What are your three non-negotiables (in a relationship)?

[DJ4321]

Holy cow! You sweet little femmes might just have opened my eyes a little bit! Can it possibly be that I've lived this long without learning this? I think maybe this is why I'm drawn to you soft, cuddly teddy bears---you appear like you need us Butches, but maybe it's really us Butches who need you!
You have all given me lots to contemplate--am I looking in a mirror, am I really just shutting down the conversation, am I afraid to honestly see so I just call it "drama"? Very interesting indeed.
Thanks everyone for your honesty and willingness to help this butch.

[Jar]

Originally Posted by DJ4321

Holy cow! You sweet little femmes might just have opened my eyes a little bit! Can it possibly be that I've lived this long without learning this? I think maybe this is why I'm drawn to you soft, cuddly teddy bears---you appear like you need us Butches, but maybe it's really us Butches who need you!
You have all given me lots to contemplate--am I looking in a mirror, am I really just shutting down the conversation, am I afraid to honestly see so I just call it "drama"? Very interesting indeed.
Thanks everyone for your honesty and willingness to help this butch.

I don't mean to criticize but this post feels a little condescending. I don't think you mean any harm but sometimes our (mine too) posts come across totally wrong.

I do agree with one thing you said .... That it's us butches that need femmes! I crave that energy. The exchange between butch and femme is like no other energy.

[Ginger]

I saw the post equating femmes with drama-makers.

Let me add to my list of non-negotiables, sexism.

[Cole]

1. Must love cats
2. Honest/trustworthy
3. Acceptance for who I am as a person - don't try and change me!

[lamuymuyfem]

Originally Posted by DJ4321

Holy cow! You sweet little femmes might just have opened my eyes a little bit! Can it possibly be that I've lived this long without learning this? I think maybe this is why I'm drawn to you soft, cuddly teddy bears---you appear like you need us Butches, but maybe it's really us Butches who need you!
You have all given me lots to contemplate--am I looking in a mirror, am I really just shutting down the conversation, am I afraid to honestly see so I just call it "drama"? Very interesting indeed.
Thanks everyone for your honesty and willingness to help this butch.

CIJS…which is another thread….This sweet-but-assertive, not-so little femme would lovingly ask you to continue your self-reflection…..

Butch Femme Planet is never boring and a great place to learn new things……..DJ4321, enjoy your journey of discovery.

[DJ4321]

thank you very much lamuymuyfem and others who have responded. This is all making me chuckle--and shake my head as well. I appreciate the way you disagreed with me but didn't do so in a critical way. Rather in a way that invited me to continue learning.
That is one thing this journey is all about, learning along our way. Others may not see things the way we do, we may not see they way we do, but if we can keep ourselves open to learning, maybe we can learn new and better ways along the way.
I respect whatever you believe are your "deal breakers" all I ask is that you respect what I consider mine. By the same token, I want to grow as a person and if my "deal breakers" are holding me back from growing, then by all means I would want to hear about that, have an opportunity to reflect on that and then make my own decisions.
Thanks all and may our energy continue to help each of us develop into stronger people.

Originally Posted by DJ4321

Holy cow! You sweet little femmes might just have opened my eyes a little bit! Can it possibly be that I've lived this long without learning this? I think maybe this is why I'm drawn to you soft, cuddly teddy bears---you appear like you need us Butches, but maybe it's really us Butches who need you!
You have all given me lots to contemplate--am I looking in a mirror, am I really just shutting down the conversation, am I afraid to honestly see so I just call it "drama"? Very interesting indeed.
Thanks everyone for your honesty and willingness to help this butch.

Really?

Answering with yet more of the same assumptions and sexist language doesn't really help yer cause mate.
You'll find plenty of strong, capable, articulate femmes who will be telling you why such attitudes and language are unacceptable. Pin back yer ears!

* handy hint alert
May I suggest reading around the site. You'll learn lots if you remain open-minded and willing to learn. I've learned lots about my attitudes by being a member here and reading...lots.

[Jar]

Originally Posted by Daktari

Really?

Answering with yet more of the same assumptions and sexist language doesn't really help yer cause mate.
You'll find plenty of strong, capable, articulate femmes who will be telling you why such attitudes and language are unacceptable.

Well said and I totally agree!

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by DJ4321

Holy cow! You sweet little femmes might just have opened my eyes a little bit! Can it possibly be that I've lived this long without learning this? I think maybe this is why I'm drawn to you soft, cuddly teddy bears---you appear like you need us Butches, but maybe it's really us Butches who need you!
You have all given me lots to contemplate--am I looking in a mirror, am I really just shutting down the conversation, am I afraid to honestly see so I just call it "drama"? Very interesting indeed.
Thanks everyone for your honesty and willingness to help this butch.

I'm not sure where to start deconstructing this head-patting, sexist mess, but I wonder if this second post was yet another attempt to start drama since your first post didn't quite get enough fire breathing aimed at you to justify your repellent assertion that femmes are drama prone? You should open your eyes and look in the mirror, indeed.

Of course I always suspect we're getting played by a troll whenever it's as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

[Violette]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

I'm not sure where to start deconstructing this head-patting, sexist mess, but I wonder if this second post was yet another attempt to start drama since your first post didn't quite get enough fire breathing aimed at you to justify your repellent assertion that femmes are drama prone? You should open your eyes and look in the mirror, indeed.

Of course I always suspect we're getting played by a troll whenever it's as easy as shooting fish in a barrel.

Yes, Yes, Yes! And Yes! The thought that this is a troll has crossed my mind several times. Especially after the second post. "Sweet little femmes..." Wow.

[nycfem]

This thread has had a recent report which I wanted to acknowledge (thank you). We try to stay out of the thread if people are working things out directly with each other which seems to be the case right now. If someone is truly found to be a troll of course they will be banned but sometimes it takes some time to figure that out. Just an update that we are alerted and also that the reason there has been no administrative stepping in at this point is that people are speaking up on the thread themselves.

[Jar]

Originally Posted by Violette

Yes, Yes, Yes! And Yes! The thought that this is a troll has crossed my mind several times. Especially after the second post. "Sweet little femmes..." Wow.

This was my first thought too.

[nanners]

I can assure you this person, DJ is not a troll. I know her, and in fact have dated her and introduced her to this site. I cringed when I read her posts, knowing she has a lot to learn about the butch femme dynamic and this site. I hesitated to even post, because we are no longer dating but she truly is a good person, just has a lot to learn, as do we all when we enter unfamiliar territory.

[Jar]

Originally Posted by nanners

I can assure you this person, DJ is not a troll

Thanks! I had meant to ask you if it was the same one

[imperfect_cupcake]

No, not a troll. But attention seeking and has a touch of RADA (Royal Acadamy for the Dramatic Arts) flare....

One thing I have noticed is that some of the most dramatic butches I have ever dated accused me of drama whenever I was calling them on their shit or bringing up something that I was dealing with. Whenever it was their issue or their bringing up subjects, not surprisingly, it was no longer considered drama.

I pretty much now consider that word to be provocative and looking to cause an arguement in order to be proved right. That's like calling someone over-sensitive and if they chose to get defensive, then you can say "look, see you are getting irate already!" It is a manipulative trick that people use to derail a discussion of hand.

feminine is often equated with: bitchiness, drama, over-sensitivity, manipulative, irrational, over-emotional, petty, over-complicated, and gossips.

so just by having a feminine countinance I am pre judged of having these traits and to some people no matter what comes out of my mouth, they will view me through that glass. If someone with a masculine gender accent speaks the same words, suddenly it's not.

I don't personally like being told that I'm just like everyone who has a slightly feminine expression is like before even opening my mouth. "femmes are...." can very easily replaced with "gays are..." "women are...." "queers are...."

cause we are taking ONE attribute (be it sexuality or gender accent) and applying it to mean hundreds of other personality traits.

My butch partners have ALL cried more than I do. They have ALL been more afraid of bugs than me. They have ALL loved babies more than me (please don't give me one. I am that awkward person that sits with it looking terrified) but that has more to do with the kind of people I choose to be with, than an an entire global gender. And it may be just my expereince but I know that not every single butch out there is a soppy, bug fearing, baby loving, attention seeking prince.

I just tend to like certain types of people within that gender group and thus wind up getting other predictable traits with it.

If you don't want any drama in your life at all, and I've had plenty sobbing, chest pounding, hair ripping, finger pointing, nagging, drunk at 3am banging on my window, waking up the neighbours, saying inappropriate things to my mom, etc butch persons, it's not just the realm of femme that can throw a spectacular fit... *eyeball roll*....some of the best of the best have been from a butch in my life.... then stay single and don't have many relationships with people, including and avoid public dealings. People have emotions. Avoid them. And don't have any yourself.

[VintageFemme]

A strong heart.

Honesty.

Musically literate [while this may seem pretty weak, it is not without merit & much like one's shoe style, or the question... if you could be a car, which car would you be? ...is very telling.]

A fine rack ...I never said I wasn't easy!

Deconstruct visual art and articulate what you think about any given visual media.

The ability to harmonise and pick out the oddest harmonies alongside me keeping the melody strong.
Whoever warbles first loses!

[SaltyButch]

Three non-negotiables other than some obvious ones already mentioned;

Communication: If you are not able to express yourself or what your needs are or understand my need for communication, it's not going to work.

Explorative: I am always seeking knowledge, so would want someone that feels the same no matter the subject.

Caring: In relation to herself,me and those people and things around us.

[Stud_puppy1991]

1. Don't ever expect me to be anything other than myself. In other words, don't get involved with me if you aren't ready or willing to be with me as me. If you are just wanting me to be your mold and be what you want, forget it.

2. Don't manipulate me or control me in any aspect. I am not someone's pet, and I won't have a leash. I also will not have someone tell me how I need to be or how to go about things. And honestly, it isn't going to work.

3. Don't play games with me. If something is an issue to you, tell me. If I make you unhappy or uncomfortable, let me know. Don't lead me on or play me for a fool, because I will find out. No matter what it is, always come to me.

[Genesis]

my eight non-negotiables in a relationship are:

1. Integrity,
2. Self-respect,
3. Pro-active communication,
4. Versatility: knowing how to move and dance with life and all the turns
and twists that come with it.
5. Love and live life to it's fullest potential.
6. Love to dance, travel and be a life long learner.
7. Must love to taste and try new foods.
8. Playful sense of humor.