What attracts you to Ftms ......

[Soon]

Originally Posted by DMW

feeling that i would just like to have a space to breathe and be my asshole, masculine, wonderful self and not feel picked at...

Seriously?

I think most of us get enough of this common attitude (both the entitlement and the poor me bits) from men in the real world.

[Mike]

waits for the answer

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by Soon

Seriously?

I think most of us get enough of this common attitude (both the entitlement and the poor me bits) from men in the real world.

Originally Posted by Mike

waits for the answer

Please note that I am not trying to call you two out or say that I feel as though I'm being attacked. I am using these two posts as example of my thinking.


So cont......

After Snow, reasonably and justly asks for an explanation, we then get two more posts that could be read as snarky.


Why do I feel that they could be read as snarky??? Cause I remember back to when I was new to posting on these threads, YEARS ago. I was not as well versed on the language, the ideas, the issues surrounding certain parts of these debates as I am now. I didn't know how to express myself in ways that helped other people really hear what I was saying. (shit, still don't know how most of the time.) Because I didn't know HOW to say things in YOUR language, not the language I had known my all my life.

So, my point is, some people who come here really try to make a point and they just are inartful in the way they do it. Some are trying to learn and to those people it could be really scary. They want to interact with other people like them but there is a learning curve that we all have to go through and in that time, it's intimidating. I know I found the dash-site in 2002, didn't post one damn thing for two years cause I read and read and read and realized I had a lot of learning to do before I could express my feelings in an appropriate way. I just hadn't gained the correct language before I found that site. Some people aren't that way. They find us here and really jump in with both feet. But they are trying.


Some, are assholes. Jump at will in my opinion.


Why am I saying all this and quoting the above posts?? Because, *I* wish that when someone asks a person in a thread to please explain what they meant. And asks in a totally appropriate and reasonable way as Snow did.....Can we maybe wait and let the person respond before coming in with posts like the above?

The post that was made was called out by Snow, give the poster time to respond. PLEASE!!! Then if the poster proves that they are just not getting it, then ask some more.


Gahhh!! It's not up to me to tell anyone how to interact on these threads and I don't mean to come across that way. But this comes up all the time.

"I feel jumped on."

"I don't get that"

"But I'm getting attacked"

"Where"

"blah, blah, BLAH"

My feeling is, it's because people pile on. Not meaning to I'm sure. And not trying to be asshats about it. But, to people who are new/trying/not there yet/intimidated already, it can really feel like they are being bullied.

Can we just hear that message and maybe think about it???


Geez.....I hate pollyanaing out but I really understand both "sides" for lack of a better word, on this.

Sorry, derail, ignore as needed, jump on me as needed, just please think about it.


julie

[Mike]

Originally Posted by femmsational

Please note that I am not trying to call you two out or say that I feel as though I'm being attacked. I am using these two posts as example of my thinking.


So cont......

After Snow, reasonably and justly asks for an explanation, we then get two more posts that could be read as snarky.


Why do I feel that they could be read as snarky??? Cause I remember back to when I was new to posting on these threads, YEARS ago. I was not as well versed on the language, the ideas, the issues surrounding certain parts of these debates as I am now. I didn't know how to express myself in ways that helped other people really hear what I was saying. (shit, still don't know how most of the time.) Because I didn't know HOW to say things in YOUR language, not the language I had known my all my life.

So, my point is, some people who come here really try to make a point and they just are inartful in the way they do it. Some are trying to learn and to those people it could be really scary. They want to interact with other people like them but there is a learning curve that we all have to go through and in that time, it's intimidating. I know I found the dash-site in 2002, didn't post one damn thing for two years cause I read and read and read and realized I had a lot of learning to do before I could express my feelings in an appropriate way. I just hadn't gained the correct language before I found that site. Some people aren't that way. They find us here and really jump in with both feet. But they are trying.


Some, are assholes. Jump at will in my opinion.


Why am I saying all this and quoting the above posts?? Because, *I* wish that when someone asks a person in a thread to please explain what they meant. And asks in a totally appropriate and reasonable way as Snow did.....Can we maybe wait and let the person respond before coming in with posts like the above?

The post that was made was called out by Snow, give the poster time to respond. PLEASE!!! Then if the poster proves that they are just not getting it, then ask some more.


Gahhh!! It's not up to me to tell anyone how to interact on these threads and I don't mean to come across that way. But this comes up all the time.

"I feel jumped on."

"I don't get that"

"But I'm getting attacked"

"Where"

"blah, blah, BLAH"

My feeling is, it's because people pile on. Not meaning to I'm sure. And not trying to be asshats about it. But, to people who are new/trying/not there yet/intimidated already, it can really feel like they are being bullied.

Can we just hear that message and maybe think about it???


Geez.....I hate pollyanaing out but I really understand both "sides" for lack of a better word, on this.

Sorry, derail, ignore as needed, jump on me as needed, just please think about it.


julie

its ok if you are calling me out, but my respose to wait for the answer is becasue I read the thread and i could respond to some things but i saw where a question was asked or two and i wondered what the answer would be so i wait.That way i get to respond if i want after the answer. Its called trying to understand why and where someone is coming from instead of passing judgement.

thanks

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by Mike

its ok if you are calling me out, but my respose to wait for the answer is becasue I read the thread and i could respond to some things but i saw where a question was asked or two and i wondered what the answer would be so i wait.That way i get to respond if i want after the answer. Its called trying to understand why and where someone is coming from instead of passing judgement.

thanks

I get that. And truely I am NOT trying to call you out. I just used you as an example.

I'm sorry, I know for you it probably doesn't feel that way.

I understand how you feel and why you feel it. I just have been thinking about this circle argument that goes on all the time and felt the need to blab my feelings on it.

Please know I am NOT trying to police anything. I just want to put my thoughts out about this "issue" and see how others are thinking about it.


j

[The_Lady_Snow]

I don't understand Julie, why Mike's and Soon's posts are read as detremental to the conversation, how they are read as attacking yet the two posts that I quoted aren't?

How does that happen?

[Mike]

personally i think the post are just us saying we are reading and wondering also.

[BullDog]

Well Femmsational, I certainly have a completely different read on Soon and Mike's comments.

When I read DMW saying he wants a place to just be an asshole, my thoughts in my head were wow, really, males have the whole world to be an asshole in.

I thought Soon's comment was very straightforward with absolutely no snark.

And when I read Mike's comment, it felt good to see another male paying attention and wanting to hear more about this- something I appreciate.

That's how I read it.

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I don't understand Julie, why Mike's and Soon's posts are read as detremental to the conversation, how they are read as attacking yet the two posts that I quoted aren't?

How does that happen?

I don't know Snow.

I guess because when a person who is posting, is called out by someone, like you did as you should have, then there are more posts made saying the same thing.....it can FEEL to them as though they are being bullied.

You know how people talk about the "pack" mentality??? Which makes me want to pull my hair out!! It's that feeling that ok, one person asked me, then another, then another, then another, then another. And they are all asking the same thing. To that one poster....It can feel like they are being jumped on.

I am not saying that they SHOULD feel that way, or that I feel that way, I'm just saying it could.

Imagine in real life being in the same position. You are somewhere, you say something you think is totally inocuous and then all of a sudden a bunch of people turn at you, at the same time and start asking you about what you said. It would be scary to have a bunch of people pointing at you and saying.....explain, explain, EXPLAIN. Like the "mean girl" crap that gets thrown around on here too.


I don't think any post is detremental to the converstaion. Well unless it's clear as a fucking bell the person is just a dumbass. And I think it's obvious that there is a difference between, not there yet and just an asshole.


And note, I'm not saying that the two posts ARE attacking, just that for some folks it might feel attacking. I can't explain why certain people feel attacked but I can say that I do understand.

This place can be a scary place. There are so many really smart, eloquent folks on this site who express themselves wonderfully. For those that don't feel they are at that same level of......awareness?? It could get intimidating. Then when they post something they think is totally innocent and they get called on it....again, and again, and again, it's too much.

It's THEIR thing. It's not up to anyone to make anyone comfortable. But I'm just saying I get how they could feel jumped on. And then express that.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I just feel bad for everyone.


j

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by femmsational

I don't know Snow.

I guess because when a person who is posting, is called out by someone, like you did as you should have, then there are more posts made saying the same thing.....it can FEEL to them as though they are being bullied.

You know how people talk about the "pack" mentality??? Which makes me want to pull my hair out!! It's that feeling that ok, one person asked me, then another, then another, then another, then another. And they are all asking the same thing. To that one poster....It can feel like they are being jumped on.

I am not saying that they SHOULD feel that way, or that I feel that way, I'm just saying it could.

Imagine in real life being in the same position. You are somewhere, you say something you think is totally inocuous and then all of a sudden a bunch of people turn at you, at the same time and start asking you about what you said. It would be scary to have a bunch of people pointing at you and saying.....explain, explain, EXPLAIN. Like the "mean girl" crap that gets thrown around on here too.


I don't think any post is detremental to the converstaion. Well unless it's clear as a fucking bell the person is just a dumbass. And I think it's obvious that there is a difference between, not there yet and just an asshole.


And note, I'm not saying that the two posts ARE attacking, just that for some folks it might feel attacking. I can't explain why certain people feel attacked but I can say that I do understand.

This place can be a scary place. There are so many really smart, eloquent folks on this site who express themselves wonderfully. For those that don't feel they are at that same level of......awareness?? It could get intimidating. Then when they post something they think is totally innocent and they get called on it....again, and again, and again, it's too much.

It's THEIR thing. It's not up to anyone to make anyone comfortable. But I'm just saying I get how they could feel jumped on. And then express that.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I just feel bad for everyone.


j

Isn't it ironic that when a Femme steps and says hey. stop it. with your isms.


She's painted out as a "mean girl"


You never see this happen with butch/trans/masculine folk


Matter of fact one of the masculine folk came in here and accused the folks who are in here of attacking the submissive Femmes..


Yanno julie, I'll be honest.

That shit is old. Tiring. It's deflection.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've also had to deal with shit like this in real time situations, at dinner even. (ISMS)

And no I don't stay silent and 95% of the time, the person who spit out the ism, gets defensive, weird and turns it around on me.

People fear progression, I get it now at 43 that doesn't mean because of their fear, that I will be silenced.

[Mike]

Originally Posted by femmsational

I don't know Snow.

I guess because when a person who is posting, is called out by someone, like you did as you should have, then there are more posts made saying the same thing.....it can FEEL to them as though they are being bullied.

You know how people talk about the "pack" mentality??? Which makes me want to pull my hair out!! It's that feeling that ok, one person asked me, then another, then another, then another, then another. And they are all asking the same thing. To that one poster....It can feel like they are being jumped on.

I am not saying that they SHOULD feel that way, or that I feel that way, I'm just saying it could.

Imagine in real life being in the same position. You are somewhere, you say something you think is totally inocuous and then all of a sudden a bunch of people turn at you, at the same time and start asking you about what you said. It would be scary to have a bunch of people pointing at you and saying.....explain, explain, EXPLAIN. Like the "mean girl" crap that gets thrown around on here too.


I don't think any post is detremental to the converstaion. Well unless it's clear as a fucking bell the person is just a dumbass. And I think it's obvious that there is a difference between, not there yet and just an asshole.


And note, I'm not saying that the two posts ARE attacking, just that for some folks it might feel attacking. I can't explain why certain people feel attacked but I can say that I do understand.

This place can be a scary place. There are so many really smart, eloquent folks on this site who express themselves wonderfully. For those that don't feel they are at that same level of......awareness?? It could get intimidating. Then when they post something they think is totally innocent and they get called on it....again, and again, and again, it's too much.

It's THEIR thing. It's not up to anyone to make anyone comfortable. But I'm just saying I get how they could feel jumped on. And then express that.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I just feel bad for everyone.


j

I guess the other way to look at is:

There are a few folks who dont get where I am coming from, and asking me for more information or to clarify something I said.
Its not just one person who is having a hard time understanding what I said.

Trust me when i didnt post what i really wanted to post, when i said i was waiting for an answer, that would have been attacking, because for the life of me, I cant imagine why any would would want to come in here and be an asshole, there are plenly of other places for that to happen on the web. So i was going with I dont understand and in doing that, you didnt understand where I was coming from.

Its all in the form of perception!

I call it engaging brain before engaging fingers.