"Traditional" Masculinity in Today's Society

BullDog · 04-05-2010, 11:53 AM

Dylan, I agree with you that notions of what is masculine and feminine are culturally based and in Western cultures based on white culture in particular.

Just to be clear, I do think walking girls home from school and carrying their books is a stereotype often associated with masculine courtly or courteous behavior. I just happened to enjoy doing that from a young age.

Dylan · 04-05-2010, 12:40 PM

Ok, so then, here's where I get completely confused in these conversations

If 'traditional' ideas of masculine/feminine are culturally based, and

If One believes those cultural bases are misogynist, and

If One is going to scoff 'traditional' ideas of masculine/feminine

Then why are we always talking about it?

I mean, why aren't we all just happy with who we are? And if we are all happy with who we are/however we are...why are we always talking about this?

I don't mean that in a harsh tone, I mean it seriously. I mean, are we trying to redefine it? What is the ideal outcome of (say) this conversation?

I'm really not trying to be obtuse here.

I mean, are we talking about the ways these 'traditional' ideas are perpetuated in our community? Because I've seen that happen to both femmes and butches, and that's pretty crappy...but then, on the other hand, if traditional ideas are someone's cuppa, then, I have a choice to participate or excuse myself, right? I mean, some people like all that traditional stuff, and some folks don't like all that traditional stuff, right?

I mean, I don't think someone should base their whole 'worth' on some stupid traditional idea of what is or isn't masculine/feminine...and I DO get a bit riled when I see stuff like, "this is how a butch/femme *should* act"

And I do get a little riled up when I see masculine/feminine being equated to what het men/women do...and that's how 'butches and femmes *should* act'

So, is this what we're talking about in this thread

And Atlast brought up that some of the 'traditional' ideas are based in misogyny...can someone please give me an example, so I'm more clear on exactly what we're talking about there? Because, I DO think *some* (notice the little asterisks, please) notions are rooted more in biological differences than 'traditional sexism' (notice the bunny ears, please). Oh, and I'm not saying that just because they may have originally been rooted in biological differences, they're not sexist in today's society.

I Hope This Post Is Clear, Although, I Have My Doubts,
Dylan

04-05-2010, 11:53 AM	#1
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,640 Times in 4,463 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	Dylan, I agree with you that notions of what is masculine and feminine are culturally based and in Western cultures based on white culture in particular. Just to be clear, I do think walking girls home from school and carrying their books is a stereotype often associated with masculine courtly or courteous behavior. I just happened to enjoy doing that from a young age. __________________ Love consists in this, that two solitudes protect and touch and greet each other. - Rainer Maria Rilke

04-05-2010, 12:40 PM	#2
Dylan Timed Out How Do You Identify?: Permanently Banned 10/2010 Preferred Pronoun?: He Relationship Status: She thinks all my jokes are corny Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: Great State O' Posts: 880 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 1,027 Thanked 1,838 Times in 500 Posts Rep Power: 0	Ok, so then, here's where I get completely confused in these conversations If 'traditional' ideas of masculine/feminine are culturally based, and If One believes those cultural bases are misogynist, and If One is going to scoff 'traditional' ideas of masculine/feminine Then why are we always talking about it? I mean, why aren't we all just happy with who we are? And if we are all happy with who we are/however we are...why are we always talking about this? I don't mean that in a harsh tone, I mean it seriously. I mean, are we trying to redefine it? What is the ideal outcome of (say) this conversation? I'm really not trying to be obtuse here. I mean, are we talking about the ways these 'traditional' ideas are perpetuated in our community? Because I've seen that happen to both femmes and butches, and that's pretty crappy...but then, on the other hand, if traditional ideas are someone's cuppa, then, I have a choice to participate or excuse myself, right? I mean, some people like all that traditional stuff, and some folks don't like all that traditional stuff, right? I mean, I don't think someone should base their whole 'worth' on some stupid traditional idea of what is or isn't masculine/feminine...and I DO get a bit riled when I see stuff like, "this is how a butch/femme should act" And I do get a little riled up when I see masculine/feminine being equated to what het men/women do...and that's how 'butches and femmes should act' So, is this what we're talking about in this thread And Atlast brought up that some of the 'traditional' ideas are based in misogyny...can someone please give me an example, so I'm more clear on exactly what we're talking about there? Because, I DO think some (notice the little asterisks, please) notions are rooted more in biological differences than 'traditional sexism' (notice the bunny ears, please). Oh, and I'm not saying that just because they may have originally been rooted in biological differences, they're not sexist in today's society. I Hope This Post Is Clear, Although, I Have My Doubts, Dylan