Ebola, news and discussion

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by Kobi

Texas health worker isolated on cruise ship over possible Ebola contact


I fear not Ebola. I fear the inane stupidity of human beings.

My thoughts exactly! We are a nation that thinks the rules apply to everyone but us.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

My thoughts exactly! We are a nation that thinks the rules apply to everyone but us.

I wish the health care workers in Texas would realize these behaviors are undermining their own credibility. It makes it look like they do not have a clue what quarantine means, or what not using public transportation or being in public places means, and it makes their ability to follow "protocol" highly suspect.

Yesterday, Texas officials had folks in quarantine sign "compliance" agreements with penalties for not following thru. Apparently, that may not be enough. Be interesting to see what the Texas response will be.

[Kelt]

I was glad to see this article form the BBC detailing how a country with resources properly applied, can overcome this.

*********************

Summary from eboladeeply.org

Nigeria and Senegal Cited as Success Stories in Containing Ebola

Nigeria and Senegal could be declared officially free of Ebola within a few days, the BBC reports, as both countries near a period of 42 days without any new cases. As of Friday morning, Senegal was on the brink of being declared Ebola-free . The World Health Organization (WHO) called Nigeria’s successful contact tracing “a piece of world-class epidemiological detective work.” The 42-day period is twice the generally accepted maximum incubation period of the virus.

I think it demonstrates the efficacy of awareness over panic.

[*Anya*]

For me, personally, it is not that I fear Ebola. I fear the infection control practices of hospitals (or lack thereof), I fear the lack of honesty of the CDC and I fear, in general, the lack of of a cohesive, proactive, response to any health crisis in our country.

I have experienced this failure, personally. This is not some abstract concept for me.

Two years ago, as I have written previously in the Listening-to-each other thread- I went into the hospital for gynecological surgery, early in the AM. Before the end of the day, I had a temperature that was sky-high and a case of hospital-acquired Clostridium difficile (C-Dif). I was profoundly ill, wound up in CCU and a 11-12 day hospital stay.

It wasn't finished there. On discharge, among other issues, I had 3-4 relapses of C-Dif between March and September 2012. I had to go back on vancomycin antibiotic (cost of $2,800.00 for each course of treatment) and one episode of kidney infection before stabilizing.

Then, in July of this year, I had a squamous cell cancer removed from my leg in a dermatology out-patient office. Within 3 days, I had methicillin-resistant Staphylococcus aureus (MRSA) in the wound (which was tightly covered with Tegaderm).

This took a month to heal, with a couple of rounds of antibiotics. I went to a university hospital infectious disease specialist who confirmed that I was not a carrier, i.e., I did not have MRSA when I went to the doctor in the first place.

I am an RN. I have worked in hospitals. I went into the hospital with the most positive attitude. An expectation that I would contract C-Dif did not enter my consciousness. I did not even consider that I might get MRSA. I have other minor surgical procedures with no negative outcomes.

I don't only post my personal opinion in this thread. I look for legitimate studies, journals, WHO and CDC's own published information. Jesse's link for EbolaDeeply.org was an excellent source of information, too.

Facts for all of us-both negative and positive are critical. Personal experiences are no less important. They show us that we must be alert, educated and knowledgable, to keep ourselves and those that we love as healthy and safe as we possibly can.

http://www.hospitalinfection.org/essentialfacts.shtml

http://www.cdc.gov/mmwr/preview/mmwr...cid=mm6309a4_w

[TruTexan]

Anya,
I wanted to personally thank you for sharing your opinions in this thread, I sorta picked up on your knowledge and lingo that you might have been in healthcare and have some real life experience in that field. I appreciate all the links you have given and the efforts you have made to make this thread be more complete in knowledge awareness.

I also want to thank those members here that are participating and giving more links with information.

I too am skeptical of the information we are receiving in the Local News here out of Dallas and the CDC. It seems they are running behind telling us more information. There was NOTHING on the 12'oclock news today of the Texas Presbytarian Healthcare worker that boarded a cruise ship and is now isolated and the ship is headed back to the US.

It is Beyond my own comprehension how these healthcare workers are taking slight in that they are being monitored for symptoms of Ebola and are just plane IGNORANT and are taking Public Transportation during their time of self monitoring. It makes me wonder what schools are releasing such idiots into the healthcare field.

I'm too an not so much afraid of the Virus itself, but the lack of concern and proper treatment handling by the Texas Healthcare system in Dallas.

I live only an hour from Dallas in a small town.

ETA: It just amazes me that the CDC HAS TO tell those healthcare workers to STAY OUT OF PUBLIC GATHERINGS, STAY OFF PUBLIC TRANSPORTATION, And NOT TO CONGREGATE IN PUBLIC VENUES. You would certainly THINK that they would have COMMON SENSE NOT TO DO THOSE THINGS because of the Field of work they are in and that the potential risks of EXPOSURE they have had to an EBOLA patient would be first and foremost on their minds and that common sense would kick in. Apparently the ones trying to travel just don't have any common sense or concern for others around them. I say lock their asses up in isolation until they "GET IT" in their thick heads and are passed the time of symptoms that would occur if they were infected. I"m just shaking my damn head here in awe of their stupidity.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by Kelt

I was glad to see this article form the BBC detailing how a country with resources properly applied, can overcome this.

*********************

Summary from eboladeeply.org

Nigeria and Senegal Cited as Success Stories in Containing Ebola

Nigeria and Senegal could be declared officially free of Ebola within a few days, the BBC reports, as both countries near a period of 42 days without any new cases. As of Friday morning, Senegal was on the brink of being declared Ebola-free . The World Health Organization (WHO) called Nigeria’s successful contact

tracing “a piece of world-class epidemiological detective work.” The 42-day period is twice the generally accepted maximum incubation period of the virus.

I think it demonstrates the efficacy of awareness over panic.

I think awareness over panic is the ideal, BUT we live in a country where people get on airplanes, cruise ships and God knows what else, WHILE SELF-MONITORING FOR EBOLA!!!!

See, i have no faith in hospitals...besides the horrors Anya spoke of from personal experience, my mother got c-diff while fighting for her life in the hospital, and finally gave up hope and stopped dialysis. I have had to be in the hospital 5x since she passed, and each time i wondered what i would catch while there. I have to DEMAND that nurses and DOCTORS wash their hands before touching me. Yes, i will admit Ebola terrifies me, and i don't apologize for that.

Ebola cannot be minimized, because the people will not take it seriously IMO.

Let's hear it for some loooonnngggg overdue panic if it makes our government finally do something to help end this world crisis.

[Kelt]

Okay, a couple of things, the nurse who got on the plane checked with the CDC first and was given a green light. Poor judgement on the part of the CDC, not the nurse who sought counsel. The healthcare worker who got on a cruise ship did so before self monitoring went into effect, had no patient contact, and started self monitoring voluntarily as soon as the guidelines were known.

It’s already been established that bugs get around in hospitals and new precautions are going into place as we speak that may be of future benefit in all infectious situations.

Yes, Ebola is a scary virus and I for one am glad I am in the US and not West Africa. I know that my voice as an individual is not likely to be heard but I can also see lots of action on the part of congress who for better or worse are our elected representatives.

I am also glad that the CDC is scrambling to keep up, it would be nice if everything had been perfect upfront. The alternative would have them standing firm on ineffective policies. I say yay for flexibility and updating protocols on the fly to stay on top of changes as they arise.

I was only trying to show that in some places with resources it is possible to stop the spread after it has begun and that it is being done. Certainly not trying to minimize anything.

If the point of this thread/conversation is to encourage panic by highlighting media hype, then so be it, it’s your thread go for it.

[MsTinkerbelly]

Originally Posted by Kelt

Okay, a couple of things, the nurse who got on the plane checked with the CDC first and was given a green light. Poor judgement on the part of the CDC, not the nurse who sought counsel. The healthcare worker who got on a cruise ship did so before self monitoring went into effect, had no patient contact, and started self monitoring voluntarily as soon as the guidelines were known.

It’s already been established that bugs get around in hospitals and new precautions are going into place as we speak that may be of future benefit in all infectious situations.

Yes, Ebola is a scary virus and I for one am glad I am in the US and not West Africa. I know that my voice as an individual is not likely to be heard but I can also see lots of action on the part of congress who for better or worse are our elected representatives.

I am also glad that the CDC is scrambling to keep up, it would be nice if everything had been perfect upfront. The alternative would have them standing firm on ineffective policies. I say yay for flexibility and updating protocols on the fly to stay on top of changes as they arise.

I was only trying to show that in some places with resources it is possible to stop the spread after it has begun and that it is being done. Certainly not
trying to minimize anything.

If the point of this thread/conversation is to encourage panic by highlighting media hype, then so be it, it’s your thread go for it.

Wow, seriously?

Your opinion is welcome here, or anywhere you choose to be. BUT, so is mine. Open dialog/other opinions/debate is a great way to get to know information and other view points.

If you want everyone to agree with you, sorry, not my thing. If you want to fuss and argue your point, here i am.

Peace

[TruTexan]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

Wow, seriously?

Your opinion is welcome here, or anywhere you choose to be. BUT, so is mine. Open dialog/other opinions/debate is a great way to get to know information and other view points.

If you want everyone to agree with you, sorry, not my thing. If you want to fuss and argue your point, here i am.

Peace

that's what I was thinking...... Wow Seriously?
Who said anything to Kelt ? I haven't seen anything in this thread about anything Kelt has been putting in here. I've read the things Kelt has put up for links and I've welcomed input, even thanked everyone for those things. I don't know what made Kelt feel this way,,,,,,geeze


As for me putting in Media relays, I'm putting those in from Dallas area, and just talking about what they are saying.

And for one thing, that damn hospital rep keeps saying if Duncan had walked in holding a damn sign saying that he had Ebola, they were prepared, and and they are still prepared........I CALL THAT BULLSHIT, look at what happened there already. Is this dude serious? He's a knuckle head.

[BrutalDaddy]

This is strictly my own opinion so I'm not basing this off any factual stuff found online or by listening to news media, the government or even CDC.

I can't listen to them right now. Why? Because I do not trust them. Why again? Because instead of letting people know the best things to do to protect themselves from the get go, all they said was, "Oh don't worry. There's no way Ebola will ever reach our shores."

Bullshit.

When it did reach our shores then it turned to, "Oh don't worry. The hospital is equipped to deal with this and are treating this seriously." Instead we find out that not only were the health care workers not properly equipped but obviously not drilled over and over and over and over on how to properly take off possibly infected clothing after dealing with the patient. On top of that, the ball got dropped by allowing "self monitoring" then giving the okay for one nurse who was possibly beginning to show signs to travel on a plane.

Bullshit number two.

Again, this is strictly my own opinion and my opinion is that until the CDC, the government and whoever else has actual, frontline knowledge of Ebola begin telling people in plain, straightforward English on the basic, fundamental things to do to protect themselves, I will continue to take most of what they say as bullshit.

I totally get and understand why they do not wish to "inspire panic and hysteria". I get it. It can lead to more damage and harm being done to those who aren't even sick with Ebola. But guess what? That can happen now, when people who are getting scared DON'T have the correct knowledge and education on this disease.

And while I'm on the topic, the government sure as fuck didn't help me to feel any safer or more confident that they'll start handling the ball instead of dropping it by naming someone who has NO fucking knowledge or skill in the field of medicine to head up and coordinate "the U.S. response to Ebola". Yes, he's got "great management experience both inside the government as well as the private sector" but what happens if, god forbid, this shit does blow up?

Bullshit number three, for me.

I sincerely hope with all of my heart and soul they prove my fears wrong. I really really really do.

Final point, education is key key KEY.

My Buck Twenty's Worth,
Brute.

[Kelt]

Originally Posted by MsTinkerbelly

Wow, seriously?

Your opinion is welcome here, or anywhere you choose to be. BUT, so is mine. Open dialog/other opinions/debate is a great way to get to know information and other view points.

If you want everyone to agree with you, sorry, not my thing. If you want to fuss and argue your point, here i am.

Peace

I did open with a fact check, but otherwise was engaging in open dialog. I just did ‘fuss and argue’ my point, done. I was clarifying my opinion.

No I don’t expect everyone to agree with me, I think it’s clear my thoughts on media hype are in the minority.

I'm not trying to minimize anything about ebola, as I stated above. I don't understand promoting panic, but that is just a difference of opinion which I expressed. I get that others feel differently.

[Kobi]

Originally Posted by Kelt

Okay, a couple of things, the nurse who got on the plane checked with the CDC first and was given a green light. Poor judgement on the part of the CDC, not the nurse who sought counsel. The healthcare worker who got on a cruise ship did so before self monitoring went into effect, had no patient contact, and started self monitoring voluntarily as soon as the guidelines were known.

It’s already been established that bugs get around in hospitals and new precautions are going into place as we speak that may be of future benefit in all infectious situations.

Yes, Ebola is a scary virus and I for one am glad I am in the US and not West Africa. I know that my voice as an individual is not likely to be heard but I can also see lots of action on the part of congress who for better or worse are our elected representatives.

I am also glad that the CDC is scrambling to keep up, it would be nice if everything had been perfect upfront. The alternative would have them standing firm on ineffective policies. I say yay for flexibility and updating protocols on the fly to stay on top of changes as they arise.

I was only trying to show that in some places with resources it is possible to stop the spread after it has begun and that it is being done. Certainly not trying to minimize anything.

If the point of this thread/conversation is to encourage panic by highlighting media hype, then so be it, it’s your thread go for it.

The hard stuff in situations like this is remembering to take everything one hears and sees in the media with a grain of salt cuz mostly likely the information contains an element of truth without knowing the entire story.

As such, when info surfaces, it has to be backtracked to uncover the facts vs the conjecture vs the covering of ones ass vs damage control and such. Complicated stuff to sort out at any level.

This, understandably makes people antsy. It has the appearance of lying, cover ups, conspiracies, and what have you, while the folks who have the arduous task of separating fact from fiction do their jobs.

Even once the facts and fiction are sorted, it may or may not be deemed appropriate to divulge what facts were uncovered for a variety of reasons. This is frustrating.

I think it is important for people to be able to express their fears, questions, and concerns. It helps to relieve their anxiety. It is an opportunity to reassure, share info, and other stuff which may help folks to look at something in a different way. This is also the time folks who have had bad personal experiences with the health care system find the memories and feelings of what they faced resurfacing and mixing with the present situation. It is human nature to do so.

As info emerges, more than one thing has made me raise an eyebrow. Little by little, what seemed unexplainable became very explainable. It was deliberate ass covering along with shifting blame. This too is human nature.

This is a very complicated situation being further complicated by people who are being less than honest. We know the hospital lied. Reports are emerging that the nurse who flew to Ohio was not being honest. I dont know what the lab person on the cruise was thinking.

A lot of time, energy and resources which could be put to better use in dealing with Ebola per se, is being wasted having to mop up after less than honest caregivers with questionable judgement who are not adhering to what they have been told to do and not do. In the process, hundreds of people have potentially been exposed affecting different parts of the country. Businesses like airlines, cruise ships, bridal shops etc have been put at risk. That is just from the 3 we know about. One has to wonder what the rest of the crew has been up to.

The sad part is this undermines not only the credibility but the professionalism of these caregivers all along the line. Poor judgement and a lack of common sense are not good qualities in heath care providers.

[TruTexan]

Originally Posted by Kobi

The hard stuff in situations like this is remembering to take everything one hears and sees in the media with a grain of salt cuz mostly likely the information contains an element of truth without knowing the entire story.

As such, when info surfaces, it has to be backtracked to uncover the facts vs the conjecture vs the covering of ones ass vs damage control and such. Complicated stuff to sort out at any level.

This, understandably makes people antsy. It has the appearance of lying, cover ups, conspiracies, and what have you, while the folks who have the arduous task of separating fact from fiction do their jobs.

Even once the facts and fiction are sorted, it may or may not be deemed appropriate to divulge what facts were uncovered for a variety of reasons. This is frustrating.

I think it is important for people to be able to express their fears, questions, and concerns. It helps to relieve their anxiety. It is an opportunity to reassure, share info, and other stuff which may help folks to look at something in a different way. This is also the time folks who have had bad personal experiences with the health care system find the memories and feelings of what they faced resurfacing and mixing with the present situation. It is human nature to do so.

As info emerges, more than one thing has made me raise an eyebrow. Little by little, what seemed unexplainable became very explainable. It was deliberate ass covering along with shifting blame. This too is human nature.

This is a very complicated situation being further complicated by people who are being less than honest. We know the hospital lied. Reports are emerging that the nurse who flew to Ohio was not being honest. I dont know what the lab person on the cruise was thinking.

A lot of time, energy and resources which could be put to better use in dealing with Ebola per se, is being wasted having to mop up after less than honest caregivers with questionable judgement who are not adhering to what they have been told to do and not do. In the process, hundreds of people have potentially been exposed affecting different parts of the country. Businesses like airlines, cruise ships, bridal shops etc have been put at risk. That is just from the 3 we know about. One has to wonder what the rest of the crew has been up to.

The sad part is this undermines not only the credibility but the professionalism of these caregivers all along the line. Poor judgement and a lack of common sense are not good qualities in heath care providers.

Thank you for this Kobi, very very well said. I heartily agree.

[Medusa]

I'd submit that another possibility with these caregivers had much less to do with being less than honest or having questionable judgment and more to do with being overworked, understaffed, and possibly undertrained.

I know a lot of damned fine caregivers who would not risk their families, much less their own health, over even the slightest hint of possibility of contracting what could be one of the least curable viruses we've seen in a long time (speaking strictly as a lay person on the potentiality of the deadliness here, if someone is an epidemiologist, please do correct me).

I believe they are doing the best they can with what they have.

As for the hospital executives, I don't consider them caregivers (especially if they've never donned scrubs or touched a bedpan full of someone else's diarrhea). They don't have the same incentive to follow the CDC guidelines as the hands-on caregivers do. Their lives are not at stake on the same level.

I just read an article about the crew of an American Airlines flight out of Dallas locked a woman who threw up in the aisle in the bathroom for the last half of her flight.

Guess what color she was?