What attracts you to Ftms ......

[Mike]

waits for the answer

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by Soon

Seriously?

I think most of us get enough of this common attitude (both the entitlement and the poor me bits) from men in the real world.

Originally Posted by Mike

waits for the answer

Please note that I am not trying to call you two out or say that I feel as though I'm being attacked. I am using these two posts as example of my thinking.


So cont......

After Snow, reasonably and justly asks for an explanation, we then get two more posts that could be read as snarky.


Why do I feel that they could be read as snarky??? Cause I remember back to when I was new to posting on these threads, YEARS ago. I was not as well versed on the language, the ideas, the issues surrounding certain parts of these debates as I am now. I didn't know how to express myself in ways that helped other people really hear what I was saying. (shit, still don't know how most of the time.) Because I didn't know HOW to say things in YOUR language, not the language I had known my all my life.

So, my point is, some people who come here really try to make a point and they just are inartful in the way they do it. Some are trying to learn and to those people it could be really scary. They want to interact with other people like them but there is a learning curve that we all have to go through and in that time, it's intimidating. I know I found the dash-site in 2002, didn't post one damn thing for two years cause I read and read and read and realized I had a lot of learning to do before I could express my feelings in an appropriate way. I just hadn't gained the correct language before I found that site. Some people aren't that way. They find us here and really jump in with both feet. But they are trying.


Some, are assholes. Jump at will in my opinion.


Why am I saying all this and quoting the above posts?? Because, *I* wish that when someone asks a person in a thread to please explain what they meant. And asks in a totally appropriate and reasonable way as Snow did.....Can we maybe wait and let the person respond before coming in with posts like the above?

The post that was made was called out by Snow, give the poster time to respond. PLEASE!!! Then if the poster proves that they are just not getting it, then ask some more.


Gahhh!! It's not up to me to tell anyone how to interact on these threads and I don't mean to come across that way. But this comes up all the time.

"I feel jumped on."

"I don't get that"

"But I'm getting attacked"

"Where"

"blah, blah, BLAH"

My feeling is, it's because people pile on. Not meaning to I'm sure. And not trying to be asshats about it. But, to people who are new/trying/not there yet/intimidated already, it can really feel like they are being bullied.

Can we just hear that message and maybe think about it???


Geez.....I hate pollyanaing out but I really understand both "sides" for lack of a better word, on this.

Sorry, derail, ignore as needed, jump on me as needed, just please think about it.


julie

[Mike]

Originally Posted by femmsational

Please note that I am not trying to call you two out or say that I feel as though I'm being attacked. I am using these two posts as example of my thinking.


So cont......

After Snow, reasonably and justly asks for an explanation, we then get two more posts that could be read as snarky.


Why do I feel that they could be read as snarky??? Cause I remember back to when I was new to posting on these threads, YEARS ago. I was not as well versed on the language, the ideas, the issues surrounding certain parts of these debates as I am now. I didn't know how to express myself in ways that helped other people really hear what I was saying. (shit, still don't know how most of the time.) Because I didn't know HOW to say things in YOUR language, not the language I had known my all my life.

So, my point is, some people who come here really try to make a point and they just are inartful in the way they do it. Some are trying to learn and to those people it could be really scary. They want to interact with other people like them but there is a learning curve that we all have to go through and in that time, it's intimidating. I know I found the dash-site in 2002, didn't post one damn thing for two years cause I read and read and read and realized I had a lot of learning to do before I could express my feelings in an appropriate way. I just hadn't gained the correct language before I found that site. Some people aren't that way. They find us here and really jump in with both feet. But they are trying.


Some, are assholes. Jump at will in my opinion.


Why am I saying all this and quoting the above posts?? Because, *I* wish that when someone asks a person in a thread to please explain what they meant. And asks in a totally appropriate and reasonable way as Snow did.....Can we maybe wait and let the person respond before coming in with posts like the above?

The post that was made was called out by Snow, give the poster time to respond. PLEASE!!! Then if the poster proves that they are just not getting it, then ask some more.


Gahhh!! It's not up to me to tell anyone how to interact on these threads and I don't mean to come across that way. But this comes up all the time.

"I feel jumped on."

"I don't get that"

"But I'm getting attacked"

"Where"

"blah, blah, BLAH"

My feeling is, it's because people pile on. Not meaning to I'm sure. And not trying to be asshats about it. But, to people who are new/trying/not there yet/intimidated already, it can really feel like they are being bullied.

Can we just hear that message and maybe think about it???


Geez.....I hate pollyanaing out but I really understand both "sides" for lack of a better word, on this.

Sorry, derail, ignore as needed, jump on me as needed, just please think about it.


julie

its ok if you are calling me out, but my respose to wait for the answer is becasue I read the thread and i could respond to some things but i saw where a question was asked or two and i wondered what the answer would be so i wait.That way i get to respond if i want after the answer. Its called trying to understand why and where someone is coming from instead of passing judgement.

thanks

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by Mike

its ok if you are calling me out, but my respose to wait for the answer is becasue I read the thread and i could respond to some things but i saw where a question was asked or two and i wondered what the answer would be so i wait.That way i get to respond if i want after the answer. Its called trying to understand why and where someone is coming from instead of passing judgement.

thanks

I get that. And truely I am NOT trying to call you out. I just used you as an example.

I'm sorry, I know for you it probably doesn't feel that way.

I understand how you feel and why you feel it. I just have been thinking about this circle argument that goes on all the time and felt the need to blab my feelings on it.

Please know I am NOT trying to police anything. I just want to put my thoughts out about this "issue" and see how others are thinking about it.


j

[The_Lady_Snow]

I don't understand Julie, why Mike's and Soon's posts are read as detremental to the conversation, how they are read as attacking yet the two posts that I quoted aren't?

How does that happen?

[Mike]

personally i think the post are just us saying we are reading and wondering also.

[BullDog]

Well Femmsational, I certainly have a completely different read on Soon and Mike's comments.

When I read DMW saying he wants a place to just be an asshole, my thoughts in my head were wow, really, males have the whole world to be an asshole in.

I thought Soon's comment was very straightforward with absolutely no snark.

And when I read Mike's comment, it felt good to see another male paying attention and wanting to hear more about this- something I appreciate.

That's how I read it.

[ruffryder]

Thank you for the following Vintage and Uniques and everybody else posting in regards to what you find attractive in FTMs!

Originally Posted by VintageFemme

Their courage, strength of heart & spirit, the will to be true to who they are in the face of much bigotry, adversity and misunderstanding. And physically for me, just their sheer hottiness. Mhmmm.

Originally Posted by Uniqueswtfemm

The honesty they share, the emotions they have about themselves, the energy they project.

Ranch house is a plus as well

Brute it is a great thing that many FTMs are aware where they come from and the steps it takes to get to a comfortable place within oneself knowing and feeling all they do with regards to feminism and what it is like to be a female in this world. You say Julie has played a major role in your alignment and how you feel in regards to the journey, and your Mom called you "son." I have to say many femmes in my life and friends have helped me along this journey as well. They have pointed out things to me about myself that made me realize who I am and who I am to become. This helps immensely in gaining one's confidence and moving along the journey to become a FTM and align ones body perhaps and spirit to match how one may feel.

Your post definitely was not a derail.. maybe on the current discussion happening here but most definitely is what the thread is all about, FTMs and the attraction of them. Thanks for your sentiments.

My question for FTMs (in regards to attraction) is :

Have people in your life helped you along that journey we make as FTMs in realizing, aligning, transforming, etc? ..

and for others:

Have you been able to help FTMs with their journey in realizing, aligning, transforming, and how has it affected or changed them or yourself?

For me, it's comments like the above, people that understand where we come from and how we feel, acceptance, and this thread in general that help someone such as myself move about comfortably in this life being who I am.

Originally Posted by BrutalDyke

Okay, got Ursula parked for the night, finally.


DMV, Julie pretty much hit the nail on the head with the use of the word shame, for me.

There were specific incidents, growing up as a female but feeling/knowing something just was not right with me, that caused the shame. It's not something I'll talk about out in the open but it's not something I will put away forever either because it is a part of the journey I've taken to get here. I gotta take the good with the bad. Lol.

I can honestly say that Julie has played a very very major role in me finally being totally okay with aligning my outside with my inside. I don't think she realizes that though. A lot of it comes from the religious upbringing and family that I come from. Yet they all adore Julie. Hell my own granny forced us to have a shot gun wedding at her house. My mom, in the past year or two, has started calling me, "her son". Most of the above has happened because they see that someone like me, a FTM, can be loved and accepted by another. That I'm not just some freak of nature or worse yet, someone who enjoys "dancing with the Devil" just to be the black sheep of the family.

Oh lordy, that was a derail if there ever was one but felt the need to share that. I guess what it boils down to is this....I am so damn grateful for threads like this because it's nice to be reminded every now and then why someone like myself could and would be appreciated, and not just by their lover/wife/spouse/partner or family.


...

oyyyy not sure how June Cleaver and all her glory got in this thread, same as 50s, and kink. . I understand there are FTMs that enjoy 50s lifestyle, kink, etc.. but still, what attracks people to FTMs? June Cleaver probably is not a fan of FTMs.. Not all FTMs are into the 50s lifestyle or kink, but would this be something you (you general) need in an FTM to find them attractive? For me, that would just be a part of their lifestyle and not what defines them or maybe it does define them, hell I don't know. I guess that's another thread, maybe?

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I don't understand Julie, why Mike's and Soon's posts are read as detremental to the conversation, how they are read as attacking yet the two posts that I quoted aren't?

How does that happen?

I don't know Snow.

I guess because when a person who is posting, is called out by someone, like you did as you should have, then there are more posts made saying the same thing.....it can FEEL to them as though they are being bullied.

You know how people talk about the "pack" mentality??? Which makes me want to pull my hair out!! It's that feeling that ok, one person asked me, then another, then another, then another, then another. And they are all asking the same thing. To that one poster....It can feel like they are being jumped on.

I am not saying that they SHOULD feel that way, or that I feel that way, I'm just saying it could.

Imagine in real life being in the same position. You are somewhere, you say something you think is totally inocuous and then all of a sudden a bunch of people turn at you, at the same time and start asking you about what you said. It would be scary to have a bunch of people pointing at you and saying.....explain, explain, EXPLAIN. Like the "mean girl" crap that gets thrown around on here too.


I don't think any post is detremental to the converstaion. Well unless it's clear as a fucking bell the person is just a dumbass. And I think it's obvious that there is a difference between, not there yet and just an asshole.


And note, I'm not saying that the two posts ARE attacking, just that for some folks it might feel attacking. I can't explain why certain people feel attacked but I can say that I do understand.

This place can be a scary place. There are so many really smart, eloquent folks on this site who express themselves wonderfully. For those that don't feel they are at that same level of......awareness?? It could get intimidating. Then when they post something they think is totally innocent and they get called on it....again, and again, and again, it's too much.

It's THEIR thing. It's not up to anyone to make anyone comfortable. But I'm just saying I get how they could feel jumped on. And then express that.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I just feel bad for everyone.


j

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by femmsational

I don't know Snow.

I guess because when a person who is posting, is called out by someone, like you did as you should have, then there are more posts made saying the same thing.....it can FEEL to them as though they are being bullied.

You know how people talk about the "pack" mentality??? Which makes me want to pull my hair out!! It's that feeling that ok, one person asked me, then another, then another, then another, then another. And they are all asking the same thing. To that one poster....It can feel like they are being jumped on.

I am not saying that they SHOULD feel that way, or that I feel that way, I'm just saying it could.

Imagine in real life being in the same position. You are somewhere, you say something you think is totally inocuous and then all of a sudden a bunch of people turn at you, at the same time and start asking you about what you said. It would be scary to have a bunch of people pointing at you and saying.....explain, explain, EXPLAIN. Like the "mean girl" crap that gets thrown around on here too.


I don't think any post is detremental to the converstaion. Well unless it's clear as a fucking bell the person is just a dumbass. And I think it's obvious that there is a difference between, not there yet and just an asshole.


And note, I'm not saying that the two posts ARE attacking, just that for some folks it might feel attacking. I can't explain why certain people feel attacked but I can say that I do understand.

This place can be a scary place. There are so many really smart, eloquent folks on this site who express themselves wonderfully. For those that don't feel they are at that same level of......awareness?? It could get intimidating. Then when they post something they think is totally innocent and they get called on it....again, and again, and again, it's too much.

It's THEIR thing. It's not up to anyone to make anyone comfortable. But I'm just saying I get how they could feel jumped on. And then express that.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I just feel bad for everyone.


j

Isn't it ironic that when a Femme steps and says hey. stop it. with your isms.


She's painted out as a "mean girl"


You never see this happen with butch/trans/masculine folk


Matter of fact one of the masculine folk came in here and accused the folks who are in here of attacking the submissive Femmes..


Yanno julie, I'll be honest.

That shit is old. Tiring. It's deflection.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I've also had to deal with shit like this in real time situations, at dinner even. (ISMS)

And no I don't stay silent and 95% of the time, the person who spit out the ism, gets defensive, weird and turns it around on me.

People fear progression, I get it now at 43 that doesn't mean because of their fear, that I will be silenced.

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Isn't it ironic that when a Femme steps and says hey. stop it. with your isms.


She's painted out as a "mean girl"


You never see this happen with butch/trans/masculine folk


Matter of fact one of the masculine folk came in here and accused the folks who are in here of attacking the submissive Femmes..


Yanno julie, I'll be honest.

That shit is old. Tiring. It's deflection.

I hope you realize I am not saying I believe you, or anyone, at this moment is being a "mean girl" cause I've never thought that. I have seen the "mean girl" but not here and not on this site. I didn't use mean girl as a way to narrow it down to gender. It's a common way of describing a specific pattern. It could be a girl or a guy.

I think Gemme made a great point in her last post. There do seem to be two discussions going on at the same time. Confusing to say the least.

I'm not trying to say that I feel anyone is right or wrong, just that there are two ways to look at things and it makes it easier for ME to try to see things from both sides. Then I don't get my feelings hurt and take things personally.

I agree this shit is old. Which is why I said something in the first place.


j

[girl_dee]

i think for some people, possibly myself included, we don't feel that we are whitewashing history by adopting certain behaviors from that time period.

i get that women had no rights, i get that women were stripped of our dreams, hopes and the right to live in our own skin. Hell as an adult i was told i made less money than my male co-worker because he had a high house note to pay. We did the exact same job, only i did mine more efficiently.

By me choosing to embrace being a home maker doesn't by any stretch mean that i do not get and honor that time period and the struggles we still go through.

In fact it feels even more empowering in some ways because i am choose to live this way, i love what i do, i get to choose, and no matter what my choice it is honored.

[Martina]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Isn't it ironic that when a Femme steps and says hey. stop it. with your isms.


She's painted out as a "mean girl"


You never see this happen with butch/trans/masculine folk


Matter of fact one of the masculine folk came in here and accused the folks who are in here of attacking the submissive Femmes..


Yanno julie, I'll be honest.

That shit is old. Tiring. It's deflection.

Yes!!!! ------------

[Mike]

Originally Posted by femmsational

I don't know Snow.

I guess because when a person who is posting, is called out by someone, like you did as you should have, then there are more posts made saying the same thing.....it can FEEL to them as though they are being bullied.

You know how people talk about the "pack" mentality??? Which makes me want to pull my hair out!! It's that feeling that ok, one person asked me, then another, then another, then another, then another. And they are all asking the same thing. To that one poster....It can feel like they are being jumped on.

I am not saying that they SHOULD feel that way, or that I feel that way, I'm just saying it could.

Imagine in real life being in the same position. You are somewhere, you say something you think is totally inocuous and then all of a sudden a bunch of people turn at you, at the same time and start asking you about what you said. It would be scary to have a bunch of people pointing at you and saying.....explain, explain, EXPLAIN. Like the "mean girl" crap that gets thrown around on here too.


I don't think any post is detremental to the converstaion. Well unless it's clear as a fucking bell the person is just a dumbass. And I think it's obvious that there is a difference between, not there yet and just an asshole.


And note, I'm not saying that the two posts ARE attacking, just that for some folks it might feel attacking. I can't explain why certain people feel attacked but I can say that I do understand.

This place can be a scary place. There are so many really smart, eloquent folks on this site who express themselves wonderfully. For those that don't feel they are at that same level of......awareness?? It could get intimidating. Then when they post something they think is totally innocent and they get called on it....again, and again, and again, it's too much.

It's THEIR thing. It's not up to anyone to make anyone comfortable. But I'm just saying I get how they could feel jumped on. And then express that.


I don't have a dog in this fight. I just feel bad for everyone.


j

I guess the other way to look at is:

There are a few folks who dont get where I am coming from, and asking me for more information or to clarify something I said.
Its not just one person who is having a hard time understanding what I said.

Trust me when i didnt post what i really wanted to post, when i said i was waiting for an answer, that would have been attacking, because for the life of me, I cant imagine why any would would want to come in here and be an asshole, there are plenly of other places for that to happen on the web. So i was going with I dont understand and in doing that, you didnt understand where I was coming from.

Its all in the form of perception!

I call it engaging brain before engaging fingers.

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by Mike

I guess the other way to look at is:

There are a few folks who dont get where I am coming from, and asking me for more information or to clarify something I said.
Its not just one person who is having a hard time understanding what I said.

Trust me when i didnt post what i really wanted to post, when i said i was waiting for an answer, that would have been attacking, because for the life of me, I cant imagine why any would would want to come in here and be an asshole, there are plenly of other places for that to happen on the web. So i was going with I dont understand and in doing that, you didnt understand where I was coming from.

Its all in the form of perception!

I call it engaging brain before engaging fingers.

Mike, I'm gonna try this one more time.

If you felt like re-reading my posts, you would see I tried to explain that to me personally, I did not see your post as what you seem to think I am saying I did.

I tried to say it COULD be seeing as and then gave reasons why I felt it COULD be seen as that. Not once did I say I actually saw it as rude, snarky, attacking.....insert whatever. I only spoke of how it COULD be taken by people who felt insecure and indimiated already.

It is absolutely all about perception. Which is exactly what I was talking about.