only another butch would understand

AtLast · 02-20-2010, 01:00 PM

Hummmm.... thinking I don't buy Kleenex/tissue either and live alone, but for the life of me, I just can't see most of this kind of stuff in relationship to my being butch. I might feel badly about not having some real tissue to offer but this has to do with courtesy, not my butchness.

Sure, I have had some only a butch/guy would do that from femmes. My first reaction is correcting the use of guy with me. Secondly, I have no connection to anything around de-masculinization and find it personally insulting. There is nothing to de, or emasculate with me. I am not a man and my masculine traits are just part of the female I am.

And if I had to somehow defend my butch identity based upon stereotypes of men and male behavior, I would be out the door!

No, this butch does not understand much of this. But, some of you do, so all is good. Sometimes when I ask my son (an adult) about some of these kinds of references to men/masculine traits as applied to butches, he just shakes his head..... and says he’s glad I’m the butch woman I am because all that man-crap is so oppressive. And yes, he would most likely go get his wife the box of tissues. It would be about not touching them before she used them (a cleanliness thang and not knowing how many she wants).

KayCee · 02-20-2010, 02:11 PM

My goodness, next time I'll just use toilet paper to blow my nose and put the towels up myself, huh? It's not about id's, feeling insulted, non-respected or what ever or how to present a box of Kleenex. It's the different way we think/act what amuses us and as some would say, having typical male or female traits which lets us feel more butch or femme.

And the way my GUY and I feel comfortable with this or not, is between us.

Please, excuse me for 'infiltrating' your butch thread. I don't need this...really.

Kat

I'mOneToo · 02-20-2010, 02:53 PM

I don't go into threads that are specifically intended for femme discussion, although sometimes i do read them sometimes. I wouldn't comment about which mascara to use or what kind of purse or high heels they're discussing because it's not relevant to my life. I suppose I could make some smartass comments and ridicule those things just to see my words and try to get a reaction, but it would be a negative reaction.

By the same token, some threads such as this, which says "only another butch would understand", has a title that's a little vague. Maybe it should say "only a MALE *ID'd* BUTCH WOULD UNDERSTAND". Because now there's divisiveness about this type of butch might, and another type of butch might in fact NOT understand.

Then you may get a femme who does a drive-by that is purely designed to ridicule the thread and the people posting in it. That may get picked up by a butch who is not of the "understanding" persuasion, and it can get to be a free-for-all.

Maybe the name of the thread could be changed. Or, maybe people who can't identify with the topic could refrain from commenting and inciting others to continue in that divisive vein. But that's just my opinion, which IT, and 5 dollars, will get you a cafe mocha grande.

Kat, you did not infiltrate. I think have a right to have your say if you feel you are being maligned, in any thread.

Queerasfck · 02-20-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'mOneToo

Then you may get a femme who does a drive-by that is purely designed to ridicule the thread and the people posting in it. That may get picked up by a butch who is not of the "understanding" persuasion, and it can get to be a free-for-all.

That woman, sheeesh. Drivin by and stuff. Wish she'd never got the vote.

I'mOneToo · 02-20-2010, 03:48 PM

which came first -- the women being allowed to drive, or the women being allowed to vote?

Quote:

Originally Posted by EzeeTiger

That woman, sheeesh. Drivin by and stuff. Wish she'd never got the vote.

AtLast · 02-20-2010, 04:08 PM

I do need to say that some of this stuff can be funny, and even endearing between partners. This is not lost on me at all. I have a sensitivity to gender stereotypes as well as how they get placed upon both butches and femmes, but this doesn't mean I don't get the closeness that comes from our personal interactions and processes.

I know I can get as upset with stereotypes of men/males as much as with female/women and that goes for the horrible assumptions I see about my male-identified, trans/FtM/MtF/IG brothers & sisters along with what female-identified butches get thrown at them (us). Sometimes when I see it in our own (all of us) space, it just makes me mad. There is so much of it in the real-time world for each and every one of us on countless levels.

I do want to make certain that my previous comments were not really about identifications here, but simply stereotypes of men and masculinity which I actually don't like being thrown at non-female-identified butches as much as men/males of every part of our diverse (and proud) community of butches.

apretty · 02-20-2010, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'mOneToo

Then you may get a femme who does a drive-by that is purely designed to ridicule the thread and the people posting in it. That may get picked up by a butch who is not of the "understanding" persuasion, and it can get to be a free-for-all.

Kat, you did not infiltrate. I think have a right to have your say if you feel you are being maligned, in any thread.

why's Kat get to come in here and i don't?

i ain't ridiculing nothin'! i was getting in touch with my only-a-butch-would-understand side! u ain't dean thoreau, this ain't your thread to bar me from!

have your dumb thread!

I'mOneToo · 02-20-2010, 03:44 PM

lol.

well you are right about that. i got the general impression by the words she wrote, that somethin had blowed up that shouldn'ta. dean rarely stops by to tends his fires. nobody said you couldn't come in, there isn't a sign that says "NO GURLZ ALOWD" on it. but if you do, just know that some of the butches who don't even understand each other too well, sometimes don't understand the femmes who come drivin-by.

next time i get in touch with my femme side i'll be sure and stop over on one of those femme threads and ... well... see it's just exactly the opposite. if i were to do that, i would be ridiculed for it. so how come it's okay to come in with your butch side, obviously failing to understand? let me expound...

i don't know about the other butches here, whether male id'd or not, who use a shotgun to clean their room. they left that part of my manual out. so either you are doing something wrong, or the rest of us have been using a technique never mentioned before.

do you blow a shell into the pot, and then plant the mint?

Quote:

Originally Posted by apretty

why's Kat get to come in here and i don't?

i ain't ridiculing nothin'! i was getting in touch with my only-a-butch-would-understand side! u ain't dean thoreau, this ain't your thread to bar me from!

have your dumb thread!

Queerasfck · 02-20-2010, 03:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'mOneToo

lol.

i don't know about the other butches here, whether male id'd or not, who use a shotgun to clean their room. they left that part of my manual out. so either you are doing something wrong, or the rest of us have been using a technique never mentioned before.

do you blow a shell into the pot, and then plant the mint?

She's a gun nut.

I'mOneToo · 02-20-2010, 03:59 PM

ah. that explains everything.

come to think of it, the easiest way to do the dishes is blow them to smithereens and go buy new ones. i might try that myself.

amending section 4, item C, subsection 2a, the manual now reads: shotgun and shells are handy for cleaning room, potting plant, and cleaning dishes.

please circulate in triplicate

Quote:

Originally Posted by EzeeTiger

She's a gun nut.

apretty · 02-20-2010, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by I'mOneToo

lol.

well you are right about that. i got the general impression by the words she wrote, that somethin had blowed up that shouldn'ta. dean rarely stops by to tends his fires. nobody said you couldn't come in, there isn't a sign that says "NO GURLZ ALOWD" on it. but if you do, just know that some of the butches who don't even understand each other too well, sometimes don't understand the femmes who come drivin-by. you're right, and thank you!

next time i get in touch with my femme side i'll be sure and stop over on one of those femme threads and ... well... see it's just exactly the opposite. if i were to do that, i would be ridiculed for it. so how come it's okay to come in with your butch side, obviously failing to understand? let me expound... don't worry 'bout them ladies have a problem with sharing their thread-space, they need a strong (handsome!) butch-type to wrangle in their emotional-postings!

i don't know about the other butches here, whether male id'd or not, who use a shotgun to clean their room. they left that part of my manual out. so either you are doing something wrong, or the rest of us have been using a technique never mentioned before.

do you blow a shell into the pot, and then plant the mint?

the gun's an extension of my masculinity

truthfully, i used the gun b/c my indifference to gun-ownership drives EZ crazy, plus it's there and i like the subversive little icons, i wish there was a purse-size pistol, but what can you do.

we're bros-4-ever, now--your response to me cracked me up.

(maybe i spoke too soon, EZ is questioning my need for a bro, bro) :P

I'mOneToo · 02-20-2010, 04:51 PM

hahaha well yep bro i guess so i needed another brother anyway, the only one i got speaks only to me through his spokesperson. you at least dialog direct. maybe ezee could be YOUR spokesperson then i'd have two bro's with spokespeople.

as long as you're here, got any special butch laundry tips? please don't pull out the scissors tool, or a gun, can't afford a new wardrobe.

Quote:

Originally Posted by apretty

the gun's an extension of my masculinity

truthfully, i used the gun b/c my indifference to gun-ownership drives EZ crazy, plus it's there and i like the subversive little icons, i wish there was a purse-size pistol, but what can you do.

we're bros-4-ever, now--your response to me cracked me up.

(maybe i spoke too soon, EZ is questioning my need for a bro, bro) :P

02-20-2010, 02:11 PM	#2
KayCee Member How Do You Identify?: Multifaceted Queer Femme Preferred Pronoun?: It's a secret Relationship Status: And from my lips hye drew the hallelujah Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Somewhere over the rainbow clicking my heels Posts: 732 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 2,646 Thanked 1,722 Times in 521 Posts Rep Power: 8635875	My goodness, next time I'll just use toilet paper to blow my nose and put the towels up myself, huh? It's not about id's, feeling insulted, non-respected or what ever or how to present a box of Kleenex. It's the different way we think/act what amuses us and as some would say, having typical male or female traits which lets us feel more butch or femme. And the way my GUY and I feel comfortable with this or not, is between us. Please, excuse me for 'infiltrating' your butch thread. I don't need this...really. Kat __________________ "Being Femme means my feminism and my femininity walk hand in hand "

02-20-2010, 01:00 PM	#1
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,827 Times in 3,199 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	Hummmm.... thinking I don't buy Kleenex/tissue either and live alone, but for the life of me, I just can't see most of this kind of stuff in relationship to my being butch. I might feel badly about not having some real tissue to offer but this has to do with courtesy, not my butchness. Sure, I have had some only a butch/guy would do that from femmes. My first reaction is correcting the use of guy with me. Secondly, I have no connection to anything around de-masculinization and find it personally insulting. There is nothing to de, or emasculate with me. I am not a man and my masculine traits are just part of the female I am. And if I had to somehow defend my butch identity based upon stereotypes of men and male behavior, I would be out the door! No, this butch does not understand much of this. But, some of you do, so all is good. Sometimes when I ask my son (an adult) about some of these kinds of references to men/masculine traits as applied to butches, he just shakes his head..... and says he’s glad I’m the butch woman I am because all that man-crap is so oppressive. And yes, he would most likely go get his wife the box of tissues. It would be about not touching them before she used them (a cleanliness thang and not knowing how many she wants).

02-20-2010, 02:53 PM	#3
I'mOneToo Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: left of right Relationship Status: right of left Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: ]centered[ Posts: 321 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 587 Thanked 513 Times in 184 Posts Rep Power: 2132875	I don't go into threads that are specifically intended for femme discussion, although sometimes i do read them sometimes. I wouldn't comment about which mascara to use or what kind of purse or high heels they're discussing because it's not relevant to my life. I suppose I could make some smartass comments and ridicule those things just to see my words and try to get a reaction, but it would be a negative reaction. By the same token, some threads such as this, which says "only another butch would understand", has a title that's a little vague. Maybe it should say "only a MALE ID'd BUTCH WOULD UNDERSTAND". Because now there's divisiveness about this type of butch might, and another type of butch might in fact NOT understand. Then you may get a femme who does a drive-by that is purely designed to ridicule the thread and the people posting in it. That may get picked up by a butch who is not of the "understanding" persuasion, and it can get to be a free-for-all. Maybe the name of the thread could be changed. Or, maybe people who can't identify with the topic could refrain from commenting and inciting others to continue in that divisive vein. But that's just my opinion, which IT, and 5 dollars, will get you a cafe mocha grande. Kat, you did not infiltrate. I think have a right to have your say if you feel you are being maligned, in any thread.

02-20-2010, 04:08 PM	#6
AtLast Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Woman Preferred Pronoun?: HER - SHE Relationship Status: Relating Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: CA & AZ I'm a Snowbird Posts: 5,408 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 11,826 Thanked 10,827 Times in 3,199 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	I do need to say that some of this stuff can be funny, and even endearing between partners. This is not lost on me at all. I have a sensitivity to gender stereotypes as well as how they get placed upon both butches and femmes, but this doesn't mean I don't get the closeness that comes from our personal interactions and processes. I know I can get as upset with stereotypes of men/males as much as with female/women and that goes for the horrible assumptions I see about my male-identified, trans/FtM/MtF/IG brothers & sisters along with what female-identified butches get thrown at them (us). Sometimes when I see it in our own (all of us) space, it just makes me mad. There is so much of it in the real-time world for each and every one of us on countless levels. I do want to make certain that my previous comments were not really about identifications here, but simply stereotypes of men and masculinity which I actually don't like being thrown at non-female-identified butches as much as men/males of every part of our diverse (and proud) community of butches.