A straight girl enters the queer world...

[BullDog]

I am a stone butch. I never felt anyone should have to put more effort into understanding me or my issues anymore than I would put effort into understanding them and their issues. I've also made it quite clear that no one should ever have to change because of me. It will only work if we are compatible and we both are true to ourselves.

[DeviantDaddy]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I am a stone butch. I never felt anyone should have to put more effort into understanding me or my issues anymore than I would put effort into understanding them and their issues. I've also made it quite clear that no one should ever have to change because of me. It will only work if we are compatible and we both are true to ourselves.

Bull, pardon my bluntness, but what your saying could be interpreted as "I love you, but have no interest in getting to know you" could it not?

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by DeviantDaddy

Bull, pardon my bluntness, but what your saying could be interpreted as "I love you, but have no interest in getting to know you" could it not?

Huh?
Me putting as much interest into getting to know her and her issues as she did mine would be me showing no interest?

[DeviantDaddy]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Huh?
Me putting as much interest into getting to know her and her issues as she did mine would be me showing no interest?

Ah, okay. Misunderstood you then. I was under the impression you were stating that you would not put forth effort in getting to know her and wouldn't expect her to do the same.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by DeviantDaddy

Ah, okay. Misunderstood you then. I was under the impression you were stating that you would not put forth effort in getting to know her and wouldn't expect her to do the same.

the exact opposite

[Julie]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I am a stone butch. I never felt anyone should have to put more effort into understanding me or my issues anymore than I would put effort into understanding them and their issues. I've also made it quite clear that no one should ever have to change because of me. It will only work if we are compatible and we both are true to ourselves.

Bully,

That is you and that has worked for you and I am glad it has. My previous partner did not expect me to put effort into it. I was entering into a relationship and chose to learn as much about her as possible. In fact, it was effortless for me, because I loved her.

As far as wanting her to put effort into knowing me and my issues. Damn right I did. I want her to care enough about me to take the time to learn about me and my quirks/issues. When I was diagnosed with Cancer - I wanted her to know every little thing about my cancer without me having to explain it to her.

Julie

[BullDog]

Yes of course Julie. If we care about a partner or prospective partner we are going to want to get know all about them and their issues.

[DeviantDaddy]

Originally Posted by Julie

As far as wanting her to put effort into knowing me and my issues. Damn right I did. I want her to care enough about me to take the time to learn about me and my quirks/issues. When I was diagnosed with Cancer - I wanted her to know every little thing about my cancer without me having to explain it to her.

Agreed. One of the very things that attracted me to kitten when we first met was how incredibly, eager, she was to get to know me. My past, my present and all that I wanted for my future. Then when I got ill, she took it upon herself to research it and understand it.

[DaddysKitten]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I am a stone butch. I never felt anyone should have to put more effort into understanding me or my issues anymore than I would put effort into understanding them and their issues. I've also made it quite clear that no one should ever have to change because of me. It will only work if we are compatible and we both are true to ourselves.

I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that. It almost sounds like you would take little interest, therefor expect them to not put much effort in either. But I will not assume that is what you meant, perhaps I just read it wrong. And perhaps the wording you choose is what is making people grow semi-offensive at your comments.


I am a straight woman who always dated cis-gendered males. When I came into this with Daddy, I didn't want to change for him, I wanted to understand, as Laney and Julie have put it, that it was something I wanted to venture into. And I refused to do such blindly.

Perhaps when someone does have a particular taste, it is more natural, and just 'understood', to them. But I didn't have that understanding. Did I have the acceptance? Yes, I will thank my lesbian mother for all of that, being who she is was a lesson to me, to never judge others of alternate lifestyles/relations.

But I was a 'straight woman'. Though I jumped into the research like a new college student preparing his first 4.0 dissertation, I still had my fears. What if I wasn't ok, with all of it. And how could I make an educated decision, on what I could handle and accept, without knowing intricately every detail I could possibly learn about him.

I didn't see it as this big horrible thing called 'effort', I saw it as a way to truly begin to love him, because without knowing every detail, how can anyone say they 'love' someone as who they are? How many times, have you heard of, or been in a relationship where someone learned something new, and had to walk away? I can't say that it is something I would call 'love'. Then again, I go for it all, I refuse to settle for anything less.

Still, when Daddy and I talk about it all, his choices, his decisions, his desires in regards to everything, from going out to eat, to the surgeries he is considering, or the going on T. I ask SO many questions about it all. "ok, given your medical history, could this have adverse effects?" "is this dangerous to your existing issues?" "Did you ask about this, or that?"

If I did not take an interest in researching, and understanding those things, I would be lost, and therefor, without the reason and thought I offered him, he could possibly not think of something, that in the end could render him badly damaged for the rest of his life. Yes, this is a bit drastic in regards to most things, but if I did not know what all of this required, how could I truly ensure his safety? his well-being?

And do not take this, as me saying my Daddy is incompetent, I can see it coming already. But everyone needs another opinion, not everyone thinks up every possible detail. And this is just one way that I love him, completely.

[BullDog]

DaddysKitten, I said I would take just as much interest as hers. Stop twisting my words. I had already clarified that, even though it was quite clear in the original post.

[DeviantDaddy]

Bull,

1. She wasn't twisting your words.
2. Your post was not clear, ergo questions.
3. Refer to the very start of her post to yours.

Originally Posted by DaddysKitten

I'm not exactly sure what you meant by that. It almost sounds like you would take little interest, therefor expect them to not put much effort in either. But I will not assume that is what you meant, perhaps I just read it wrong. And perhaps the wording you choose is what is making people grow semi-offensive at your comments.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by DeviantDaddy

Bull,

1. She wasn't twisting your words.
2. Your post was not clear, ergo questions.
3. Refer to the very start of her post to yours.

I have myself perfectly clear and I have also clarified time and time again.

[DaddysKitten]

Originally Posted by BullDog

DaddysKitten, I said I would take just as much interest as hers. Stop twisting my words. I had already clarified that, even though it was quite clear in the original post.

You seem to be quite volatile, when addressing others. I was not twisting anything, I was asking for clarification on your statement. And had you dropped out of defensive mode for a moment, you would have seen me very politely mentioning that perhaps you should rethink your wording a little so people are not twisting your words, or reading a different understanding of them.

It seems to be happening with many people on this forum. I am not attacking you. Please, do not read it as such. You have enough vehemence coming from others, do not add me to that list, I was anything but.

[apretty]

i had no problem understanding Bulldog's post--the words are fine and given the context, the meaning is clearer than half the posts in this thread.

on-topic, a lot of the discussion seems super invested in what someone else's relationship looks like when really, if it doesn't work out, it's just wasn't a match.

to be clear, the working-out will never hinge on her doing more trans-stuff homework. i mean really, where's the thread where we ring our hands over the man not doing his femme-stuff homework?

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by apretty

to be clear, the working-out will never hinge on her doing more trans-stuff homework. i mean really, where's the thread where we ring our hands over the man not doing his femme-stuff homework?

Precisely. I rarely- if ever- see it. I haven't for over 10 years.

When I started reading this thread I saw it going down the path of so many others I have seen over the years and who was expected to do what. That is what prompted me. If you (the general you) think I am out of turn to talk about then fine, you can think that about me.

[weatherboi]

So what if there are not as many threads about transguys wringing their hands over this. It doesn't equate to transguys here not doing their work or that we are doing it wrong.

[Corkey]

I think it's awfully telling that our mates are the only ones that should be telling us if we're doing it wrong, and I just don't see that happening. Because frankly hers is the only opinion that matters to me.

[Mike]

just to be clear, i have posted in many threads that i think the trans guy should do his homeowrk on himself and his partner. Shes in a transition period too. I have said many times, thst i think the trans guys need that time alone, to find themm self. I think one of my post years ago my words rang as something like this, far to often i see where the partner of ftms are doing all the home work, they know when and where the next appointment is, what his T dose is and so on. better than he does.

I am not saying some guys dont do it differently, and hoepfully its changed some, but it use to be far to many depending on the partner to do all the figuring out if you will. I do think the partner needs to ask the questions, noone is a mind reader. but she needs to take care of herself in the same respect.

[DaddysKitten]

I quoted the wrong part of the quote, lol


I have to disagree, coming from someone who was in this exact predicament myself, many years ago. We see straight couples, every day from birth, just about. We see straight couples on TV. We see straight couples at the grocery store. It's something we are surrounded with every day of our lives, especially if we step outside.

We understand how it works, we understand the underlying issues they are faced. It definitely makes it easier from that standpoint, to learn directly about the person, and not the daily struggles they find themselves facing, especially if they do not 'appear' to the basic concensus as hetero-cis-gendered-straight people. And yes, every relationship faces this.

But what a straight cis-gendered person may never see, or know they see, is a transman or transwoman, and definitely not enough to even begin to understand their day to day life. Much less the deeper fundamentals that make them the individual they are, or how they came to this understanding of themselves.

Even being raised by both my parents, til age 11, and then by my lesbian mother from then on, I had almost next to no understanding, or even knowledge of transgenders. Hell, it took me years to understand that my mother and her lover were lovers. Not everyone is worldly knowledgable of such things. Hell, I thought I could be pregnant when I was kissed at 14. So what a lot of people consider 'common knowledge' especially, as Chancie stated as well.

So we can love someone, but can you truly appreciate someone for all they are, if you lack the basic understanding, as stated with a 'trans' person. Someone who has struggled, more often than not with what is considered 'normal', even amongst their own lesbian/gay/queer brethren. I don't believe this is just 'ok, I'm trans, I love you, that's all you need to know'.

Many have been assaulted for who they are, many have even been killed for who they are. Many have been insulted and put down for their entire lives, many have fought tooth and nail for their rights, and still do. Many have spent countless nights in tears, sobbing, over the confusion, insult, looks, and whatever else they face day to day.

I couldn't say I loved someone, and truly so if I did not wish to know what the person, and others alike, have faced. I would simply lack the understanding, and with a lack of understanding comes a lack of ability to tend the one you love.

I remember, being new to my relationship. I remember the swift inhale of his breath when I would say something out of my ignorance for it all, and though he was so loving and patient, it killed me to make those innocent mistakes because it did bother him. And I never wanted to see him unhappy, or even tinged with a tightening of 'she did that thing'.

So yes, we spent countless hours talking to each other, countless hours of him lecturing me like some college professor who had a very intrigued pupil. I remember the night he told me that he had been jumped by men who had said 'wanna be a man! Fine, we'll teach you how to be a man!' I lay there in bed on the phone, hearing his story, and sobbed silently.

How could they? Why would they? I remember reading his blog post about pumping gas, and how a couple men sat by their work truck laughing and pointing at him. I was infuriated, I wanted to be there to yell at them 'what the fuck are you looking at!?' and then climb all over him and make them envy the person they saw as some freak.

Can we truly not understand these daily struggles, that our lovers face, and support them in all ways in who they are? Do we just expect them to come out and say 'oh yea, by the way, if anyone ever comes to assault me for being who I am, just run'?

I wish communication in a new relationship was that easy. But the non-fairy tale fact of it is, that it is not. Many would see shame in that, many would be afraid the person they love would run. Or be scared to be out in public with them because of these fears.

If I am with someone who has a certain disease, I research it. If I am with someone who has a special needs child, I research it. If I am with someone who has a particular kink, or fancy, I research it. It allowed me to know the questions to ask. As with my relationship, before I was educated enough to really grasp a thorough understanding of it, I didn't have a clue.

But when I went to Daddy and asked him, this and that, and everything else I had read up on, and asked him to clarify, he told me that I took more interest in understanding his issues than any of the women he had ever dealt with before who did live this life, for the majority of their time on this earth, in alternate lifestyles, and even they did not grasp the things I wanted to grasp, and sought the information for, to grasp.

So no, you don't treat someone like a freak or a lab rat because you want to understand their ideals on a variety of things. It's major major interest in knowing everything an individual faces. I know about the straight cis-world. I lived it my entire life. This was new to me, and I wanted to absorb all I could, to better serve him as my partner, my lover, someone I wanted to know every little detail of.

[DeviantDaddy]

Originally Posted by DaddysKitten

But when I went to Daddy and asked him, this and that, and everything else I had read up on, and asked him to clarify, he told me that I took more interest in understanding his issues than any of the women he had ever dealt with before who did live this life, for the majority of their time on this earth, in alternate lifestyles, and even they did not grasp the things I wanted to grasp, and sought the information for, to grasp.

So no, you don't treat someone like a freak or a lab rat because you want to understand their ideals on a variety of things. It's major major interest in knowing everything an individual faces. I know about the straight cis-world. I lived it my entire life. This was new to me, and I wanted to absorb all I could, to better serve him as my partner, my lover, someone I wanted to know every little detail of.

One, of the many reasons, why I treasure you.


As for the debate in regards to transmen researching their heterosexual partners... I can understand the need for many of us who identify as TG to want to know more about their new lady. Of course I took it upon myself to take the time to know exactly how our relationship was effecting, kitten. But in all truth, it is very likely that the reason for there being few posts about such a thing is because straight women are something we grow up with. No matter your home/family specifics, you will be surrounded at school, work, stores, groups, etc.