What attracts you to Ftms ......

[princessbelle]

Julie,

Maybe it's because we see things differently.

Say someone is romanticizing the 50s and say they are thinking of a femme or whatever, wearing an apron, being home all day, welcoming their FtM/butch ect home to a hot cooked meal with the kids up in the bedroom studying, and see this as heaven on earth and bliss.

But, to others it is seen for literally what it was...oppression, Domination without consent, POC being unaccepted and unacceptable, kids being locked away in their bedrooms for endless hours to do homework, just to keep them quiet and out of the way, ect.

Just a thought here, but maybe some peeps are seeing this in a figurative way, not realistic to the actual times and trials and derogatory existence that many of us know was the truth. And others are seeing this as a literal, real existence that so many have fought against and pledge never to go backward again.

Maybe it boils down to a "daydreaming" perfect world vs. reality.

Maybe that is where the bridge is. Not sure.

Just my thoughts.

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Julie,

Maybe it's because we see things differently.

Say someone is romanticizing the 50s and say they are thinking of a femme or whatever, wearing an apron, being home all day, welcoming their FtM/butch ect home to a hot cooked meal with the kids up in the bedroom studying, and see this as heaven on earth and bliss.

But, to others it is seen for literally what it was...oppression, Domination without consent, POC being unaccepted and unacceptable, kids being locked away in their bedrooms for endless hours to do homework, just to keep them quiet and out of the way, ect.

Just a thought here, but maybe some peeps are seeing this in a figurative way, not realistic to the actual times and trials and derogatory existence that many of us know was the truth. And others are seeing this as a literal, real existence that so many have fought against and pledge never to go backward again.

Maybe it boils down to a "daydreaming" perfect world vs. reality.

Maybe that is where the bridge is. Not sure.

Just my thoughts.

I agree. Anything done that is not your choice is stupid and quite frankly dangerous. Everyone should do as they feel they should do as long as it doesn't infringe on others. And why should we feel we have the right to care??? If it is a personal choice and consensual and nobody has to smack others around (figurativly) to feel ok about it...then have at it.

Like I tried to ask in my first post....how then, can we talk about it.

Obviously we are lacking understanding in the language needed to discuss this particular "kink". And i don't think it's a kink but I don't know what else to call it. Maybe preference??? Is that a better word? How do we discuss this without causing a big hoorah.

What words? Like specific words can I use to describe what works for Brute and I without bringing up disgusting parts of our history. Cause it's not a perfect world I strive for, it's a realistic world. But I need to know how to talk about it with giving offense to others.


j

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by femmsational

I agree. Anything done that is not your choice is stupid and quite frankly dangerous. Everyone should do as they feel they should do as long as it doesn't infringe on others. And why should we feel we have the right to care??? If it is a personal choice and consensual and nobody has to smack others around (figurativly) to feel ok about it...then have at it.

Like I tried to ask in my first post....how then, can we talk about it.

Obviously we are lacking understanding in the language needed to discuss this particular "kink". And i don't think it's a kink but I don't know what else to call it. Maybe preference??? Is that a better word? How do we discuss this without causing a big hoorah.

What words? Like specific words can I use to describe what works for Brute and I without bringing up disgusting parts of our history. Cause it's not a perfect world I strive for, it's a realistic world. But I need to know how to talk about it with giving offense to others.


j

I sure can't and wouldn't tell anyone how to post.

I just feel that bringing up the 50s as the wonderful, poetic, patriotic, perfect moral, best manners way of life, is so far from the truth it is hard not to discuss it and call it out for what it was.

I mean it's cool if that how someone wants to live, but it is important to really see it for what it was. Just pointing out that fantasy vs. reality is important to discuss sometimes maybe is my point.

That's how i see it anyway.

[QueenofSmirks]

Originally Posted by femmsational

...
Like I tried to ask in my first post....how then, can we talk about it.

Obviously we are lacking understanding in the language needed to discuss this particular "kink". And i don't think it's a kink but I don't know what else to call it. Maybe preference??? Is that a better word? How do we discuss this without causing a big hoorah.

What words? Like specific words can I use to describe what works for Brute and I without bringing up disgusting parts of our history. Cause it's not a perfect world I strive for, it's a realistic world. But I need to know how to talk about it with giving offense to others.
j

I am pretty sure I know what you mean, but in terms of "language" - and please don't slay me for this, I will think about it more later and probably come up with better terminology - I think what you're trying to say is you and your partner enjoy stereotypical binary gender roles, including chivalry, etc etc.

Am I on the right track?

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

I am pretty sure I know what you mean, but in terms of "language" - and please don't slay me for this, I will think about it more later and probably come up with better terminology - I think what you're trying to say is you and your partner enjoy stereotypical binary gender roles, including chivalry, etc etc.

Am I on the right track?

LOL!! I think you're on the same track I'm on, not sure it's the "right track"


I don't think that I would say Brute and i *enjoy* cause that's kinda like a preference. I would say that the core of who we are, UNFORTUNATLY, fit into societies version of stereotypical binary gender roles. (phew. mouth full that was)


And I think that's where this issue starts to go sideways. First people are lazy in language and thought. Second, there really is no correct language to use in this instance because it all revolves back to societal ideas. I just have to call bullshit on that.

All of us, especially me, need to be more careful when talking about what makes us tick as an individual. Words matter and sometimes if we would take two more seconds to think, we might pick a word that doesn't push other peoples buttons.

But on the flip side, if what works for me is something that society labels one thing, please don't dismiss that what works for me, may work for me outside of societies ideas or sterotypes. Just because what works for me is something that screams out OPPRESION, does not mean that it's not me. Or that I am glamorizing or wishisg for that oppresion. And when people say that being a certain way is wrong or does not acknowlege the hardships of the past, that is just as off base as someone glamourizing the 50's or pick an era.


There has got to be a way to not have this same argument over and over.


I'm not trying to be right or prove a point or any such nonsense. I'm trying to figure out how to talk about my relationship, without offending others. Cause whatever I may say, could and usually does illicet this type of response. It's hurtful and sad. It would be nice to feel free to just speak about my truth without being so worried I'm gonna say the wrong thing because of societies limitations.



j

[BullDog]

At this lesbian feminist household where history matters, I took out the garbage yesterday (doesn't need it today) and Belle is cooking meatloaf, mashed potatoes and green beans for dinner. We were both taught good manners by our parents and we don't need to glorify the 1950s or any past eras to treat each other and other people with respect. We are living in 2012 and happy to do so.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by BullDog

At this lesbian feminist household where history matters, I took out the garbage yesterday (doesn't need it today) and Belle is cooking meatloaf, mashed potatoes and green beans for dinner. We were both taught good manners by our parents and we don't need to glorify the 1950s or any past eras to treat each other and other people with respect. We are living in 2012 and happy to do so.

Very true. I draw the difference with us and with a lot of peeps here that our chosen ideas of what makes us happy and fullfilled is just that...it's chosen. It fits. It feels right and it works.

As opposed to being dictated by others or society or what Ward Cleaver expects. If it is a choice, that in-itself is a clear, very huge distinction from the 1950s.

Not saying some of the women didn't like that type of life or even like it now, just that there is a choice in 2012. But, in some ways it is even more realitive and true now than donning an apron and putting on make up before you come in the door. Because it is real. It is what i "choose" to do, not because it is what i "should" do.

Femmsational, you are so right about trying to convey an opinion without stepping on toes. I am honestly trying to do that as well as you, and others here. Hard to write into words sometimes.

Good discussion.

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Very true. I draw the difference with us and with a lot of peeps here that our chosen ideas of what makes us happy and fullfilled is just that...it's chosen. It fits. It feels right and it works.

As opposed to being dictated by others or society or what Ward Cleaver expects. If it is a choice, that in-itself is a clear, very huge distinction from the 1950s.

Not saying some of the women didn't like that type of life or even like it now, just that there is a choice in 2012. But, in some ways it is even more realitive and true now than donning an apron and putting on make up before you come in the door. Because it is real. It is what i "choose" to do, not because it is what i "should" do.

Femmsational, you are so right about trying to convey an opinion without stepping on toes. I am honestly trying to do that as well as you, and others here. Hard to write into words sometimes.

Good discussion.

LOL!! It is hard isn't it. At least we're trying. language can be so limiting. Drives me crazy.

And good luck to the person that tells me what I "should" do. That would not go over well. But just as what works for you and Bulldog works for you guys, what works for Brute and I is different. And that is ok. At least I think that's ok.

There should be room, especially and IRONICALLY, in a thread in the Trans Zone, for everyone to be welcomed and respected.


j

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by femmsational

LOL!! It is hard isn't it. At least we're trying. language can be so limiting. Drives me crazy.

And good luck to the person that tells me what I "should" do. That would not go over well. But just as what works for you and Bulldog works for you guys, what works for Brute and I is different. And that is ok. At least I think that's ok.

There should be room, especially and IRONICALLY, in a thread in the Trans Zone, for everyone to be welcomed and respected.


j

Yep!! And thank goodness it is 2012 and you DO have a choice. All of us do, well to a certain degree.

I felt sorta out of place posting in here since it is the Trans Zone but others were so i thought it was ok. It is great to post these types of discussion in any of our threads because we have all been, for the most part, oppressed at one time or other. No matter how we ID.

AND, thank goodness in THIS day and age...we can have these discussions and grow and move forward.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by femmsational

LOL!! It is hard isn't it. At least we're trying. language can be so limiting. Drives me crazy.

And good luck to the person that tells me what I "should" do. That would not go over well. But just as what works for you and Bulldog works for you guys, what works for Brute and I is different. And that is ok. At least I think that's ok.

There should be room, especially and IRONICALLY, in a thread in the Trans Zone, for everyone to be welcomed and respected.


j

PS.- also there will be Guys/FTMs/Masculine folk who are attracted to transfolk. Sorry the PS is above the OP but I'm on the road and realized like a dork I left out those in other various forms of relationships


Agreed, and though this is the Trans Zone there are guys here on BFP who attract Femmes/Women/Females who don't fall into binary roles.

I have a hard on for queer folk who are like this.