What makes a Butch "Butch"

[bright_arrow]

I think part of it is the outside appearance. We judge, observe, based on what we see. While that does not make a person, sometimes it is what we base perceptions off of.

When I think of the word 'butch', the way they walk come to mind. You know what I mean, right? 'The walk'. Something about it just makes my heart beat a little faster

When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right?

*smiles*

[musicman]

Nothing MAKES me butch I just am. It's what I have always been. If you put a dress on me I'd still be butch. I'd just be a really bad drag queen.

Musicman

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by musicman

Nothing MAKES me butch I just am. It's what I have always been. If you put a dress on me I'd still be butch. I'd just be a really bad drag queen.

Musicman

THIS.

It's like asking a tree what makes it a tree.

[firegal]

Originally Posted by musicman

Nothing MAKES me butch I just am. It's what I have always been. If you put a dress on me I'd still be butch. I'd just be a really bad drag queen.

Musicman

I,m with you on the bad drag queen,My past partners/gf,s have all loooked so damn sexy in my shirts... but i,m thinking that me in theirs might not get the same reaction.Their is humor in this statement but also i really believe it has some truth to it.

[LaneyDoll]

Originally Posted by musicman

Nothing MAKES me butch I just am. It's what I have always been. If you put a dress on me I'd still be butch. I'd just be a really bad drag queen.

Musicman

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

THIS.

It's like asking a tree what makes it a tree.

I agree! I cannot tell you "why" I identify as femme-I just do.

Additionally, I think it is easier to identify with someone based on their energy than it is their wardrobe. Yes, the wardrobe does provide clues but what if the clothes suit the situation more than they do the person? (I used to date a singer who donned what she referred to as "femme drag" to be in plays although she identified as "genderqueer.")

Just my random thinking...

Edit to add:

As far as this, "Can a Butch dress like a Femme and still be butch inside or is that just to weird," I think it is stereotypical to presume that one should present in a way that goes against their personal nature/style just because the world expects them to look a certain way.

[Quintease]

I dated an idiot once who yelled at me that she was too butch to wear a bikini top. I could understand if we lived in a society where women risked being bashed for wearing bikini tops, but we were going to a beach with a bunch of gays, none of whom really cared about ID. She may have thought she was being big and butch, but how comfortable can you be about your ID if you have to rely on rigid clothing rules to get your message across?

[Novelafemme]

Originally Posted by Quintease

I dated an idiot once who yelled at me that she was too butch to wear a bikini top. I could understand if we lived in a society where women risked being bashed for wearing bikini tops, but we were going to a beach with a bunch of gays, none of whom really cared about ID. She may have thought she was being big and butch, but how comfortable can you be about your ID if you have to rely on rigid clothing rules to get your message across?

I love my honey in a bikini...top and bottoms! Of course she played water polo for years so she has those broad swimmers shoulders. I appreciate the rainbow of varieties that butches can come in...ALL people for that matter! To me it is all about respect, both for yourself and others, and checking your judgement at the door.

[Quintease]

I too am a fan of bikini tops. Not that you get to see them much in this impossibly cold country that I'm in.

[Just_G]

Originally Posted by Quintease

I dated an idiot once who yelled at me that she was too butch to wear a bikini top. I could understand if we lived in a society where women risked being bashed for wearing bikini tops, but we were going to a beach with a bunch of gays, none of whom really cared about ID. She may have thought she was being big and butch, but how comfortable can you be about your ID if you have to rely on rigid clothing rules to get your message across?

Its because people might look and say upon first : She isnt butch...when in fact, she is, but cant make that known to people without having a certain look that she might feel conveys her butchness.

If someone wants to wear a csrtain type of clothing to convey this, then leave them be and let them do what makes them one with how they ID.
Its not about what they where, it is about how what they wear makes them feel. If that makes her an idiot, then I am one proud idiot in all my butchness.
Just my .02

[luv2luvgirls]

I dont know what made me a butch... other than I was just born this way. If my mom put some frilly thing or dress on me as soon as I hit the door to go outside it came off.. I would run the hood neekid rather than wear frilly stuff, thats just how I was. I dont think you can lump us butches in a neat box like that,we have our own tastes and likes about everything *shrugs* even how we like to dress,or what type we are attracted to.

[Cin]

Originally Posted by firegal

I,m with you on the bad drag queen,My past partners/gf,s have all loooked so damn sexy in my shirts... but i,m thinking that me in theirs might not get the same reaction.Their is humor in this statement but also i really believe it has some truth to it.

This got me thinking how for some people it doesn’t seem to be okay for masculine people of any ilk including butches to wear feminine clothing or participate in any ritual deemed feminizing, but for feminine people there doesn’t seem to be this same rigidity. I don’t know if it has to do with masculine borders being patrolled more stringently but that would be my guess. Male has more currency than female so it stands to reason it would be more highly valued and more aggressively monitored. I believe this is what is behind the hatred of both female masculinity and masculine femininity in general.

I remember a past partner of mine expressing her displeasure and concern over my wearing blouses to work ( i changed jobs while we were together and had to get dressed up more). She felt it took away from my butchness. I doubt much of anything could take away my butchness but that’s just me.

I also painted my toenails orange one summer. I thought it looked good with my tan. Again my partner was not a fan. I have never done my fingernails I just don't think I would like it much or do it well. I had enough trouble coloring inside the lines as a kid. Toenails are more forgiving.

My wife doesn't care what I do. She has encouraged me to let my hair grow cause she loves the curls. I don't get the feeling she things my butchness is connected to anything outside myself.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by Miss Tick

This got me thinking how for some people it doesn’t seem to be okay for masculine people of any ilk including butches to wear feminine clothing or participate in any ritual deemed feminizing, but for feminine people there doesn’t seem to be this same rigidity. I don’t know if it has to do with masculine borders being patrolled more stringently but that would be my guess. Male has more currency than female so it stands to reason it would be more highly valued and more aggressively monitored. I believe this is what is behind the hatred of both female masculinity and masculine femininity in general.

I remember a past partner of mine expressing her displeasure and concern over my wearing blouses to work ( i changed jobs while we were together and had to get dressed up more). She felt it took away from my butchness. I doubt much of anything could take away my butchness but that’s just me.

I also painted my toenails orange one summer. I thought it looked good with my tan. Again my partner was not a fan. I have never done my fingernails I just don't think I would like it much or do it well. I had enough trouble coloring inside the lines as a kid. Toenails are more forgiving.

My wife doesn't care what I do. She has encouraged me to let my hair grow cause she loves the curls. I don't get the feeling she things my butchness is connected to anything outside myself.

i'm so glad you posted this. i was wondering the same thing. i have also been told that something i did made me *less femme*. i don't have long nails, that was *less femme*.

Also, When femmes dress up in the butch's white cotton shirt and wear boxers it's all cutesy but if a butch wants to grown long hair or have a manicure they lose the butch card? i don't think so!

My butch could wear/do/say/grow anything She wants and She is still butch. i could pull the engine from your truck, run power tools, curse like a sailor, while wearing Carharts and a baseball cap and not be anything but femme because that is who i am.

[Corkey]

Knows Butches with long hairs, n they are some good lookin' Butches. Says the confident one over here in da corner.

[bright_arrow]

Originally Posted by desd

I think part of it is the outside appearance. We judge, observe, based on what we see. While that does not make a person, sometimes it is what we base perceptions off of.

When I think of the word 'butch', the way they walk come to mind. You know what I mean, right? 'The walk'. Something about it just makes my heart beat a little faster

When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right?

*smiles*

ETA: I think it's the energy. Period!

[Just_G]

Butch just radiates from me. I AM butch, I was born butch...not taught how to be butch. It is who I am, how I act, how I dress, and it is tattooed on me.

I take pride in being butch. I have never known how to act like some females...which to ME, that would be like doing my hair, nails, liking to shop, wearing make-up, accessorising with jewelry, etc. I know that there are even some men that are good at those things....I am not.

The funny thing is, there are some things that a lot of butches like to do that I don't care to do; like working on cars....I cannot stand to get grease and dirt all over my hands and around my cuticles. I sit back and think my buddy Cheech is REALLY butch because he does like to work on cars and stuff, but then he will turn around and say that he thinks I am REALLY butch because I am good at building things and good with tools. We have had this discussion a gazillion times over beer and wings.

I could build a room addition before I could change my oil....lol

Anyway, as far as what makes a butch a butch.....well, that is up to the individual person. I don't really think that anything MAKES someone butch, I think it is just something that is very natural and it comes from within one's heart and soul....their core.

[psykftm]

desd said...

When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right?

*smiles*[/QUOTE]

Dang what a writer! lol but you brought something to mind mind which is great for me with this 'what makes a butch' topic. It would kill me for someone to call me feminine, as to why? The best I can come up with is it is not me.
I know labels suck, but since I'm working on trying to figure out who I am, I love them as descriptions. So my question comes from this scenario as written above
"the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd."
Now if my butch girlfriend did that to me, that would be hot!

I'm having a hard time getting at what I'm trying to get at lol

Being in a butch-butch relationship has turned up some threats to masculinity, like in pictures, she doesn't like it when I have my arm over her shoulder, because it makes her feel less butch. Well then I feel less butch.
I'm sure this is why someone would question a butch-butch relationship, but its so worth it lol!

I don't want to say I have a submissive side. I might, but it can't be considered feminine. I wanna know how other butches feel about these tight areas (if I have described it enough)...hopefully this is all still on topic

take care

[lilapache]

subscribing... will definitely be back tonite...

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by psykbutch

desd said...

When it comes to my partner, it's a multitude of looks, of actions, that make her butch. Does she dress masculine? Yes. From the tips of her cowboy boots to her baggy jeans, to the Skoal can in her back pocket. Button-down men's shirt with a tie, cowboy hat sitting just so. It's the way she drawls "Hey gorgeous", the way her lips turn up when she smiles at me, the smouldering look in her eyes when we make love. It's the way she wraps her arms around me when we go to bed at night, the caress of her fingertips on my face when she brushes my hair back, the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd. It's the loving way she brings me dinner to work, the "I love you" text messages throughout the day, the spontaneous love notes. I realize some of this do not 'mean' butch - they mean love, a partner - but it's what makes my partner 'my butch'.. so it counts, right?

*smiles*

Dang what a writer! lol but you brought something to mind mind which is great for me with this 'what makes a butch' topic. It would kill me for someone to call me feminine, as to why? The best I can come up with is it is not me.
I know labels suck, but since I'm working on trying to figure out who I am, I love them as descriptions. So my question comes from this scenario as written above
"the way her arm encircles my waist when we are walking through a crowd."
Now if my butch girlfriend did that to me, that would be hot!

I'm having a hard time getting at what I'm trying to get at lol

Being in a butch-butch relationship has turned up some threats to masculinity, like in pictures, she doesn't like it when I have my arm over her shoulder, because it makes her feel less butch. Well then I feel less butch.
I'm sure this is why someone would question a butch-butch relationship, but its so worth it lol!

I don't want to say I have a submissive side. I might, but it can't be considered feminine. I wanna know how other butches feel about these tight areas (if I have described it enough)...hopefully this is all still on topic

take care

I will make it short and sweet. Anything and everything a butch does is butch. Period. Full Stop.

Do not ever let anyone tell you that you are less than as a butch or less than as a person, or that your relationship is less than.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by psykbutch

I don't want to say I have a submissive side. I might, but it can't be considered feminine. I wanna know how other butches feel about these tight areas (if I have described it enough)...hopefully this is all still on topic

take care

Please, PLEASE do NOT equate feminine with submissive!

If you have submissive moments or are submissive, then you're a submissive butch. Period.

[psykftm]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Please, PLEASE do NOT equate feminine with submissive!

If you have submissive moments or are submissive, then you're a submissive butch. Period.

Thanks for the dividing line, and calling me out; I really don't know why I felt submissiveness was a feminine quality, instead of being a quality. I will definitely make sure when I'm posting to watch for myself equating feminine/submissive/weakness, but I can sense how wrong it is. Its all I've ever associated with. I've got some issues man, forced into one too many dresses or something. The only submissiveness I know of is abuse, although I keep hearing people put it in a positive or sexy light, there's something out there more then the bullshit I have experienced apparently.

You used the phrase "submissive butch"...that will give me something to ponder.

I think I might be changing the topic slightly here, I apologize