03-10-2010, 06:04 PM | #41 | |||
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still thinking.. go figure
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I've yet to post an ID that says "female ID butch" or "woman ID butch", instead opting for "bulldagger" because it historically describes a butch woman like myself. The flack surrounding defaulting to male when speaking of butch in an online setting is what prompted my responses and concerns. However, I'm thrilled if that's no longer going to be an issue. I sort of doubt it, though. Quote:
Further, the sexism part is what has bothered me all along. The post I made a couple of days ago trying to isolate reasons behind that was meant to address what I believe some of the root causes are for the sexism many of us witness online. Until those things aren't in play or at issue, I don't see much changing for butches in this arena. I'm always hopeful, though. Quote:
Again, I'm always hopeful. Lastly, I'm really done with picking apart my gender. I hope this thread can progress to a discussion of how we, as butches, face the world as women and conquer the patriarchal society's narrow-minded bullshit and not merely the disheartening nonsense we often encounter online. Because, to me, that's where our true strength matters for our entire community. |
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03-10-2010, 06:23 PM | #42 |
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Thinking a lot (and have for years) about both female & male myths. Raising a male child in US society and wanting him to respect women as well as not be constrained by societal definitions of masculinity was difficult. He was not big on the usual sports except ballet (try to do ballet without being athletic) and had a dyke for a parent and grew up in a small, redneck town.
As a butch, some of the stereotypes of what is masculine make me nuts! These did as a heterosexual as well. I see a lot of these stereotypes perpetuated in our community. My female masculinity just does not fit with this at all. Nor do they for male-identified butches. |
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03-10-2010, 08:03 PM | #43 | |
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I think Ink will be just fine, not all of us are are all that interested in dissecting ourselves over a brew. I don't know about everyone else but aside from a few B-F get togethers for the most part we hang in a pretty mixed crowd too. Truth though I can't blame you on the online stuff, it's crazy making. Think I'd be pretty used to it, and I love the community but damn... I've definitely never had so many wtf moments r/l. I'm sure I've caused a few of those in others though also... go figure But I have to say the ID stuff I've had enough of (on my part) and I really just want to just be... feels fucking good. Any way yep, I do think we agree. Hey, let me know when you two get over here, won't quite be neighbors but if you two head down the coast it might be good to share a brew... and talk about non-gender related issues...
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03-10-2010, 08:14 PM | #44 | |
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My answers in bold...
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Back to you regularly scheduled program.
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03-10-2010, 08:24 PM | #45 | |
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I fly solo
"convey level of butchiness"
This is true to me.... Its a reason why I spend more time with my gay friends (men) and queens because we talk, joke & support each other's choices in life. Its wonderful that we have this avenue to discuss but at the end of the day in my world I don't find any kinship with the butches I know but for 1 I find more freindship here online ...hell maybe its because I've been flying solo for so long? I'm a very appraochable person I feel a competative nature everytime I am in a group of butchess its not fun it's more of a test! I careless what people think I'm made of and in the same breath wish for more understanding. Thankyou for this thread Quote:
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03-10-2010, 09:21 PM | #46 |
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This is a fascinating thread on a subject that has been on my mind a lot lately. Whem, I first came out, albeit shortly after The Last Supper, identity was relatively simple. Aside from the individual identifiers, the "lesbian" community was about women who were sexually and emotionally attracted to other women.
Today, I see a very strong masculine presence in the community in various forms. It is disconcerting. I talk to way to many young lesbians who are not only confused about their sexual orientation but their gender preference as well. Maybe it is expanding the possibilities, but I liked it better when life was simplier.
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03-10-2010, 09:27 PM | #47 |
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Shout Out
Proud Butch Woman here. Represent!
Enjoying the thread- thanks to all who have posted.
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03-10-2010, 09:44 PM | #48 | |
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I'm wondering what's "disconcerting" to you about "masculine presence" in our communities. I would certainly hope my masculinity wouldn't be disconcerting to anyone, especially in LBGQT communities. Perhaps I'm misunderstanding you.. but I'm slightly perplexed with that statement... especially in a Butch Femme forum? Thanx in advance for any explanation... Metro *And a big hey to Cyclopea for representin' Free ===> *s* . .
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03-10-2010, 10:13 PM | #49 | |
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03-10-2010, 11:19 PM | #50 |
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"I'm wondering what's "disconcerting" to you about "masculine presence" in our communities. I would certainly hope my masculinity wouldn't be disconcerting to anyone, especially in LBGQT communities."
Hi Metro By "masculine presence" , and I will apologize in advance to anyone I might inadvertently offend, I was referring to lesbians who disown their femaleness.
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03-11-2010, 12:08 AM | #51 | ||
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I don't think that should be disconcerting to someone it doesn't really have two hoots to do with anyhow, but it's your prerogative, I just don't agree. There's room for all of us. Metro
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03-11-2010, 12:34 AM | #52 |
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"Ok, I understand, but will say I don't find that disconcerting at all... some peeps just need to be themselves, and if they aren't female then the simply aren't female.
I don't think that should be disconcerting to someone it doesn't really have two hoots to do with anyhow, but it's your prerogative, I just don't agree." Metro, The nice thing about the world is we all are entitled to our opinions. And we nicely agree to disagree. Male energy is much different from female energy. And, there is a distinct difference in interactions. But thats just my opinion.
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03-11-2010, 01:11 AM | #53 |
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the thing is
I'm wary of defining energy on top of all the other definitions floating around that serve only to constrict or limit me and/or my choices.
I'm very masculine in terms of my presentation and my "energy" - or so I've been told - but that doesn't equate to male. It is female masculinity. I wear it proudly. I'm still a woman. That juxtaposition is where I feel my butch energy. And yes, if one is not a female, there's no reason to claim woman, and many in these forums are not lesbians. That doesn't make anyone who owns their male identity unwelcome in space we all share equally. This is a community of queers of many stripes, and as Metropolis said, there's plenty of room for us all. Beau |
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03-11-2010, 10:15 AM | #54 | |||
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Kobi, Maybe you could come back in and be more specific about what you're trying to say. Because right now I read it as you trying to be the gender police.
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03-11-2010, 10:30 AM | #55 |
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03-11-2010, 10:37 AM | #56 |
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The energy thing assumes all others can read it loud and clear. That's not always the case. The energy thing, i think, has more to do with dynamics between individuals. As far as i am concerned, if people ID as butch, they are butch, no matter what i may or may not pick up from them. Same with femme.
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03-11-2010, 10:39 AM | #57 | |
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03-11-2010, 11:27 AM | #58 | |
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Not one bit disconcerting to me!
I guess you could say I'm disconcerting to others in our community. I am strong & masculine in my womanly frame..I am totally butch I've had many descriptions pinned to my chest. I do enjoy the company of all. What they want to be is up to them. When people feel good about who they are one can tell & enjoy knowing them.
Maybe some are not ok with their place in life & so they are upset with me. I can't figure it out. I just stay on the fringe with my door open. hope I didn't muddy the waters more!! Quote:
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03-11-2010, 11:42 AM | #59 | |
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I don't think of butch women speaking up as being part of online butch identity politics, but I do agree that using "identified" as part of describing butch can play into to it. There is no "war." From now on I will make it clear that I am Butch who is female and woman, but not "identified" anything. I think we do still need to speak up about sexism when it occurs, but picking apart gender, yeah it's getting real old. Yes talking about how butches face and deal with the world as strong females and women in a patriarchal world sounds a lot more empowering. One small thing that does make me smile is when kids are curious about me. Sometimes they will ask me if I am a boy or girl. I say girl. Some other kids just play with me and don't think about it one way or another. I'm just happy when kids see butches as part of the normal spectrum of people in this world and their lives.
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03-11-2010, 12:29 PM | #60 | |
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