June Cleaver : Femme Friend or Femme Foe

[aishah]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Who all here identifies with Femme as their gender?

me.

i agree with martina (i think) - the problem isn't the power dynamics. the problem is when gender becomes conflated with the power dynamics. especially when the genders and dynamics reflect wider systems of privilege/oppression.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Femme, though I did not come to adopt this until I was say like 29, I had a real hard time with it at first because deep down I knew I was. I still love my marker *Dyke* I am very proud of that identifier.


Femme felt very comfortable and it has a wondeful skin to grow into in my later age. If I could change my marker on my license it would be Womyn.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by aishah

me.

i agree with martina (i think) - the problem isn't the power dynamics. the problem is when gender becomes conflated with the power dynamics. especially when the genders and dynamics reflect wider systems of privilege/oppression.

I often forget about how others define gender and gender roles once I step out of my hoola hoop (ArweNism).

So the dynamics for me still stay the same.


I'm the boss.

I do love to do laundry, I have only one man cub left and it's nicer to only have him. I don't miss the older cubs because well they are grown. So when tantalizing spoke of Ms Cleaver in the mother hood role I was like, HEY I GET THAT!

It was interesting cause I got a lil giddy, connecting with her in that way. I loved loved loved being a Momma. Though in my house it was a Latino run house so the dynamics between the kids and I though very maternal and detail oriented (like Ms Cleaver) it was like I knew or had an example of when it came to Momma's.

So that got me to thinking how now as I am older, house stuff I no likey so much.

I will assist the boy, but it's different it's relaxing it's not so time consuming and I get to be the bad Momma and make Kraft Mac and cheese and the boy makes home made (fill in the blank).


I don't feel less than now, not like I did in my mid 20's. I believe it's the work I do and continue to do on me. OMG do I need a lot with all my RAWR RAWR RAWR and passion for things.

I can say when I am spoken to like I am stoopid or I am head patted it makes me boil, it's almost like wow where am I and it makes me laugh.


Thanks tantalizing for reminding me about the Momma part, that really got me to thinking a lot about gender *performance* and how only girls/women do dishes and boys/men work on cars.

I am glad I know about both.

[Julie]

I keep thinking about the question Snow posed: Is Femme your Gender?

I came out at 17 as Gay. I realized at 18 I was a Lesbian -- This was the 70's. My relationships were definitely gender misogynistic Butch/Femme relationships and I was clearly in Butch led relationships. I grew up!!!

I went through a feminist phase and retaliated against anything patriarchal and discovered once again, my Femme. I have held onto her and not let her go. Though, I did go through a Femme phase, where I didn't want to be classified as Femme, as the butches I knew (back then) thought the best Femme's were bimbo's. I couldn't play Bimbo Femme, even when I tried. However, I remained Femme.

I suppose Femme is my gender. I don't really connect with Lesbian, though I am and I (like Snow) hold onto my Dyke -- Being a Dyke is important to me. I am a Femme Dyke. And I am a Lesbian, in some odd sort of Sapphic historic way.

When I refer to myself, I am always Femme and sometimes Dyke. And definitely repeating myself... But I am processing this... It's been a long time for me since I came out. I haven't really ever had to analyze it, as I just did.

Signed Julie Femme Dyke who knows her Sapphic history.

[princessbelle]

Originally Posted by Julie

I keep thinking about the question Snow posed: Is Femme your Gender?

I came out at 17 as Gay. I realized at 18 I was a Lesbian -- This was the 70's. My relationships were definitely gender misogynistic Butch/Femme relationships and I was clearly in Butch led relationships. I grew up!!!

I went through a feminist phase and retaliated against anything patriarchal and discovered once again, my Femme. I have held onto her and not let her go. Though, I did go through a Femme phase, where I didn't want to be classified as Femme, as the butches I knew (back then) thought the best Femme's were bimbo's. I couldn't play Bimbo Femme, even when I tried. However, I remained Femme.

I suppose Femme is my gender. I don't really connect with Lesbian, though I am and I (like Snow) hold onto my Dyke -- Being a Dyke is important to me. I am a Femme Dyke. And I am a Lesbian, in some odd sort of Sapphic historic way.

When I refer to myself, I am always Femme and sometimes Dyke. And definitely repeating myself... But I am processing this... It's been a long time for me since I came out. I haven't really ever had to analyze it, as I just did.

Signed Julie Femme Dyke who knows her Sapphic history.

Interesting.

I guess my gender is more than one as well...

I am a woman-lesbian-femme. I hate putting femme last and don't really mean it that way. It's sorta all of those at the same time. Without one of those, it wouldn't be me.

I love the word Dyke. I've never claimed it. But, i think it's a cool word.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I tried Lesbian on, I wanted to be one soooooooooooo bad but the women's group I belonged to found out I was into Leather. I was asked to leave because there was no way possible I could claim Feminist nor Lesbian because of the person I was under. He was cisgender male (gay). I was really hurt I don't think now that I look back at it that it was the main issue.

I think the Leather thing was a good way to get rid of the Leather Dyke of Color who wouldn't let it go that the Women of Color were not being allowed to represent as they could and should be.

That's a whole other topic though.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Interesting.

I guess my gender is more than one as well...

I am a woman-lesbian-femme. I hate putting femme last and don't really mean it that way. It's sorta all of those at the same time. Without one of those, it wouldn't be me.

I love the word Dyke. I've never claimed it. But, i think it's a cool word.

i claim Dyke! i love that word! i think i love it because at one time it meant something derogatory..

i think i am femme first

Femme Dyke has always been my favorite.

[spritzerJ]

Originally Posted by princessbelle

Interesting.

I guess my gender is more than one as well...

I am a woman-lesbian-femme. I hate putting femme last and don't really mean it that way. It's sorta all of those at the same time. Without one of those, it wouldn't be me.

I love the word Dyke. I've never claimed it. But, i think it's a cool word.

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

i claim Dyke! i love that word! i think i love it because at one time it meant something derogatory..

i think i am femme first

Femme Dyke has always been my favorite.

I enjoy the word dyke. It says power to me. power in me, in my woman loving way.

I'd say dyke femme.

[girl_dee]

When i was young the word Dyke was used (in my memory) by men who were referring to Butch women. Those butch women to me were strong, fearless and intrepid. Like my Syr..... i wanted to be like them, (the fearless part not the butch part).

So i hope i carry some of the traits that i admired. i feel proud to be a Dyke!

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Cajun_dee

i claim Dyke! i love that word! i think i love it because at one time it meant something derogatory..

i think i am femme first

Femme Dyke has always been my favorite.

sometimes femme feels icky to me. But for all intent and purposes, within this bf culture I am.

When someone calls me a lesbian it makes the hairs on my neck stand up. I prefer Queer. I'm not sure why.

I claim Goddess.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Sachita

sometimes femme feels icky to me. But for all intent and purposes, within this bf culture I am.

When someone calls me a lesbian it makes the hairs on my neck stand up. I prefer Queer. I'm not sure why.

I claim Goddess.

I too use Queer, it goes with my politics, beliefs, life, so on. I like that I can be long to the alphabet soup (LGBTQI).


I am hoping novela comes back to discuss gender. culture.id's and how they differ.

[Sachita]

oh I can totally get into the vintage glam thing! I was never much for leather per se. I mean I love boots, gloves, maybe a corset. But give me a velvet gown, pearls, stilettos and opera gloves any day.

for a hot scene I might be more inclined to wear something silky, revealing and easy access.

[Novelafemme]

For tonights class I am presenting on Cherrie Moraga's Queer Aztlan.

She writes the following about human relations and desire:

"When we are moved sexually toward someone, there is a profound opportunity to observe the microcosm of all human relations, to understand power dynamics both obvious and subtle, and to meditate on the core creative impulse of all desire. Desire is never politically correct. In sex, gender roles, race relations, and our collective histories of oppression and human connection are enacted."

Another portion that I love...especially the final sentence:

"As a lesbian, I don't pretend to understand the intricacies or intimacies of Chicano gay desire, but we do share the fact that our "homosexuality"-our feelings about sex, sexual power and domination, femininity and masculinity, family, loyalty, and morality-has been shaped by heterosexist culture and society. And such, we have plenty to tell heterosexuals about themselves."

Fabulous thread! More later. I'm off to class now.

[Novelafemme]

Oh, as for my gender...I'm with the Judith Butlers out there in that I view my own gender presentation as a performance I act out day to day. And since I'm not done performing I suppose my gender isn't an absolute. But I'll take Femme for $500, Alex.