"Stud" versus "Butch"

Corkey · 11-10-2012, 09:30 PM

Not interested. Thanks but I've had my say. I will not be pulled back in.

aishah · 11-10-2012, 09:45 PM

sorry, i was away for the last two days w/no internet or i would have jumped in...i'm super grateful for folks' posts, especially snow, corkey, and chino. snow already said all there is to be said on the subject of education. apparently it needs repeating, though.

i just wanted to address, re: "being a resource" - i like being a resource for people. i love teaching (and for that matter learning). i love being able to give people information and links. i also take on that role professionally a lot when doing accessibility work - coordinating people and resources.

but too often women, esp poc, and indigenous folks are expected to "be resources" - well, you know what happens to resources? resources get USED UP and commodified and misused and appropriated and stolen and wasted. particularly used up.

i'm a human being, not a resource.

in my opinion at least as an indigenous woman who's been stuck in the resource position (and sometimes chosen it, too), expecting people - especially marginalized folks - to be a resource is dehumanizing. (in addition to the learning issues.) because not only do we have to be a resource for the new white lesbian girls but we also have to be experts on how to assimilate to white culture without completely being destroyed (and the experts on everything white culture in general), plus, you know, have lives and stuff too.

Reader · 11-10-2012, 10:34 PM

I tried to read this whole thread, but I just cannot and do not want to wade through it any further than I did.

This thread is a perfect example of the cannibalization that goes on in our community.

It's like the operation was a success, but the patient died.

What the hell happened to "Sisterhood is Powerful"?

Was the revolution a success, yet the sisterhood died?

Bleh.

aishah · 11-10-2012, 10:43 PM

the "sisterhood" hasn't often been a place of power and safety and community for indigenous women and women of color. sometimes it's come at our expense. i for one thought the fact that snow got called a bully again for adding to the conversation by sharing what it's like for her to deal with racism on a daily basis again was pretty cannibalizing.

QueenofSmirks · 11-11-2012, 12:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aishah

... expecting people - especially marginalized folks - to be a resource is dehumanizing. ...

I don't *expect* anyone to be a resource for me, but it sure is nice when they *agree* to be one.

aishah · 11-11-2012, 01:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QueenofSmirks

I don't *expect* anyone to be a resource for me, but it sure is nice when they *agree* to be one.

perhaps the word "expect" was the wrong word to use.

to me, the resource dynamic is extremely problematic.

Glenn · 11-11-2012, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aishah

perhaps the word "expect" was the wrong word to use.

to me, the resource dynamic is extremely problematic.

Ah! No It was the perfect word because that is where the beginning of exploitation always occurs. The stud has always been a freak of nature, beyond time, the traditions of men, and culture.

Ginger · 11-11-2012, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glenn

The stud has always been a freak of nature, beyond time, the traditions of men, and culture.

Hi Glenn. I can sort of imagine what you might mean by "freak of nature." On the other hand, I am totally at a loss as to what "beyond time" is about. And as for "the traditions of men, and culture"—again, not sure I know what traditions, what men, and what culture you're referring to.

I'm interested in what you're saying. If you feel like it, could you possibly elaborate?

Thanks.

Glenn · 11-11-2012, 08:48 AM

There have been many "studs" throughout history that are both female and male who have "planted their seeds" in others spiritually, intellectually, politically, artistically, physically, etc. For example, Jesus was a "stud" imo, who defied the pharisees, and has sired many spiritual giants. But, many do not have the capablities of the orginal "stud", who try to emulate them like many do.,which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It was later that the oringinal teaching was exploited. But then their idealogies or "seeds" continue, until another one is "born" , to give birth to, hopefully, a better world of people.

11-10-2012, 09:30 PM	#1
Corkey Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Human Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: Very Married Join Date: Dec 2009 Location: Where I want to be Posts: 8,155 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 47,491 Thanked 29,268 Times in 6,637 Posts Rep Power: 21474859	Not interested. Thanks but I've had my say. I will not be pulled back in. __________________ "Many proposals have been made to us to adopt your laws, your religion, your manners and your customs. We would be better pleased with beholding the good effects of these doctrines in your own practices, than with hearing you talk about them". ~Old Tassel, Chief of the Tsalagi (Cherokee)

11-10-2012, 09:45 PM	#2
aishah Member How Do You Identify?: queer stone femme shark baby girl Preferred Pronoun?: she, her, little one Relationship Status: dating myself. Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: dallas, tx Posts: 1,495 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,823 Thanked 6,440 Times in 1,288 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	sorry, i was away for the last two days w/no internet or i would have jumped in...i'm super grateful for folks' posts, especially snow, corkey, and chino. snow already said all there is to be said on the subject of education. apparently it needs repeating, though. i just wanted to address, re: "being a resource" - i like being a resource for people. i love teaching (and for that matter learning). i love being able to give people information and links. i also take on that role professionally a lot when doing accessibility work - coordinating people and resources. but too often women, esp poc, and indigenous folks are expected to "be resources" - well, you know what happens to resources? resources get USED UP and commodified and misused and appropriated and stolen and wasted. particularly used up. i'm a human being, not a resource. in my opinion at least as an indigenous woman who's been stuck in the resource position (and sometimes chosen it, too), expecting people - especially marginalized folks - to be a resource is dehumanizing. (in addition to the learning issues.) because not only do we have to be a resource for the new white lesbian girls but we also have to be experts on how to assimilate to white culture without completely being destroyed (and the experts on everything white culture in general), plus, you know, have lives and stuff too.

11-10-2012, 10:34 PM	#3
Reader Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Butch, Dyke, Feminist, Contrarian Preferred Pronoun?: She, her Relationship Status: Single Join Date: May 2011 Location: New Jersey, The Garden State Posts: 732 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,308 Thanked 2,229 Times in 586 Posts Rep Power: 0	I tried to read this whole thread, but I just cannot and do not want to wade through it any further than I did. This thread is a perfect example of the cannibalization that goes on in our community. It's like the operation was a success, but the patient died. What the hell happened to "Sisterhood is Powerful"? Was the revolution a success, yet the sisterhood died? Bleh.

11-10-2012, 10:43 PM	#4
aishah Member How Do You Identify?: queer stone femme shark baby girl Preferred Pronoun?: she, her, little one Relationship Status: dating myself. Join Date: Jan 2012 Location: dallas, tx Posts: 1,495 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 13,823 Thanked 6,440 Times in 1,288 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	the "sisterhood" hasn't often been a place of power and safety and community for indigenous women and women of color. sometimes it's come at our expense. i for one thought the fact that snow got called a bully again for adding to the conversation by sharing what it's like for her to deal with racism on a daily basis again was pretty cannibalizing.

11-11-2012, 08:48 AM	#9
Glenn Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Ol butch bones. Preferred Pronoun?: Old thing Relationship Status: Too old to play. Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: :rolleyes: Posts: 1,547 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 3,602 Thanked 3,729 Times in 1,095 Posts Rep Power: 21474853	There have been many "studs" throughout history that are both female and male who have "planted their seeds" in others spiritually, intellectually, politically, artistically, physically, etc. For example, Jesus was a "stud" imo, who defied the pharisees, and has sired many spiritual giants. But, many do not have the capablities of the orginal "stud", who try to emulate them like many do.,which isn't necessarily a bad thing. It was later that the oringinal teaching was exploited. But then their idealogies or "seeds" continue, until another one is "born" , to give birth to, hopefully, a better world of people.