What attracts you to Ftms ......

[DMW]

Unfortunately, the late night editing of my random feelings and thoughts regarding how i feel personally...got cut up by me, without me
recognizing, until now, that what i had originally posted got hosed up....specifically, My point b) isn't even there. So, i don't even recall what i originally posted or what thought processes got left out or unfinished. So, the post wound up being even more confusing or misrepresentitive of what i was trying to convey. I do recognize that barfing up my feelings onto this website has the capacity to open up a can of worms and cause confusion and strife and bring up emotions. I must say...that i didn't post those feelings with a purpose to get a response from others or to be noticed by anyone nor to try and get attention or heard or what have you. But, this is a public forum. So, i should expect a reaction, i suppose. I do have to take responsibility for what i have posted, eventhough my late night...not well thought out blab didn't come across original because i cut it up and lost it. That doesn't necessarily mean that i would be understood the way i wanted to be. And i think i may have offended people. I don't like that. I don't have an insecurity issue with it either.
i am wanting to answer people's questions but at the same time deal with my own emotions and feelings and find the words as to why i am bothered and what is disturbing me. So, selfishly, i have to focus on what irks me before i try and clear up what was originally posted by me or answer the questions. I may never be able to find that original thought or feeling to my post.
I just want to apologize for blabbing and then not being able to clear it up sooner rather than later.
I think for me...what it comes down to is this...being perceived as a previleged white male ...in society has its advantages...yes. However, it has it's drawbacks, also. When people look at me...they assume...ah...he is a white male and this is how his life has been...And it just isn't so.
(i guess it is like the "invisibility" feeling that femmes have and have to put up with)

And so, when i come here to this website ...it is as though i expect more understanding and some kind of relief from this community. And that isn't necessarily fair...especially if many do not know me well here or don't have any kind of foundation of that awareness (of who i am) to draw upon. That is asking a lot. It really is.
In addition, if i don't explain where i am coming from...then how the hell would
anyone know that....hey...that asshole remark that he just made...(I prefer Donna Reed and or Alice Kramden)...I may like Donna Reed in a dress and all...but, i do not expect her to go and get my morning paper or my coffee because i demand that... not unless she wants to. I want her to go and get my morning paper and my coffee because...it is what she wants to do because it makes her happy to make me happy.

I do want to apologize for hurting anyone's feelings. I am sorry for that sincerely.
DMW

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by Darbonaire
They seem to understand and "get" the June Cleaver lifestyle. They respect it. They don't balk at many of the common courtesies. Doors get held open, chairs pulled back, Ma'am is said...

Yes indeed....it's how I believe it should be....thanks for noticing when we do it...<smile>....

& guess what Snow....I stand by my statement totally! Doors should get held open...<in MY world> Chairs pulled back..<in MY world>.....Common courtesy, manners also...<in MY world> Now, if that makes you feel oppressed or your feminity threatened..<which I doubt btw having read many of your posts...lol> oh well. YOUR world is YOUR world & MINE is MINE. I don't post to offend anyone, but, if I can't, or anyone can't post what they feel or think on these boards, then is this any better than the outside world where we all are subjected to censorship etc.? Now no, people should not be allowed to post derogatory things about others on here, but we are ALL entitled to our opinions, yes?

Out in the r/t world we seek people who have similar interests, similar tastes in life.....common ground as it were. We are all looking to find like minded souls to travel this journey with. Well, at at least I am.

Now then...back to our regularly scheduled programming.....

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

Originally Posted by Darbonaire
They seem to understand and "get" the June Cleaver lifestyle. They respect it. They don't balk at many of the common courtesies. Doors get held open, chairs pulled back, Ma'am is said...

Yes indeed....it's how I believe it should be....thanks for noticing when we do it...<smile>....

& guess what Snow....I stand by my statement totally! Doors should get held open...<in MY world> Chairs pulled back..<in MY world>.....Common courtesy, manners also...<in MY world> Now, if that makes you feel oppressed or your feminity threatened..<which I doubt btw having read many of your posts...lol> oh well. YOUR world is YOUR world & MINE is MINE. I don't post to offend anyone, but, if I can't, or anyone can't post what they feel or think on these boards, then is this any better than the outside world where we all are subjected to censorship etc.? Now no, people should not be allowed to post derogatory things about others on here, but we are ALL entitled to our opinions, yes?

Out in the r/t world we seek people who have similar interests, similar tastes in life.....common ground as it were. We are all looking to find like minded souls to travel this journey with. Well, at at least I am.

Now then...back to our regularly scheduled programming.....

Um, Darbonaire I was quoting what and how this whole thing originated. Not once did I say Darbonaire did this and that.

Please don't speak to me like I am some dimwit that doesn't get what is what I believe I have explained what the issue is what seems like millions of times.

Opinions can be stated without stepping on the desires of others. It's been said over and over and over again.

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Um, Darbonaire I was quoting what and how this whole thing originated. Not once did I say Darbonaire did this and that.

Please don't speak to me like I am some dimwit that doesn't get what is what I believe I have explained what the issue is what seems like millions of times.

Opinions can be stated without stepping on the desires of others. It's been said over and over and over again.

No, quoting me was quite enough....LOL..& believe me...."dimwit" isn't at all what I think you are...I actually find your posts enlightening, well phrased, & intelligent. Whatever the "issue" is in here, I personally wish to get back to the "issue" that is the title of the room / post.....my ego speaking there....LOL

[Darbonaire]

How is someone to know other's "opinions" will get fired up if they come into a room & then post "their opinion" ? Seriously, if I had the time to read back over 2 yrs worth of posts "maybe" I could tell where a sore spot or subject is....but really......there are folks out here...FTM & Femme who feel as you do, & who feel as I & others do.....I don't believe anyone was out to start some dicussion about the 50's....but hey....it's all ok by me.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

No, quoting me was quite enough....LOL..& believe me...."dimwit" isn't at all what I think you are...I actually find your posts enlightening, well phrased, & intelligent. Whatever the "issue" is in here, I personally wish to get back to the "issue" that is the title of the room / post.....my ego speaking there....LOL

are you telling me I should move along? Your postings are very silencing.

You post feels very head patting..

Care to clarify?

Oh and your ego, that shouldn't take presidence over my posts or anyone elses post who don't agree with your way of thinking.

[BullDog]

You know some of us are just trying to make an effort to clarify and understand each other better.

Opening and doors and such- "50s style" FTMS aren't the only ones with manners.

I don't quite get this some of guys just want to be guys stuff since there are plenty of FTMs and trans guys here that don't act like that way at all.

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by BullDog

You know some of us are just trying to make an effort to clarify and understand each other better.

Opening and doors and such- "50s style" FTMS aren't the only ones with manners.

I don't quite get this some of guys just want to be guys stuff since there are plenty of FTMs and trans guys here that don't act like that way at all.

I believe I made it clear these were MY ideals...not even trying to say they're right for you or anybody else..My life...MY ideals....

Where did you see me say that 50's FTM's are the "only ones with manners"?...Ok....out of here...wheh y'all decide to get back on topic I'll be glad to join in...till then....enjoy yourselves..>!

Oh & BTW...I'm not in to so called "guy stuff"...LOL...ask my ex ...<laughing So much at this cause you have no idea who I am or how I am>.....

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

are you telling me I should move along? Your postings are very silencing.

You post feels very head patting..

Care to clarify?

Oh and your ego, that shouldn't take presidence over my posts or anyone elses post who don't agree with your way of thinking.

Do you carry that chip on your shoulder ALL the time...My God...so I guess compliments...even sincere seem to be "dismissing" to you?...LOL...wow, <making a note to myelf on that one> & since I believe I saw a post by the MOD back aways about getting BACK to the original theme & starting a seperate room for this discussion...well, pardon me..I thought we would be doing that....wrong again I guess...Y'all enjoy the discussing..I'll come back when it's back on point.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Darbonaire

Do you carry that chip on your shoulder ALL the time...My God...so I guess compliments...even sincere seem to be "dismissing" to you?...LOL...wow, <making a note to myelf on that one> & since I believe I saw a post by the MOD back aways about getting BACK to the original theme & starting a seperate room for this discussion...well, pardon me..I thought we would be doing that....wrong again I guess...Y'all enjoy the discussing..I'll come back when it's back on point.

Um I thought you were a gentleman like the kind in the 50's? Your wording here doesn't read at all like you have manners....


Enjoy your day.

[Tony]

I have read through more of this thread than I found comfortable. IMO there is a lot of passive aggressive remarks, A LOT of judging of people's choice of lifestyle/kink/behaviors & all around misunderstandings on an epic level. IMO this is a perfect example of how some topics are just too complicated to carry out in a purely written, moderated forum.
ALL OF THIS MY OPINION & VIEW ONLY.

I for one would like to get back to the original intent of this thread;

What attracts you to FTMs?

[Hominid]

Please don't speak to me like I am some dimwit that doesn't get what is what I believe I have explained what the issue is what seems like millions of times.

This assumption that Darbonaire was coming from a place of condescension is exactly the problem in this thread, and not just yours. Yes, you *feeling* that way matters a great deal. But it doesn't mean it's true. However, one cannot take this to task without also recognizing that the very complaint of some of the people who feel you have been harsh with them feel EXACTLY as you describe. They cannot find the single quote you ask for to prove that you have said something offensive. Darbonaire was not harsh - was simply explaining himself and trying valiantly to insert enough qualifiers to piss anyone off.

If you found this post offensive or irritating or condescending, you should understand very well why other's have felt the same about some of your posts.

I think the issue is multifaceted. And more than just Snow's. Even yours is convoluted and complex at this point.

I'm out, despite being on the periphery for most of it. I began by saying this is why I don't get involved. I've now reminded myself. This is the "Trans Zone" -
space IS needed for guys to be able to communicate honestly, even if they aren't feminists, even if they are struggling and getting things wrong while negotiating their way through incredibly physically, socially, and emotionally toxic waters. Femmes have their own issues but they will NEVER understand the steps along the way. Most are very compassionate and patient.

Basically, guys need their own space to be "assholes" (and I again re-assert that we are ALL assholes) and not be spoken to in the way that even Snow found condescending. So -in the next few days I or another member with whom I am talking will be setting up some kind of a space for this purpose. We need support, we are all not where we will be. We may be assholes, but we deserve the benefit of the doubt - especially in the "Trans Zone"

Hominid - human -humanist out. Feel free to pick out a phrase or a perceived tone or word and call me on the carpet now.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Hominid, have you read the TOS?


Just because you (general) are guys/FTM's doesn't mean you get to come in here and be assholes. I have provided part of the TOS:

This is a female-owned website based on Feminist principles. Please consider that when posting.
Any sexist, racist, anti-woman, hate-speech, sizist or ageist postings are unwelcome here.


I am a Leather Woman, I have thoughts and ideas too, but what I don't get to do is come in here and take a shit on those who aren't. It's ridiculous to think that just because you are in a Zone that you can act like you wanna.


Also, how Darbonaire is speaking to me, is gross. I get enough shit from cis gender males out in real time, last thing I want is to be treated this way in my safe space. Maybe if I was more submissive you'd be nicer and see things differently.

[Darbonaire]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Hominid, have you read the TOS?


Just because you (general) are guys/FTM's doesn't mean you get to come in here and be assholes. I have provided part of the TOS:

This is a female-owned website based on Feminist principles. Please consider that when posting.
Any sexist, racist, anti-woman, hate-speech, sizist or ageist postings are unwelcome here.


I am a Leather Woman, I have thoughts and ideas too, but what I don't get to do is come in here and take a shit on those who aren't. It's ridiculous to think that just because you are in a Zone that you can act like you wanna.


Also, how Darbonaire is speaking to me, is gross. I get enough shit from cis gender males out in real time, last thing I want is to be treated this way in my safe space. Maybe if I was more submissive you'd be nicer and see things differently.

But you can "shit" on other's opinions ??? Woman space or not.....there was nothing anti-woman about any of my comments....."How Darbonaire is speaking to you," is polite & guardedly so...if that's 'gross" to you..that's on you & your interpertation not my delivery or intent.

[DMW]

How the hell do we start a new thread? I have been wanting to do that and don't know how? I mentioned it before and haven't found out or had time to forage for it.

So i ask...how can i start a new thread?

[BrutalDaddy]

Yo, guys.

Medusa spoke. Can we please just take a deep breath and chill for bit?

I kinda like this thread for reasons I mentioned in one of my past posts so I'd like it not to get shut down if possible?


Pretty Please,
Brute.

[Medusa]

Hominid -

I deleted your message to give you the benefit of the doubt that you didn't see my moderation since it looks like you might have been typing as I was posting.

That will be the only pass I give in this thread to anyone.

All -Let the line of arguing drop or get a time-out.

[femmsational]

Originally Posted by BrutalDyke

Yo, guys.

Medusa spoke. Can we please just take a deep breath and chill for bit?

I kinda like this thread for reasons I mentioned in one of my past posts so I'd like it not to get shut down if possible?


Pretty Please,
Brute.

*snort* you just like your......um.....ego stroked!!!


ruffryder, you asked some great questions in your...last....i think....post. It's somewhere in here buried. I sure would love to see people's answers to those questions.


ETA: Nope, i totally lied. Not your last post. But it was one of your last posts. I can't find it dammit!!!!

[ruffryder]

We are in the thread FTM and what attracks people to FTMs, yes?

" the rest had been snipped out based on Medusa's posting after I posted, etc.. out of respect "

[Tony]

Originally Posted by DMW

Unfortunately, the late night editing of my random feelings and thoughts regarding how i feel personally...got cut up by me, without me
recognizing, until now, that what i had originally posted got hosed up....specifically, My point b) isn't even there. So, i don't even recall what i originally posted or what thought processes got left out or unfinished. So, the post wound up being even more confusing or misrepresentitive of what i was trying to convey. I do recognize that barfing up my feelings onto this website has the capacity to open up a can of worms and cause confusion and strife and bring up emotions. I must say...that i didn't post those feelings with a purpose to get a response from others or to be noticed by anyone nor to try and get attention or heard or what have you. But, this is a public forum. So, i should expect a reaction, i suppose. I do have to take responsibility for what i have posted, eventhough my late night...not well thought out blab didn't come across original because i cut it up and lost it. That doesn't necessarily mean that i would be understood the way i wanted to be. And i think i may have offended people. I don't like that. I don't have an insecurity issue with it either.
i am wanting to answer people's questions but at the same time deal with my own emotions and feelings and find the words as to why i am bothered and what is disturbing me. So, selfishly, i have to focus on what irks me before i try and clear up what was originally posted by me or answer the questions. I may never be able to find that original thought or feeling to my post.
I just want to apologize for blabbing and then not being able to clear it up sooner rather than later.
I think for me...what it comes down to is this...being perceived as a previleged white male ...in society has its advantages...yes. However, it has it's drawbacks, also. When people look at me...they assume...ah...he is a white male and this is how his life has been...And it just isn't so.
(i guess it is like the "invisibility" feeling that femmes have and have to put up with)

And so, when i come here to this website ...it is as though i expect more understanding and some kind of relief from this community. And that isn't necessarily fair...especially if many do not know me well here or don't have any kind of foundation of that awareness (of who i am) to draw upon. That is asking a lot. It really is.
In addition, if i don't explain where i am coming from...then how the hell would
anyone know that....hey...that asshole remark that he just made...(I prefer Donna Reed and or Alice Kramden)...I may like Donna Reed in a dress and all...but, i do not expect her to go and get my morning paper or my coffee because i demand that... not unless she wants to. I want her to go and get my morning paper and my coffee because...it is what she wants to do because it makes her happy to make me happy.

I do want to apologize for hurting anyone's feelings. I am sorry for that sincerely.
DMW

I came in to see if the thread got back on point. I see it hasn't but I will say this is how I feel as well. Also why I've stayed away from this whole discussion (well, until now lol).