For the Love of Intentions!!

thedivahrrrself · 09-19-2013, 07:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Martina

Oh, it has happened. And more than once. And "Southern Pride" is NOT like any other geographic or regional pride. That phrase is code for a lot of ideas that come under white racist ideology. In my experience, Southerners who do NOT intend to express racist ideology do not use that phrase much. At least not Southerners I have known.

Anyway, the conversation has been had, more than once.

Oh, I don't doubt that it happened. And I'm sure any piling was well-deserved. I just haven't personally read those threads.

Cin · 09-19-2013, 08:57 AM

There are definitely issues that are difficult for me to remain calm when discussing. A classist ideology, for example, really sets me off. It’s personal and brings up all kinds of stuff for me. It is totally my issue, and I get that, but that’s my life experience and how I react because of it is not likely to change.

Part of this ideology I often see is equating education with intelligence. This is short sighted in my opinion, not to mention elitist. But in all fairness, of course that would trigger me since I don’t have an education, money or a well paying job. But my issue or not, it’s still a shitty ideology. And a person doesn’t need any education to value critical thinking, they might not necessarily name it that, but they get it and use it, just as much, maybe more, certainly more honestly, than many so called intellectuals. Nobody had to teach me to be logical or reflective or to think both concretely and abstractly. Just like nobody had to teach me to be hypervigilant. They all gave me an edge and upped the odds of my survival.

My speaking voice is a stereotype in itself and causes people to underestimate me. There are a plethora of stuff like that, along with a certain social ineptitude that being raised by wolfs will leave you with, that has made it even more difficult to climb out of the hole I was born into and that I made even deeper by a succession of wrong choices. So when I find someone is judging the value of a human being using financial worth and earning potential as the criteria, I have been known to lose it. I don’t think it’s fair to use that kind of criteria because we all didn’t start this life off from the same socio economic position, we all didn’t have the same opportunities for advancement.

There is a certain kind of folk lore, mostly amongst the advantaged, centered on how poor and working class people, even those from the most horrendous family situations can, if they just apply themselves, rise above their circumstances and become successful. While that is certainly possible in theory, in practice it doesn’t work, the idea itself lacks both honesty and empathy and only succeeds to place the burden of and the result from poverty and an abusive childhood squarely on the shoulders of the victim. Blame the victim ideology also pisses me off. There is a privileged belief that cream rises to the top and anyone of value will be capable of picking themselves up by their bootstraps and becoming successful. Framed within this ideology, success is defined as financial. I think people like me are immensely successful if we are still standing when the smoke clears and can pass muster as a functional human being. Big kudos for that I think, don’t be so sure you could have done it.

I understand everybody gets to choose who they want around them and they have the right to judge the less fortunate as losers who lack motivation and drive and just simply eliminate poor people as potential friends and lovers if they desire. I just think it’s dumb. And it pisses me off. But even with an issue like this, an issue that is clearly a trigger for me, I can step back before I attack and ask myself what I want from the exchange I am about to enter into. Do I just want the satisfaction of telling the person what I think of their classist attitude or do I want the opportunity of planting a seed of doubt in their hearts and in their minds? I might not get the person to look at their beliefs and reevaluate them regardless of how I handle the situation, but I surely won’t even get a chance if I just tell them they are elitist assholes. Well nothing beyond allowing myself to indulge in something that is shallow but satisfying. Like making an allowance for the empty calories in chocolate because it tastes good. But too much indulging of any kind isn’t good for the spirit. And I find it much easier to be civil, even to those whose personal beliefs offend me deeply, if I think of this attempt to change someone’s opinion as something I am doing to honor myself as well as others like me. If I make it more about doing it for me it’s easier to take the high road.

I find asking myself what I want works in every situation in which I am going to confront someone. I think about what I want to achieve with the interaction. Do I want to open up a dialogue or do I want to shut down any opportunity for productive conversation? Hopefully I will choose dialogue, even though sometimes it feels like it would be more satisfying and I know it would take less energy (which mostly ends up as just so much wasted hot air) to just tell the person to go fuck themselves. Hard.

I just meant to say enough to show how difficult this issue is for me. And to talk about the things I tell myself so I can still try to have a meaningful conversation with someone who holds a classist ideology. That was really the point of all this. What i say to get it up to have a civil conversation with someone who pushes all my buttons.

09-19-2013, 08:57 AM	#2
Cin Senior Member How Do You Identify?: Butch Preferred Pronoun?: she Relationship Status: Truly Madly Deeply Join Date: Aug 2011 Location: In My Head Posts: 2,814 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 6,333 Thanked 10,436 Times in 2,476 Posts Rep Power: 21474851	There are definitely issues that are difficult for me to remain calm when discussing. A classist ideology, for example, really sets me off. It’s personal and brings up all kinds of stuff for me. It is totally my issue, and I get that, but that’s my life experience and how I react because of it is not likely to change. Part of this ideology I often see is equating education with intelligence. This is short sighted in my opinion, not to mention elitist. But in all fairness, of course that would trigger me since I don’t have an education, money or a well paying job. But my issue or not, it’s still a shitty ideology. And a person doesn’t need any education to value critical thinking, they might not necessarily name it that, but they get it and use it, just as much, maybe more, certainly more honestly, than many so called intellectuals. Nobody had to teach me to be logical or reflective or to think both concretely and abstractly. Just like nobody had to teach me to be hypervigilant. They all gave me an edge and upped the odds of my survival. My speaking voice is a stereotype in itself and causes people to underestimate me. There are a plethora of stuff like that, along with a certain social ineptitude that being raised by wolfs will leave you with, that has made it even more difficult to climb out of the hole I was born into and that I made even deeper by a succession of wrong choices. So when I find someone is judging the value of a human being using financial worth and earning potential as the criteria, I have been known to lose it. I don’t think it’s fair to use that kind of criteria because we all didn’t start this life off from the same socio economic position, we all didn’t have the same opportunities for advancement. There is a certain kind of folk lore, mostly amongst the advantaged, centered on how poor and working class people, even those from the most horrendous family situations can, if they just apply themselves, rise above their circumstances and become successful. While that is certainly possible in theory, in practice it doesn’t work, the idea itself lacks both honesty and empathy and only succeeds to place the burden of and the result from poverty and an abusive childhood squarely on the shoulders of the victim. Blame the victim ideology also pisses me off. There is a privileged belief that cream rises to the top and anyone of value will be capable of picking themselves up by their bootstraps and becoming successful. Framed within this ideology, success is defined as financial. I think people like me are immensely successful if we are still standing when the smoke clears and can pass muster as a functional human being. Big kudos for that I think, don’t be so sure you could have done it. I understand everybody gets to choose who they want around them and they have the right to judge the less fortunate as losers who lack motivation and drive and just simply eliminate poor people as potential friends and lovers if they desire. I just think it’s dumb. And it pisses me off. But even with an issue like this, an issue that is clearly a trigger for me, I can step back before I attack and ask myself what I want from the exchange I am about to enter into. Do I just want the satisfaction of telling the person what I think of their classist attitude or do I want the opportunity of planting a seed of doubt in their hearts and in their minds? I might not get the person to look at their beliefs and reevaluate them regardless of how I handle the situation, but I surely won’t even get a chance if I just tell them they are elitist assholes. Well nothing beyond allowing myself to indulge in something that is shallow but satisfying. Like making an allowance for the empty calories in chocolate because it tastes good. But too much indulging of any kind isn’t good for the spirit. And I find it much easier to be civil, even to those whose personal beliefs offend me deeply, if I think of this attempt to change someone’s opinion as something I am doing to honor myself as well as others like me. If I make it more about doing it for me it’s easier to take the high road. I find asking myself what I want works in every situation in which I am going to confront someone. I think about what I want to achieve with the interaction. Do I want to open up a dialogue or do I want to shut down any opportunity for productive conversation? Hopefully I will choose dialogue, even though sometimes it feels like it would be more satisfying and I know it would take less energy (which mostly ends up as just so much wasted hot air) to just tell the person to go fuck themselves. Hard. I just meant to say enough to show how difficult this issue is for me. And to talk about the things I tell myself so I can still try to have a meaningful conversation with someone who holds a classist ideology. That was really the point of all this. What i say to get it up to have a civil conversation with someone who pushes all my buttons.