel the need to protest policies perpetrated on them by a corporate controlled government. It would be a great time to begin to educate them regarding some truly frightening things that are happening. Things that will affect their chances to have the life they might wish for themselves. Conversations about the cost of public university education for residents as well as the chances for enrollment might be beneficial. Perhaps a look at interesting educational choices that are being made in places such as Tucson Az and the long term effects of this type of censorship. Maybe even examining the very real possibility of public education going the way of the prison and foster care systems and becoming privatized and what that will mean for students and their futures. All valid and useful conversations for kids to engage in and infinitely more frightening than any Occupy protest I would imagine.

uhhhhh..........exactly what has the Occupy Oakland group done to dispel the violence of poverty? why are the protesters in downtown Oakland and not out in the affluent neighborhood terrorizing those children who are mostly white? Why are the OO protests scaring the shit out of mostly kids of color in downtown schools?

I don’t think the idea of the Occupy Movement is to terrorize children of any color. I think they are in downtown Oakland rather than affluent neighborhoods terrorizing white kids because terrorizing kids is not the focus of the movement. I don’t think I’m even capable of having this conversation…

While I was trying to respond to this last paragraph about the Occupy movement terrorizing children it came to me that I am really wasting my time here. I had missed something quite important. I had failed to realize that this thread had morphed into a place for people who do not support the Occupy movement, or who have issues with the direction the movement is taking or not taking as the case may be. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and should be able to have a place to discuss them with like-minded people. Since I am not like-minded I will now bow out of this thread.

[SoNotHer]

I agree with so much written here. Inasmuch as I think it's important for the queer community to examine its own internalized homophobia and isms on a regular basis, it's important for this any movement to analyze the ways in which we've stopped challenging and believing and have gone back to accepting the status quo because it is, after all, what we know so why not learn to love the bomb.

The protests will continue, whether we protest the protests, or not, and as long as inequality continues and in fact thrives. And whether or not we deflect and redirect the fight internally or we actually direct our energies toward change - well that's all up to us.

This is the threat to our lives. We all face it. We all operate in our society in relation to a system. Now is the system going to eat you up and relieve you of your humanity or are you going to be able to use the system to human purposes?

Joseph Campbell

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I can barely fathom that people who witnessed the vicious and unprovoked attacks by para-military police forces across the country perpetrated on non-violent groups of citizens exercising their right to protest would have those kind of expectations of the police. But even those who can still manage that kind of faith could certainly understand that others, especially those others on the front lines of this protest movement, might have a different expectation.


It seems to me that the Occupy movement has made a major difference in how many people, those directly involved, those on the periphery, and even those who only had limited and slanted exposure through the corporate owned media, understand many issues that affect the poor, the working class and the middle class. People understand things much differently than they did before Occupy Wall Street. You can’t change something until you first understand what needs changing. The movement has given people the words to articulate what they knew in their hearts. They knew something is radically wrong. There is a much better understanding of what exactly that is thanks to the movement.


It would seem to me that this would be a perfect opportunity to open dialogue with students about the Occupy movement and the reasons why so many people feel the need to protest policies perpetrated on them by a corporate controlled government. It would be a great time to begin to educate them regarding some truly frightening things that are happening. Things that will affect their chances to have the life they might wish for themselves. Conversations about the cost of public university education for residents as well as the chances for enrollment might be beneficial. Perhaps a look at interesting educational choices that are being made in places such as Tucson Az and the long term effects of this type of censorship. Maybe even examining the very real possibility of public education going the way of the prison and foster care systems and becoming privatized and what that will mean for students and their futures. All valid and useful conversations for kids to engage in and infinitely more frightening than any Occupy protest I would imagine.


I don’t think the idea of the Occupy Movement is to terrorize children of any color. I think they are in downtown Oakland rather than affluent neighborhoods terrorizing white kids because terrorizing kids is not the focus of the movement. I don’t think I’m even capable of having this conversation…

While I was trying to respond to this last paragraph about the Occupy movement terrorizing children it came to me that I am really wasting my time here. I had missed something quite important. I had failed to realize that this thread had morphed into a place for people who do not support the Occupy movement, or who have issues with the direction the movement is taking or not taking as the case may be. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and should be able to have a place to discuss them with like-minded people. Since I am not like-minded I will now bow out of this thread.

[SoNotHer]

http://sumofus.org/campaigns/bofa/

"Dear Mr. Moynihan - I was disappointed to learn about Bank of America's sudden recall of credit lines for many of its small business customers. These small businesses are vital to our economy, and are particularly vulnerable at a time when our country is still coming out of the recession. Please take a stand for entrepreneurs and don't force these businesses into refinancing at punishing rates. Thank you."

Bank of America is squeezing the most vulnerable businesses in our economy, our small businesses that employ millions of Americans, by recalling, with no prior notice, the long-term loans they need to survive. The alternatives Bank of America offers are stark: if these mom and pop operations cannot repay their loans immediately, they face either bankruptcy or refinancing at punishingly high interest rates. This money grab by BoA is guaranteed to have two results: line Bank of America’s pockets with more cash, and force the surviving small businesses into even thinner profit margins and even more layoffs.

This is utterly unacceptable from a company that would not even exist today if it hadn’t been bailed out itself with our tax dollars. More than ever, we need our small businesses, and this is the wrong action at the wrong time. Tell Bank of America President Brian Moynihan to stop putting the squeeze on small business.

[Toughy]

Miss Tick please don't take your toys and go home. Why not look at ALL aspects of a social justice movement?

The Oakland PD will never change. It has a history going back to the 60s with federal consent decrees and legal monitors and it does not matter who is mayor or who is the police chief. They have not been able to change their culture. It does not make me happy, but I am a realist.

The best chance we have is to remember and adopt some old civil disobedience tactics and rules. AtLast pointed out the different tactics used by different Occupy folks in the greater Bay Area.

The college kids garnered HUGE support because of one asshole cop with a military grade can of pepper spray. The students were actually engaged in civil disobedience. They peacefully demonstrated, risked and were arrested, with their faces fully visible and the entire world saw that stupid cop spraying them. There is no better single picture of kids sitting down with locked arms being sprayed in the face. Peaceful protest with a message the world will hear.

Contrast that with pictures of folks with covered faces throwing rocks, bottles, ______ at police. Those same folks are also throwing rocks and breaking store windows, spray painting 'fuck the pigs' and 'occupy oakland' on businesses across downtown. They have their faces covered and tear down fences and run into buildings full of folks at the Y to avoid being arrested. All that, will be on the news and violence will be the topic and nothing will be said about the social justice movement.

I dunno..........which tactic makes more sense?

I don't believe anyone outside of Oakland actually understands what the children of the 'hood experience as part of their daily lives. I don't believe anyone has the right to suggest a 'teaching moment' should occur unless they are teaching in the schools that have the helicopters over head. Today the job of teachers is to spoon feed facts that will be on the tests the children have to take. Critical thinking is not part of any (inner) city public school system and under current policy that will not change. Let none of us who are not in the classrooms of inner city schools pretend we have any idea of what a 'teaching moment' should be.