Obama's Health Care Overhaul: Your Opinions

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Jess

Actually, she was judged. I don't blame her for wanting to step away from the conversation. Her first judgement was that she was racist. She apologized and it wasn't enough.

I have had this conversation on this site before and will not subject my home to it again. Be clear. Not coming to defend anyone. Just noting that yes, she was judged. Please go back and read it all from the beginning.

Sometimes a healthy distance gives us all a better perspective. I try not to judge folks who have a different experience in life than I have had. I try not to judge folks who say things with words that don't sit well with me. I try. Sometimes I fail to make my point clearly or concisely without ruffling feathers. I guess if I put myself out there, then I am due my own lil ass whooping.

If someone tries and feels they have failed and says they need to step aside, that should be honored and enough. Just my opinion.

If she feels so judged then maybe it's best she remove herself from the thread. The parting shot of " I am tired of people thinking I am uneducated, selfish, or stupid because I have a different opinion." is pure pitty me BS. It's manipulative and high school angst.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by Corkey

If she feels so judged then maybe it's best she remove herself from the thread. The parting shot of " I am tired of people thinking I am uneducated, selfish, or stupid because I have a different opinion." is pure pitty me BS. It's manipulative and high school angst.

I saw it as her giving reason for removing herself. Her right to do so. I see a lot of shit as high school angst and it saddens me.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by Jess

I saw it as her giving reason for removing herself. Her right to do so. I see a lot of shit as high school angst and it saddens me.

I see it as "no one agrees with me so I'm going to go into a corner and pout".
It's politics folks, not high school.

[Jess]

Whew... not to beat a dead horse, as it is no longer about her but about our responses to her action. I think you really want to beat up on her because she didn't agree with you. Sorry. I like your additions to most threads and all, but I gotta part ways on this one man. A woman stands up for what she truly feels is right and gets bashed for it. Some do it with an educational purpose. Some do it just to be right.
Our purpose here is to grow. By here, I mean on this lil planet.. not website. How are we supposed to do that when folks just immediately bash us back into the ground? It happened to her. It has happened to others.

I just erased an entire two paragraphs outlining exactly what my "gut reaction" to this healthcare law really is. I know it would make me no friends. Here is how I will pretty it up. It is crap. It is not what should have been done and now will only delay what needs to be done in its undoing. Period. I can't afford insurance. I have chronic illness. I will be asked to pay a penalty AND pay my medical bills out of pocket. I have to now pay attorney fees to find ways to protect my home. I think it was an act of cowardice and a disservice to the American people. Meanwhile, every year that this is allowed to stand, my penalties will increase just as the Romney care in Mass has done.

Would have been better off without it. That is the statement from a poor person who can't afford it. It will do me no favors.

[Corkey]

Jess, it isn't personal, never has been. For 5 years I had no health care at all. No job, and No prospect of being hired because of my disability. I fought tooth and nail for my SSOC disability benefits. This law is better than doing nothing while people starve to death waiting on disability to kick in. Had I been able to get medical intervention sooner I may not have had to have shoulder surgery when I did. That would have saved $25,000. for the one shoulder. I worked all my life paid into the system for over 30 years and now have the benefit of Medicare, which I also have to have a separate health care insurance to cover everything Medicare doesn't, which is everything. I lost my home, had to move back with my ex, till I met the one person who just didn't care about my ableness and who took care of me. I am lucky, I know this, there are thousands out here who have no one to take care of them, to love them and pay for the medical help they need till the system decides it's gonna give them what they have paid for. Yet when President Obama signed this law, it made white america stand up and become ever bigger racists.
Is this law perfect, no it is a step in the right direction. Could more have been done, yes, but lets just bemoan every one who it will benefit in the mean time. When presented with facts of what the law actually does for the people it is ment to help there is such outrage that people actually have to step up and be responsible.
Boggles my mind.

[key]

"I must not be liberal thank god. "

That is a quote from the person who left because she felt like she was being judged. That was posted long before I posted my rant about wishing she cared enough to work together politically to change our f-ed up system (not just health care, the entire predator capitalist system we operate under).

The other thing I could not stand reading from her over and over was how lazy she thought other people (I guess people in need specifically) were. F that! Most poor people have to work twice as hard to get half as much in this country. And if anyone should know that she should!

Anyway. I agree with you Jess that this "reform" is f-ed up, but after not having health insurance for the 10 years that I have been self employed, I don't care, I want to see a doctor without fear of going bankrupt due to what they may find.

Jess, there are hardship waivers in this law, have you looked through it? Are you sure that your only option is to take the fine and pay out of pocket? If you feel comfortable PMing me (or posting here) with details of your situation I could comb through this bill and try and answer your specific questions.

Have you done the subsidy calculator already?

[casey35]

To those who are what they are . Hope u all well. But I still believe what i believe. We will see taxes raised and I will be waiting for the day to say I told you so.

[Corkey]

Oh good grief. Does this mean you actually read the law? Or is it a thumb your nose at everyone who disagrees with you? All we ask is that you read it, digest what it means, even to you.

Here I'll even do your leg work for you.
Here it is :http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc...ter_HR3590.pdf

[casey35]

[QUOTE=Corkey;93041]Oh good grief. Does this mean you actually read the law? Or is it a thumb your nose at everyone who disagrees with you? All we ask is that you read it, digest what it means, even to you.

Here I'll even do your leg work for you.
Here it is :http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc...ter_HR3590.pdf[/QU

At this time I would not care what the bill said. To me they can take the bill and shove it up where the sun dont shine. I really dont fucking care. Sorry to those who know me for using the foul language.

[Corkey]

[quote=casey35;93053]

Originally Posted by Corkey

Oh good grief. Does this mean you actually read the law? Or is it a thumb your nose at everyone who disagrees with you? All we ask is that you read it, digest what it means, even to you.

Here I'll even do your leg work for you.
Here it is :http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc...ter_HR3590.pdf[/QU

At this time I would not care what the bill said. To me they can take the bill and shove it up where the sun dont shine. I really dont fucking care. Sorry to those who know me for using the foul language.

Done trying to reason with a rock.

[casey35]

[quote=Corkey;93055]

Originally Posted by casey35

Done trying to reason with a rock.

That fine but I did not have a disagreement with u. Most of mine was to Key. I read yours and understood them.

[christie]

Originally Posted by key

"I must not be liberal thank god. "

That is a quote from the person who left because she felt like she was being judged. That was posted long before I posted my rant about wishing she cared enough to work together politically to change our f-ed up system (not just health care, the entire predator capitalist system we operate under).

The other thing I could not stand reading from her over and over was how lazy she thought other people (I guess people in need specifically) were. F that! Most poor people have to work twice as hard to get half as much in this country. And if anyone should know that she should!

Anyway. I agree with you Jess that this "reform" is f-ed up, but after not having health insurance for the 10 years that I have been self employed, I don't care, I want to see a doctor without fear of going bankrupt due to what they may find.

Jess, there are hardship waivers in this law, have you looked through it? Are you sure that your only option is to take the fine and pay out of pocket? If you feel comfortable PMing me (or posting here) with details of your situation I could comb through this bill and try and answer your specific questions.

Have you done the subsidy calculator already?

Key -

Thank you for your offer. I have read the bill and know not only what it won't entail for Jess, but also the fallout to both mine and my special needs son's current coverage. Part of my job is benefits administration and I also can forecast the impact it will have on the coverage we currently offer to our employees.

Just a few thoughts off the top of my head...

Yes, its grand that pre-exists will be no longer. What it doesn't do is cap the premium for those with pre-exists. Unfortunately, I believe that most currently uninsured folks will have higher premiums b/c of this "oversight" in the bill. That will only burden the subsidy/funding issue further.

The tax on the "cadillac plans" - I see this as being handed down to employers in rate hikes - I currently offer three different coverages to our employees - all three would fall into this category. Do you think that BCBS is gonna just absorb the cost?? Hell no. We will see it in rate increases, but they will be much more than the 12-15% per year increases we have seen over the last 4 years and it will effectively force the small business who has employed folks for over 57 years to drop health coverage.

That the federal government would oversee any new plans?? Oh hell no - if Medicare is a shining example of oversight, I'll pass, thanks. Don't even get me started on the Part D debacle and how most of the legislators supporting it went on to be bankrolled by the pharmaceutical companies.

I watched as the state of TN took Medicaid dollars and pooled them into several managed care programs. Anyone caring to take a look at that successful model, feel free to google "TennCare." It was a fiasco that left many covered individuals without medical care because the administration of the plans was so fucked up, providers stopped accepting patients if they were TNCare recipients.

Do I think we need a single payer system? Yes. Do I think that people such as my beloved Jess need to battle chronic, debilitating illness without consistent, proper, adequate medical care? No. Do I think that ANYONE should have to choose between healthcare and food? No. Do I want my government, who has a glorious way of fucking up the simplest of things, involved in the insurance coverage that my son depends on? No. I want a solution - a workable solution. Not a Band-Aid on a gushing artery.

I think this was another "throwing a bone" so that it looked good for midterm elections. I think it was a piss poor effort and would have rather our elected officials really grown a set of balls and went for the tougher fight of Single Payer. It really would have been worth it and not felt like we were sold out or that they settled yet once again.

[MsDemeanor]

If it weren't for the Party Of No, aka the Senate Republicans, filibustering virtually everything that has come through the Senate (they really have, go check for yourself) and refusing to sign on to absolutely anything the Obama supports, even if those same Republicans have written or sponsored the same language/ideas/concepts in the past, then we'd have real health reform. Instead, we have a few dozen people who are so hell bent on the black man in the white house failing that they will screw over this entire country and not give a rats ass.

Their latest slimy decision, buy the way, was to filibuster debate of Wall Street Reform in the Senate. They didn't filibuster a bill, they said we won't even allow this to be discussed on the floor of the Senate, in front of the American People. I officially have nothing nice to say to and/or about any Republican. The Senate Republicans are the scum of the earth, and anyone who supports them is swimming in the same scum.

I'm over it.

[key]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

If it weren't for the Party Of No, aka the Senate Republicans, filibustering virtually everything that has come through the Senate (they really have, go check for yourself) and refusing to sign on to absolutely anything the Obama supports, even if those same Republicans have written or sponsored the same language/ideas/concepts in the past, then we'd have real health reform. Instead, we have a few dozen people who are so hell bent on the black man in the white house failing that they will screw over this entire country and not give a rats ass.

Their latest slimy decision, buy the way, was to filibuster debate of Wall Street Reform in the Senate. They didn't filibuster a bill, they said we won't even allow this to be discussed on the floor of the Senate, in front of the American People. I officially have nothing nice to say to and/or about any Republican. The Senate Republicans are the scum of the earth, and anyone who supports them is swimming in the same scum.

I'm over it.

But to be fair most Democrats are just as slimey as the Republicans. But to be fair, at this point the only decent handful of politicians in Washington right now are in the Democratic Party (and the Independent, Democratic/Socialist Bernie Sanders).

And I agree, anyone supporting any Republican at this time in our nations history is, in my opinion, a traitor to this country and should be treated accordingly. They are dragging us back to pre-revolution days. I honestly think that is what they mean when they say they want to "take our country back". Back to when women and blacks and any other minority were simply rich white men's property.

How these rich white men are (still) convincing poor people to fight for their rights to own them is baffling, just baffling to me. But then again when the only news and information available to these poor communities is Fox "News" and Rush Limbaugh....well, it does begin to make sense. Keep the poor people afraid of the other poor people so they never band together. It has worked for generation after generation.

[casey35]

Originally Posted by key

But to be fair most Democrats are just as slimey as the Republicans. But to be fair, at this point the only decent handful of politicians in Washington right now are in the Democratic Party (and the Independent, Democratic/Socialist Bernie Sanders).

And I agree, anyone supporting any Republican at this time in our nations history is, in my opinion, a traitor to this country and should be treated accordingly. They are dragging us back to pre-revolution days. I honestly think that is what they mean when they say they want to "take our country back". Back to when women and blacks and any other minority were simply rich white men's property.

How these rich white men are (still) convincing poor people to fight for their rights to own them is baffling, just baffling to me. But then again when the only news and information available to these poor communities is Fox "News" and Rush Limbaugh....well, it does begin to make sense. Keep the poor people afraid of the other poor people so they never band together. It has worked for generation after generation.

key you are an ass hole because my family is republican, My Dad served 34 years in the military so u need to back up and get off your high horse thinking u are always right.

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by casey35

key you are an ass hole because my family is republican, My Dad served 34 years in the military so u need to back up and get off your high horse thinking u are always right.

I'm sorry, what in the hell has this got to do with health care? I'm not going to report you for this out burst, I can't say the same for anyone else, but it isn't called for. If you can't debate the issues, perhaps you need to look inward as to why.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by casey35

key you are an ass hole because my family is republican, My Dad served 34 years in the military so u need to back up and get off your high horse thinking u are always right.

I am a flaming ass progressive...who voted for Reagan the first time and was a Republican.......my family on my father's side has bunches of career military........bunches of them for generations.......some of them were warriors who met the Mayflower and some of them were on the Mayflower or with the Conquistadors.............

I would suggest, as a Vietnam Era veteran, that you might need to back up yourself.

And............just to be clear...........you never actually addressed any of dreadgeek's points.......

I, for one, want to know how you think a flawed bill that addresses the payment of health care costs ....and it will benefit you regardless of what you think........is somehow going to cause you harm?

It's a shame that you refuse to access food stamps and other government programs that you actually paid for........you paid ahead for a time you (or someone else) might have a need for assistance.

Thinking you can do everything alone......well.......one day you will find out asking for help and getting it in the form of health care or food or housing or ______ is not a sin or a sign of weakness or a hand-out .........

getting food stamps or any other 'entitlement benefit' is simply a hand-up based on your previous payment of taxes into the system......by not accessing the services you have already paid for makes you a fool and hungry and bitter ...........

by the way........calling folks names to avoid answering questions or responding to thoughtful posts is childish at best..............careful how you show your own ass.......

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by casey35

key you are an ass hole because my family is republican, My Dad served 34 years in the military so u need to back up and get off your high horse thinking u are always right.

Aside from the name calling here, you have struck yet another nerve for me and the countless members here that I know to have served in the military (I have not). And not just a few of whom had to exit due to DADT.

I get really angry when I hear not only the nonsense about those that work, don't work or don't want to work (tell me, how many of these so called slackers have you interviewed personally?), but also when a person falls back on family history of military service as a shot against liberal or progressive social thinkers as being non-patriotic.

I don't come from a distinguished US military family, but my Dad, brother, 2 Uncles and several cousins served as enlisted women and men (on the front lines) in the military from WWII onward, covering it, Korea, Vietnam, & Desert Storm. Additionally, I have relatives that were relocated to camps here in the Good ‘Ole USA under the Enemy Aliens Acts along with the Japanese and other immigrant groups at the very same time my Uncles were serving in WWII overseas. Thinking maybe it is I that ought to be so pissed at the government!! I have both family and friends with loved ones in Afghanistan & Iraq right now, which are on their 3rd & 4th tour of duty.

Although I question the politics about the various wars we have been and are engaged in, I thank and shake the hand of every single service person I run into in public in a uniform. I do this because I mean it and support them and know that they do not make the war policy. I lost several friends in Vietnam before they reached age 20. I was sickened by how the Vietnam veterans were treated upon their return home- even if I disagreed with that conflict.

I have had times that the people I am with when I walk up to service people and thank them that think its weird due to my political thoughts and social ideology. What I say to them is that I can disagree with the politics and still appreciate the sacrifices these people are making on my behalf. I am no less a patriot than any tea bagging, anti-government nut-cake when it comes to supporting those that serve. I also have expressed appreciation for those that have served the US in many other kinds of ways such as through the Peace Corps, Vista, Habitat for Humanity, etc. All of these people are giving something back.

I can appreciate your beliefs, although, you do appear to have some bigoted views, as your own. But, please do not assume that those of us that have more liberal political and ideological attitudes are somehow not patriotic or do not recognize what our military does and what their entire family goes through when they are serving.

Frankly, this liberal queer has no problem with more of my tax money going to the various programs to benefit service people that need so much support returning from the wars we are in and are not getting. That makes me sick, too! They deserve better.

[casey35]

Originally Posted by key

But to be fair most Democrats are just as slimey as the Republicans. But to be fair, at this point the only decent handful of politicians in Washington right now are in the Democratic Party (and the Independent, Democratic/Socialist Bernie Sanders).

And I agree, anyone supporting any Republican at this time in our nations history is, in my opinion, a traitor to this country and should be treated accordingly. They are dragging us back to pre-revolution days. I honestly think that is what they mean when they say they want to "take our country back". Back to when women and blacks and any other minority were simply rich white men's property.

How these rich white men are (still) convincing poor people to fight for their rights to own them is baffling, just baffling to me. But then again when the only news and information available to these poor communities is Fox "News" and Rush Limbaugh....well, it does begin to make sense. Keep the poor people afraid of the other poor people so they never band together. It has worked for generation after generation.

This is the Admin:
We don't allow folks to post under other members names.
Please create your own screen name if you wish to participate.

[Jess]

Originally Posted by MsDemeanor

If it weren't for the Party Of No, aka the Senate Republicans, filibustering virtually everything that has come through the Senate (they really have, go check for yourself) and refusing to sign on to absolutely anything the Obama supports, even if those same Republicans have written or sponsored the same language/ideas/concepts in the past, then we'd have real health reform. Instead, we have a few dozen people who are so hell bent on the black man in the white house failing that they will screw over this entire country and not give a rats ass.

Their latest slimy decision, buy the way, was to filibuster debate of Wall Street Reform in the Senate. They didn't filibuster a bill, they said we won't even allow this to be discussed on the floor of the Senate, in front of the American People. I officially have nothing nice to say to and/or about any Republican. The Senate Republicans are the scum of the earth, and anyone who supports them is swimming in the same scum.

I'm over it.

Yeah, Rachel Maddow's whole show last night was done using the Republican image with the "just say no" thing written over it. Yes, the Republicans have attempted to stop everything being addressed by democrats ( along with a handful of dem's who have proven where they stand which is alongside the republicans).

here's the way I see it laid out now... We KNOW who is going to vote how on whatever issue comes down the pike, and like the healthcare law, there were enough votes to pass it. So why bother watering shit down anymore. You know you have enough votes, just do it, yes you can..yes you should...

I no longer have any faith in either of the primary parties and will seek independents who have a proven track record in their voting history to spend my vote on.