June Cleaver : Femme Friend or Femme Foe

[The_Lady_Snow]

During the Cleaver years only white women could vote. I can see how maybe June Cleaver could of gained power and gone to school, educated herself, had the opportunity to join the feminist movement. I get where Nomad could think about how June could of.


It wasn't till 1964-65 that POC could vote in Southern states.



I can toy with the idea of her being a feminist, educated, working mother. Someone like me, my mom, my cousin, my friends.

They wouldn't of had the chance, or would of died trying.


It's profound when you look at it in this way for me. She, Mrs Cleaver would be in my life only in kink, and even then I would be in charge of what Ward would from his tie to his meals.


ETA

I thought more about this and then I was like FML

If Mrs Cleaver would of come out of the closet, had she been like US, here on BFP she would of lost her sons, her life, her comforts. Hell, let's be honest she wouldn't of been able to date outside her race without worrying about both of them being KILLED.


WOW....

[girl_dee]

Holy heck i am cross posting on the Planet.

i realized i probably should have posted this here!





i think for some people, possibly myself included, we don't feel that we are whitewashing history by adopting certain behaviors from that time period.

i get that women had no rights, i get that women were stripped of our dreams, hopes and the right to live in our own skin. Hell as an adult i was told i made less money than my male co-worker because he had a high house note to pay. We did the exact same job, only i did mine more efficiently.

By me choosing to embrace being a home maker doesn't by any stretch mean that i do not get and honor that time period and the struggles we still go through.

In fact it feels even more empowering in some ways because i am choose to live this way, i love what i do, i get to choose, and no matter what my choice it is honored.
__________________

ETA Maybe this is my kink?

[The_Lady_Snow]

I hear and get your choice.


Your choices differ from mine.


When I speak of racism when it comes to The Cleavers, I have to, it's a kick to the gut when someone wants to hold you up to something you will never be.

(not saying dee is)

So when I bring up race, culture I do because it's part of my everyday function as Snow the Latina.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I thought of getting some ink, and I was discussing it with my Pack and I shared what I was thinking.

Months passed by and on Friday Worm comes to me and says:

"I've been thinking about you Joker tattoo and then I realized you could NEVER (he used quotation marks when saying never) EVER be Harley Quinn."


I was like oh?

"Nope, I am pretty "SURE" you can't and let me tell you why"

I sat quietly and waited....

I've gone through this with my kids before so it happens.


He reminds me that no only am I "Mexican" I was not "Blonde" I did not have "Straight Hair" then he went on this description of my hair.

I was like.

I can be Harley Quinn if I fucking want Worm, because it's Halloween.

He walked away and I started having this long and deep discussion about that AHA moment with a few other people.


I can role play somethings, I can pretend to be something, but somethings. I will never be able to be.

He's right.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I thought of getting some ink, and I was discussing it with my Pack and I shared what I was thinking.

Months passed by and on Friday Worm comes to me and says:

"I've been thinking about you Joker tattoo and then I realized you could NEVER (he used quotation marks when saying never) EVER be Harley Quinn."


I was like oh?

"Nope, I am pretty "SURE" you can't and let me tell you why"

I sat quietly and waited....

I've gone through this with my kids before so it happens.


He reminds me that no only am I "Mexican" I was not "Blonde" I did not have "Straight Hair" then he went on this description of my hair.

I was like.

I can be Harley Quinn if I fucking want Worm, because it's Halloween.

He walked away and I started having this long and deep discussion about that AHA moment with a few other people.


I can role play somethings, I can pretend to be something, but somethings. I will never be able to be.

He's right.

But do you want to be?

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

But do you want to be?

Laughs, well yeah sometimes I want to be white..


I would love to know what it feels like to sit at dinner with your guy and his cousin and not have some dick head look at you like you have boogers on your chin and ask you:

"So where are you from?"


I'd love to just be able to fucking appropriate Cinco De Mayo with my girlfriends, eat $1.00 tacos, drink some margaritas, SCREAM LOUDLY HAPPY CINCO DE DRINKO!


Sometimes, I do think about it and I want to be.


Then I think, don't be such a cunt Snow stop shitting on your people cause you want easy.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Do you ever want to be a woman of color?

[girl_dee]

Yes and i hadn't read your post before i posted mine. i just did.

Thanks for the reminder because in my world/skin it's easy to forget.

i've been thinking lots about this since this thread started. Thanks for that!

[aishah]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

When I speak of racism when it comes to The Cleavers, I have to, it's a kick to the gut when someone wants to hold you up to something you will never be.

this, for me, is the biggest kicker. the fact that non-white women are held to this standard when it is something that we could not and never could have met - and it's really a double bind because the system is set up specifically to deny us ever having the possibility of being like june cleaver. during this time period native & black women were also being sterilized by the state, as were disabled women, and our children were forcibly taken from us and sent to boarding schools for forced assimilation or adopted out to white families.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

Holy heck i am cross posting on the Planet.

i realized i probably should have posted this here!





i think for some people, possibly myself included, we don't feel that we are whitewashing history by adopting certain behaviors from that time period.

i get that women had no rights, i get that women were stripped of our dreams, hopes and the right to live in our own skin. Hell as an adult i was told i made less money than my male co-worker because he had a high house note to pay. We did the exact same job, only i did mine more efficiently.

By me choosing to embrace being a home maker doesn't by any stretch mean that i do not get and honor that time period and the struggles we still go through.

In fact it feels even more empowering in some ways because i am choose to live this way, i love what i do, i get to choose, and no matter what my choice it is honored.
__________________

ETA Maybe this is my kink?

I understand choice. I don't understand any type of support for discrimination..... however,

I always viewed the adoption of such things more as a type of fetishism. Fetish doesn't have to be tangible, although can be. It's a set of behaviors, rituals and maybe "things" that unlock a desired state of being or passionate response. Ain't nothing wrong with this or role-play for that matter. It becomes empowering because YOU own it, it doesn't own you or dictate rules.

I think June Clever was a hardcore female supremacist who made her husband wear panties under his suit. She used her feminine magic to subliminally control her family. She also cuckolded her husband by having a beautiful black man at her disposal. This is why she was always happy and smiling.

[blush]

I wonder why we hold up a white male fantasy as any kind of definition of femme.