June Cleaver : Femme Friend or Femme Foe

The_Lady_Snow · 10-27-2012, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Wow that's some great points!!!

I think maybe that is why i feel the way i do about femme being used by anyone who claims it, because, like Nat, i lived a straight life with a bio man. Didn't change who i was on the inside. I knew i was gay, didn't know the term femme at the time. Did people have the right to tell me i wasn't gay? I may not have been living a gay life, but that didn't change who i was or how i felt on the inside.

I guess my point is, if we put femme into a box of what it can "only" be.... Isn't that limiting? Isn't that forming a certain type of hierarchy? And if we agree that femme does not mean you have to dress or ____ (insert descriptive), doesn't it also mean that ANYONE can claim that identity? If that is what you feel in your heart? Or is the line drawn at being straight? Or living a straight life?

I'm talking in seriousness here. Not someone making fun or poking at us. I mean if a straight women says "im a femme" how can i tell her, no you aren't. Ya know?

Still trying to sort this out...

I don't deny who she is, the likely hood of a heteronormative Femme and I kickin it won't happen, sure we'll hang out once in awhile but it's not the same it truly isn't and I love love my hetero friends but it's not the same... I am coming from a Gender perspective and no hetero woman is going to view her gender as I do

We'll have a very different kind of relationship than I do with Julie (of the New York Julies)

The_Lady_Snow · 10-27-2012, 02:52 PM

It's like the Femme Swap, my friend Kelly doesn't get it why it's so defining.

Erika does.....

julieisafemme · 10-27-2012, 02:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I don't deny who she is, the likely hood of a heteronormative Femme and I kickin it won't happen, I am coming from a Gender perspective and no hetero woman is going to view her gender as I do

We'll have a very different kind of relationship than I do with Julie (of the New York Julies)

Yes I agree so much with this. The relationships I have with femmes are very different than the relationships I have with straight women. That was quite a revelation to me!

princessbelle · 10-27-2012, 02:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by julieisafemme

Yes I agree so much with this. The relationships I have with femmes are very different than the relationships I have with straight women. That was quite a revelation to me!

Agree agree agree. There is something about having femme sisters and friends that is just heaven on earth.

Can't put my finger on it, but it is real and it is amazing and wow is it beautiful.

Seriously, we are so blessed to have each other. The femme swap comes to mind. So many different personalities but wow the love and the feeling of being there.

It's like no feeling i've ever felt or even came close to feeling.

Julie · 10-27-2012, 03:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Agree agree agree. There is something about having femme sisters and friends that is just heaven on earth.

Can't put my finger on it, but it is real and it is amazing and wow is it beautiful.

Seriously, we are so blessed to have each other. The femme swap comes to mind. So many different personalities but wow the love and the feeling of being there.

It's like no feeling i've ever felt or even came close to feeling.

And on a personal note to you Princess... You are my Femme Sister and I care deeply for you on a vast spectrum. I will NEVER view a straight woman the same way I view you... She will never be my Femme Sister - She might be might be my sister... But never my Femme Sister. The same goes for a few other beautiful Femmes here who have gotten inside of this hard exterior of mine. They will never share the same place at my table, as my straight female friends. We are Kin.

And I hope you don't feel beaten up (by me) for your views - they are yours and you are entitled to your opinion... I will not think less of you. I think there is a bit of learning for all of us and it is a continuum and I hope I continue to learn.

♥ Julie

princessbelle · 10-27-2012, 03:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Julie

And on a personal note to you Princess... You are my Femme Sister and I care deeply for you on a vast spectrum. I will NEVER view a straight woman the same way I view you... She will never be my Femme Sister - She might be might be my sister... But never my Femme Sister. The same goes for a few other beautiful Femmes here who have gotten inside of this hard exterior of mine. They will never share the same place at my table, as my straight female friends. We are Kin.

And I hope you don't feel beaten up (by me) for your views - they are yours and you are entitled to your opinion... I will not think less of you. I think there is a bit of learning for all of us and it is a continuum and I hope I continue to learn.

♥ Julie

<3 you too.

Maybe i'm not explaining it well enough....or maybe i am. LOL. But, here goes again...

The word femme to me is a dynamic that is near and dear to my heart. I found this word when i was new to the gay dynamic. I knew nothing about the gay world and was totally lost. I was more feminine than any of the gay people i knew and thought i was a freak. THEN i found BF. THEN i found the word femme. THEN i fit in. I hold that word as sacred. Still do.

My ONLY point with what i was saying is how can *we* say that in someone's heart they aren't a femme. In other words, when i was married to a bio guy i know NOW i was a femme. I was living a straight life. I was seen as straight, but in my HEART i was a femme, just didn't know it yet. If i had known that word, i would have claimed that identity. No one has the right to take that from me IMO. Therefore, how can i deny any woman that honor and tell them they are not.

But, as far as "us femmes" in the gay community, it is special and beautiful and there is no one in the straight world that could come close to how i feel with my femme sisters. I get that. I get that more than i can tell you. You know i get that. You know me. It is a special word and it is a special identity.

I'll just end my thoughts with this...

I would never view a straight woman with the same level of love i feel for other femmes either. No matter how they ID. Never meant to imply that i felt differently.

The_Lady_Snow · 10-27-2012, 04:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by princessbelle

<3 you too.

Maybe i'm not explaining it well enough....or maybe i am. LOL. But, here goes again...

The word femme to me is a dynamic that is near and dear to my heart. I found this word when i was new to the gay dynamic. I knew nothing about the gay world and was totally lost. I was more feminine than any of the gay people i knew and thought i was a freak. THEN i found BF. THEN i found the word femme. THEN i fit in. I hold that word as sacred. Still do.

My ONLY point with what i was saying is how can *we* say that in someone's heart they aren't a femme. In other words, when i was married to a bio guy i know NOW i was a femme. I was living a straight life. I was seen as straight, but in my HEART i was a femme, just didn't know it yet. If i had known that word, i would have claimed that identity. No one has the right to take that from me IMO. Therefore, how can i deny any woman that honor and tell them they are not.

But, as far as "us femmes" in the gay community, it is special and beautiful and there is no one in the straight world that could come close to how i feel with my femme sisters. I get that. I get that more than i can tell you. You know i get that. You know me. It is a special word and it is a special identity.

I'll just end my thoughts with this...

I would never view a straight woman with the same level of love i feel for other femmes either. No matter how they ID. Never meant to imply that i felt differently.

I went through this very same thought when I was married, I was a dyke, married to a bio man. I never thought that when I sat down and picked myself apart that a word could change me so much like Femme did. It made sense to me and I kept it a secret between me and those I was involved with at the time. I often questioned my gender because of the social markers that get imposed on Femme. I wasn't fitting them and I certainly couldn't fully live as Femme while in my marriage. Queer, Dyke, Poly, Gay fit well and I didn't feel I had to not claim them.

It was like my Femme was in the closet and well this closet burst. Then I met more women like me and then more and more. I knew a few Femme's but the online communities I belonged to started too bursting at the seams with Femme. I found myself wading and sorting through all things that people were assigning Femme and slipped comfortably into my Gender.

It's not easy when one as a Femme has to almost plan when it is ok to be you, it's oppressive and us being women it's a rough time self examining one's needs because we are brow beaten into x, y, z. For me if a woman, man, is having and experiencing queer feelings, queer thoughts, queer desires more likely than you will fit one of the many labels that we use.

Straight girls don't struggle with that. I asked and ask my friends and they are like um NO. Their choices in sex, love, politics, critical thinking is over ------------------------------------------------>

while mine is over there
<----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Opposite, maybe some similarities but not to many.

princessbelle · 10-27-2012, 04:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I went through this very same thought when I was married, I was a dyke, married to a bio man. I never thought that when I sat down and picked myself apart that a word could change me so much like Femme did. It made sense to me and I kept it a secret between me and those I was involved with at the time. I often questioned my gender because of the social markers that get imposed on Femme. I wasn't fitting them and I certainly couldn't fully live as Femme while in my marriage. Queer, Dyke, Poly, Gay fit well and I didn't feel I had to not claim them.

It was like my Femme was in the closet and well this closet burst. Then I met more women like me and then more and more. I knew a few Femme's but the online communities I belonged to started too bursting at the seams with Femme. I found myself wading and sorting through all things that people were assigning Femme and slipped comfortably into my Gender.

It's not easy when one as a Femme has to almost plan when it is ok to be you, it's oppressive and us being women it's a rough time self examining one's needs because we are brow beaten into x, y, z. For me if a woman, man, is having and experiencing queer feelings, queer thoughts, queer desires more likely than you will fit one of the many labels that we use.

Straight girls don't struggle with that. I asked and ask my friends and they are like um NO. Their choices in sex, love, politics, critical thinking is over ------------------------------------------------>

while mine is over there
<----------------------------------------------------------------------------

Opposite, maybe some similarities but not to many.

It was hard, wasn't it? I also remember on the dash site when i figured out what femme was and that i was one. But, then i read on some of the threads about femmes had to wear high heals all the time yada yada. I started second guessing the word for a long time and i thought, well heck, maybe i'm not.

But, i held on and found out femme can mean so many things to so many different people.

Well, it's a beautiful word and is shared by a lot beautiful women. And i'm so glad i figured out i don't have to be ____ to claim it.

girl_dee · 10-27-2012, 04:29 PM

yup it was a hard Femme journey for myself as well. i told my (ex) husband that i was gay after one year of marriage, we stayed in it for 10 because there were commitments and kids involved, and i felt it was my job, besides i was trying to *fix* my gay. We were never like a married couple, more like a team who had a mission. We had a great run, but i knew my time would come. i tried to be Carol Brady/June Cleaver/Mary Tyler Moore and i dream of Jeannie all at once.

add in there a strong desire for kink and you got a real confused woman.

So divorce came then i came out of the closet .. the splinters were flying.

i was GAY!!!!!!!

So then i was free to be *gay*. i went out and got a girlfriend. She was a femme i suppose, heck i don't know what she was, but she was not butch. First day she wanted me to pick up her dry cleaning. Then she borrowed my shoes, my dresses... then she asked me to stop at her house and take out her trash, if i didn't mind. i stopped by and broke up with her! i realized i don't like women all THAT much after all. We fought for bottom you might say. it was so awkward and i was so disappointed that i was not *gay* after all. i felt like a freak. i didn't like men, and i didn't like women and i wanted someone to take control of me.

THEN a gay co-worker took me to a gay bar. i walked in scared to death. i looked around ....

i said *let's go.... there's nothing but men in here*

She said *dee? them ain't men*

i swooned at all the butches lined up at the bar, their energy. i felt like that was my defining femme moment. i finally figured out what i was, mostly.

A short time later i went into service for a Butch Master. She had a femme partner and we bonded, and that was a special time for me. i knew i had a wonderful, awesome life ahead because i knew who i was for once.

i remember when my husband found out i had a girlfriend, he was happy for me. He wanted to meet my girlfriend, i said sure.. so he drove by (we lived near each other) and he stopped over.. introduced him to my very butch girlfriend, he looked at her and said *omg this is disgusting*

Ruined his fantasy much?

10-27-2012, 02:52 PM	#2
The_Lady_Snow MILLION $$$ PUSSY How Do You Identify?: Kinky, Raw, Perverted, Uber Queer Alpha Femme Preferred Pronoun?: Iconic Ms. Relationship Status: Keeper of 3, only one has the map to my freckles Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: La Reina del Sur Posts: 22,488 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 32,231 Thanked 80,077 Times in 15,670 Posts Rep Power: 21474874	thinking out loud It's like the Femme Swap, my friend Kelly doesn't get it why it's so defining. Erika does..... __________________ "If you’re going to play these dirty games of ours, then you might as well indulge completely. It’s all about turning back into an animal and that’s the beauty of it. Place your guilt on the sidewalk and take a blow torch to it (guilt is usually worthless anyway). Be perverted, be filthy, do things that mannered people shouldn’t do. If you’re going to be gross then go for it and don’t wimp out."---Master Aiden Last edited by The_Lady_Snow; 10-27-2012 at 03:05 PM.

10-27-2012, 04:29 PM	#9
girl_dee Practically Lives Here How Do You Identify?: Femme Preferred Pronoun?: dee Relationship Status: Hitched up Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Livin’ the Dream Posts: 24,079 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 30,560 Thanked 54,829 Times in 13,908 Posts Rep Power: 21474873	yup it was a hard Femme journey for myself as well. i told my (ex) husband that i was gay after one year of marriage, we stayed in it for 10 because there were commitments and kids involved, and i felt it was my job, besides i was trying to fix my gay. We were never like a married couple, more like a team who had a mission. We had a great run, but i knew my time would come. i tried to be Carol Brady/June Cleaver/Mary Tyler Moore and i dream of Jeannie all at once. add in there a strong desire for kink and you got a real confused woman. So divorce came then i came out of the closet .. the splinters were flying. i was GAY!!!!!!! So then i was free to be gay. i went out and got a girlfriend. She was a femme i suppose, heck i don't know what she was, but she was not butch. First day she wanted me to pick up her dry cleaning. Then she borrowed my shoes, my dresses... then she asked me to stop at her house and take out her trash, if i didn't mind. i stopped by and broke up with her! i realized i don't like women all THAT much after all. We fought for bottom you might say. it was so awkward and i was so disappointed that i was not gay after all. i felt like a freak. i didn't like men, and i didn't like women and i wanted someone to take control of me. THEN a gay co-worker took me to a gay bar. i walked in scared to death. i looked around .... i said let's go.... there's nothing but men in here She said dee? them ain't men i swooned at all the butches lined up at the bar, their energy. i felt like that was my defining femme moment. i finally figured out what i was, mostly. A short time later i went into service for a Butch Master. She had a femme partner and we bonded, and that was a special time for me. i knew i had a wonderful, awesome life ahead because i knew who i was for once. i remember when my husband found out i had a girlfriend, he was happy for me. He wanted to meet my girlfriend, i said sure.. so he drove by (we lived near each other) and he stopped over.. introduced him to my very butch girlfriend, he looked at her and said omg this is disgusting Ruined his fantasy much?