OCCUPY WALL STREET

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Toughy

IF they would knock off all that bullshit, then the police would not behave the way they do.

I can barely fathom that people who witnessed the vicious and unprovoked attacks by para-military police forces across the country perpetrated on non-violent groups of citizens exercising their right to protest would have those kind of expectations of the police. But even those who can still manage that kind of faith could certainly understand that others, especially those others on the front lines of this protest movement, might have a different expectation.

Way to go guys......big help to your fellow 98-99 percenters......and what have you done to effect change in money in politics and the influence of multi-national corporations and their continuing destruction of our democracy?

It seems to me that the Occupy movement has made a major difference in how many people, those directly involved, those on the periphery, and even those who only had limited and slanted exposure through the corporate owned media, understand many issues that affect the poor, the working class and the middle class. People understand things much differently than they did before Occupy Wall Street. You can’t change something until you first understand what needs changing. The movement has given people the words to articulate what they knew in their hearts. They knew something is radically wrong. There is a much better understanding of what exactly that is thanks to the movement.

I have a friend who teaches in an elementary school in downtown Oakland. She has spent HOURS of her limited classroom time calming the fears of the kids just trying to go to school and learn to read and write

It would seem to me that this would be a perfect opportunity to open dialogue with students about the Occupy movement and the reasons why so many people feel the need to protest policies perpetrated on them by a corporate controlled government. It would be a great time to begin to educate them regarding some truly frightening things that are happening. Things that will affect their chances to have the life they might wish for themselves. Conversations about the cost of public university education for residents as well as the chances for enrollment might be beneficial. Perhaps a look at interesting educational choices that are being made in places such as Tucson Az and the long term effects of this type of censorship. Maybe even examining the very real possibility of public education going the way of the prison and foster care systems and becoming privatized and what that will mean for students and their futures. All valid and useful conversations for kids to engage in and infinitely more frightening than any Occupy protest I would imagine.

uhhhhh..........exactly what has the Occupy Oakland group done to dispel the violence of poverty? why are the protesters in downtown Oakland and not out in the affluent neighborhood terrorizing those children who are mostly white? Why are the OO protests scaring the shit out of mostly kids of color in downtown schools?

I don’t think the idea of the Occupy Movement is to terrorize children of any color. I think they are in downtown Oakland rather than affluent neighborhoods terrorizing white kids because terrorizing kids is not the focus of the movement. I don’t think I’m even capable of having this conversation…

While I was trying to respond to this last paragraph about the Occupy movement terrorizing children it came to me that I am really wasting my time here. I had missed something quite important. I had failed to realize that this thread had morphed into a place for people who do not support the Occupy movement, or who have issues with the direction the movement is taking or not taking as the case may be. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and should be able to have a place to discuss them with like-minded people. Since I am not like-minded I will now bow out of this thread.

[SoNotHer]

I agree with so much written here. Inasmuch as I think it's important for the queer community to examine its own internalized homophobia and isms on a regular basis, it's important for this any movement to analyze the ways in which we've stopped challenging and believing and have gone back to accepting the status quo because it is, after all, what we know so why not learn to love the bomb.

The protests will continue, whether we protest the protests, or not, and as long as inequality continues and in fact thrives. And whether or not we deflect and redirect the fight internally or we actually direct our energies toward change - well that's all up to us.

This is the threat to our lives. We all face it. We all operate in our society in relation to a system. Now is the system going to eat you up and relieve you of your humanity or are you going to be able to use the system to human purposes?

Joseph Campbell

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

I can barely fathom that people who witnessed the vicious and unprovoked attacks by para-military police forces across the country perpetrated on non-violent groups of citizens exercising their right to protest would have those kind of expectations of the police. But even those who can still manage that kind of faith could certainly understand that others, especially those others on the front lines of this protest movement, might have a different expectation.


It seems to me that the Occupy movement has made a major difference in how many people, those directly involved, those on the periphery, and even those who only had limited and slanted exposure through the corporate owned media, understand many issues that affect the poor, the working class and the middle class. People understand things much differently than they did before Occupy Wall Street. You can’t change something until you first understand what needs changing. The movement has given people the words to articulate what they knew in their hearts. They knew something is radically wrong. There is a much better understanding of what exactly that is thanks to the movement.


It would seem to me that this would be a perfect opportunity to open dialogue with students about the Occupy movement and the reasons why so many people feel the need to protest policies perpetrated on them by a corporate controlled government. It would be a great time to begin to educate them regarding some truly frightening things that are happening. Things that will affect their chances to have the life they might wish for themselves. Conversations about the cost of public university education for residents as well as the chances for enrollment might be beneficial. Perhaps a look at interesting educational choices that are being made in places such as Tucson Az and the long term effects of this type of censorship. Maybe even examining the very real possibility of public education going the way of the prison and foster care systems and becoming privatized and what that will mean for students and their futures. All valid and useful conversations for kids to engage in and infinitely more frightening than any Occupy protest I would imagine.


I don’t think the idea of the Occupy Movement is to terrorize children of any color. I think they are in downtown Oakland rather than affluent neighborhoods terrorizing white kids because terrorizing kids is not the focus of the movement. I don’t think I’m even capable of having this conversation…

While I was trying to respond to this last paragraph about the Occupy movement terrorizing children it came to me that I am really wasting my time here. I had missed something quite important. I had failed to realize that this thread had morphed into a place for people who do not support the Occupy movement, or who have issues with the direction the movement is taking or not taking as the case may be. Everyone is entitled to an opinion and should be able to have a place to discuss them with like-minded people. Since I am not like-minded I will now bow out of this thread.

[SoNotHer]

http://sumofus.org/campaigns/bofa/

"Dear Mr. Moynihan - I was disappointed to learn about Bank of America's sudden recall of credit lines for many of its small business customers. These small businesses are vital to our economy, and are particularly vulnerable at a time when our country is still coming out of the recession. Please take a stand for entrepreneurs and don't force these businesses into refinancing at punishing rates. Thank you."

Bank of America is squeezing the most vulnerable businesses in our economy, our small businesses that employ millions of Americans, by recalling, with no prior notice, the long-term loans they need to survive. The alternatives Bank of America offers are stark: if these mom and pop operations cannot repay their loans immediately, they face either bankruptcy or refinancing at punishingly high interest rates. This money grab by BoA is guaranteed to have two results: line Bank of America’s pockets with more cash, and force the surviving small businesses into even thinner profit margins and even more layoffs.

This is utterly unacceptable from a company that would not even exist today if it hadn’t been bailed out itself with our tax dollars. More than ever, we need our small businesses, and this is the wrong action at the wrong time. Tell Bank of America President Brian Moynihan to stop putting the squeeze on small business.

[Toughy]

Miss Tick please don't take your toys and go home. Why not look at ALL aspects of a social justice movement?

The Oakland PD will never change. It has a history going back to the 60s with federal consent decrees and legal monitors and it does not matter who is mayor or who is the police chief. They have not been able to change their culture. It does not make me happy, but I am a realist.

The best chance we have is to remember and adopt some old civil disobedience tactics and rules. AtLast pointed out the different tactics used by different Occupy folks in the greater Bay Area.

The college kids garnered HUGE support because of one asshole cop with a military grade can of pepper spray. The students were actually engaged in civil disobedience. They peacefully demonstrated, risked and were arrested, with their faces fully visible and the entire world saw that stupid cop spraying them. There is no better single picture of kids sitting down with locked arms being sprayed in the face. Peaceful protest with a message the world will hear.

Contrast that with pictures of folks with covered faces throwing rocks, bottles, ______ at police. Those same folks are also throwing rocks and breaking store windows, spray painting 'fuck the pigs' and 'occupy oakland' on businesses across downtown. They have their faces covered and tear down fences and run into buildings full of folks at the Y to avoid being arrested. All that, will be on the news and violence will be the topic and nothing will be said about the social justice movement.

I dunno..........which tactic makes more sense?

I don't believe anyone outside of Oakland actually understands what the children of the 'hood experience as part of their daily lives. I don't believe anyone has the right to suggest a 'teaching moment' should occur unless they are teaching in the schools that have the helicopters over head. Today the job of teachers is to spoon feed facts that will be on the tests the children have to take. Critical thinking is not part of any (inner) city public school system and under current policy that will not change. Let none of us who are not in the classrooms of inner city schools pretend we have any idea of what a 'teaching moment' should be.

[atomiczombie]

I think there might be some confusion about whether Toughy is criticizing just Occupy Oakland or the Occupy movement as a whole. I hear her talking specifically about Occupy Oakland and it's choice of tactics and not about the movement as a whole and the merits of it's existence/tactics. Toughy, am I correct?

[Toughy]

Drew you are correct......laughin...............but

If folks think the middle of the country is supportive of the occupy movement...........well maybe you should get out in the middle of the US. I simply said Occupy and my intelligent thoughtful brother-in-law went off like a frigging rocket and actually had to leave the house. Middle america see Oakland with masked folks breaking windows, tearing down fences, breaking into City Hall and basically destroying the first floor and the police trying to control the situation.

And that scene is repeated across the US.

We lost the national political capital (and Obama) when the cop with the pepper spray and the cause of the Occupy movement disappeared and was replaced by masked mostly men reeking havoc on a city somewhere in the US.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Miss Tick please don't take your toys and go home.

I’m sorry, I didn’t mean to sound so dramatic. And in hindsight I should have shut up about shutting up. This really isn’t about taking my toys and going home. I have participated in this thread pretty much since its inception and it feels bad to discover how it has changed. And that’s about ME, meaning it feels bad for ME, not necessarily for anyone else. I am not saying there is anything bad in differing opinions. It's just this thread had never been, for me, about a place to debate differing ideology. There are lots of threads to do that. It felt more like a convergence. A place to bear witness; to share something quite magical. But that time has past. It just isn’t going to work for me any longer. I don’t believe I have anything constructive to offer. I can’t even figure out how to engage in the conversation. I realized this while trying to address how Occupy Oakland is terrorizing school children. But I hope the thread continues to be a productive outlet for others.

[Slowpurr]

I am sorry that anyone has personally been affected by the situation in Chicago.

I have reason to believe that people have felt personally obligated and were brought to action because they have been affected by the political machine that is eating them and their families alive. I am compelled to urge thinking folk to remain alert to why the OWS movement began in the first place and to why it has taken on such momentum. There is an underlying problem with the current trends of the government. It is apparent in how we view our world. Money, power and control are not the answers and they become less attractive when they affect the way we treat our environment and disregard the basic needs of even our own citizens. The OWS movement has attracted and mobilized many people and these participants are not just students, ner'er- do-wells or anarchists. One only needs to read or watch information about the movement to illuminate this. Take the time to meet some of the people that have put themselves out there.

I do not judge a police force by the actions of one or two officers and I will extend the same courtesy to other groups of individuals. The consideration may not truly be worthy of the one or two officers but it is certainly worthy of the ideal behind the service and to those that respect it. I extend the same respect to those folk taking their time and energy in a cause that they believe in. The cause has merit, deserves my respect and has it.

Miss Tick, prepare for blatant manipulation. I would be extremely shocked and disappointed if you gave up sharing the insight and information that I know is held dear by you, I also know that you thrive on and deeply cherish the exchange of ideas. I would feel the same if anyone that posts here felt like they were no longer being heard. If the unpopular ideas and information that you have grown fat on and that sustain you today were no longer available how would you survive? It is a service to share. It is a duty. Will it be met with falsehoods, aggressive assaults or just plain indifference? You tell me. Isn't that what the fight is about? Make a difference. I, for one, greatly appreciate your input. xo

"Truth is not determined by majority vote." ~Doug Gwyn

[AtLast]

One of the most important aspects of the entire Occupy movement is having a forum to both agree and disagree and be heard. Also, every city that is participating with protests has it's unique regional flavor. To me, this has been helpful to better understand things outside of my own region and what others are experiencing. This is part of the beauty of the entire movement.

Although it was hard to take criticism back in the 60's about social movements and our discourse as activists, it was an important aspect of growth in order to effect change. No way will all of us agree with tactics utilized. Being able to discuss these things is important and for me, at the core of how Occupy will continue to bring awareness about inequity in the US.

[Slowpurr]

Thank you to those who pointed out my typo. Oakland. I stand corrected. Proof reading at 5am is just out of the question. Sorry.

[SoNotHer]

Larry Cohen has the kind of "fire in the belly" that inspires, inspires, inspires. This motivates me, and I want to see this kind of fight for workers' rights across the country and with other fields:




Here's the sample letter that gets sent to your representatives.



Watch the video to find out why then call 1-888-516-5820 to connect to your Senator's office.

When you are connected say:

Hello, my name is _____ and I am a constituent. I am calling to ask the Senator not to pass the FAA Reauthorization Bill with the unrelated labor provision that would gut collective bargaining rights for aviation and rail workers. This has no place in a bill for funding of aviation safety, heath and security. Get it out of the bill or don't pass it. Thank you.

From -

http://www.cwa-union.org/video/entry...s#.Ty128PmLKSM