Dating other femmes exes: what do you think?

[Martina]

Originally Posted by June

I think the difference here is that many of us have been able to develop deep, personal and important relationships with other Femmes and some haven't.

How is this making a difference in terms of this discussion?

I have a close close friend who is femme. I do not think of that friendship as in a different category than other extremely close friendships. I do not think that having this wonderful friendship gives me a significantly different perspective on the world. It's nice to be understood for some parts of myself that I might have to explain to others. On the other hand, she and I are pretty different. She is a Top and does not truly get the subby me. We are very different in terms of who we date and how we interact with our significant people. I would have more common experiences to trade with a straight male sub. But that's not the point of our friendship. While we talk sex and love, we also talk politics and work and how fucked up the commute was and our mothers' neuroses and why cats always jump on your bladder when you have to pee.

[Dance-with-me]

Originally Posted by gaea

Speaking for myself here

None of my ex's are my Possession..

therefore flirt away as it isn't any of my business and if i get my little feelers hurt that's my shit to deal with

Im also gonna go out on a line here and stand up for the stranger in this scenario because no where in the original post did it denote that the 2 were "friends" or best friends for that matter simply that they had on occasion to bump into each other....

I wont live by a code where my ex is suppose to be a possession nor will i live by a code where your ex is your possession unless of course there is a contract with your ex and then respect to that contract simply applies...that's a whole 'nother topic though

in any case perhaps the OP's friend who was "crushed" need pull up her big girl panties and move on already.

This. Exactly, in particular with regard to it being clear that the other femme was nothing more than a nodding acquaintance. I reaslize that this thread took a different direction than the OP stated but I think that point seems to have been lost in the discussion. If I choose to stay away from places my ex is going to be, that's my choice. If I choose to work out an agreement with my ex about who goes to what public/social event so that we don't cross paths, that's my choice. And if I go somewhere and see my EX flirting with someone, or actually WITH someone new, if that person is not someone with whom I would normally have serious personal conversations, and we don't have any kind of deep friendship, then how I respond to seeing my ex with someone else is MY CHOICE. I can choose to behave immaturely as if I owned my ex and as if this acquaintance somehow owed me the loyalty to be hands-off or discrete or whatever, or, as was just stated, I can pull up my big girl panties and deal with my own shit and move on.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Words

Thanks, but it wasn't your comments that bothered me.

A couple of other folks have several times now implied that it's a simple case of choosing between a long standing relationship with a femme 'sister' and 'sexy time' with her ex and that obviously, the relationship should take priority. I just don't think it's that simple, and to be honest, it surprises me that others do. It just seems...well, like we're working according to the assumption that femmes are driven in making difficult decisions by what's between their legs (who they want between their legs?)....and that, to me, feels pretty icky.

Words

I'm using this couple as an example cause we're in the Femme Zone discussing Femmes, these rules would also apply to Zack and Aaron.


I get and pretty much agree with some of the women who expect their friends to not go after their ex partners after a break up. It's not my cuppa, it's to much like incest for "me".


Example:


Motley and Charlie break up, I've been kickin it with them going on 10 years, Motley is the primary friendship, I gained Chuckles by proxy. If they break up I'm pretty sure any kind of interest of any kind of intimacy is not something I'm going to pursue and vice versa. It's oogy to me to even imagine intimacy with Chuckles cause they're like an in law/family.

It would put drama into my primar relationship(Motley) and truth be told I love her and I'm not willing to risk that kind of love for flirting/sex/curiosity/etc.

If I'm going to flirt with Charlie it's gonna be in front of Mots, she's going to be there aware because we're transparent with eachother. It wouldn't all of a sudden transpire cause she's out of the relationship.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by Random

I have another question to pose?

What if a mate has passed away?

Would you mind if your best girlfriend hooked up with your partner if you passed away?

no, I'm dead, I'm going to mind, like, fuck all. I'm dead.

If you wouldn't mind then, then what is the difference between a live ex and a passed away partner?

because I'm dead. I wouldn't have to watch it.

that's really the only issue - watching something that hurts. And that's why you remove yourself from things you do not want to see or agree to space so neither have to watch. Dead is dead. there ain't no watchin or being botherd about anything anymore!

I told "T" that if she died I would be very greatly upset. her response was "I wouldn't care how upset you'd be! I'd be dead!" then laughed. She had a point. So I told her to shut it.

If someone went off with my wife, who I'm in the process of divorcing, I would highly doubt I would Give A Flying Fuck. I'm completely over emotional romantic attachment to her.

However, if my mate and flatmate went off and screwed "T" the last person I had any real feelings for even though most of them have been based on friendship and she has a gf whom I really like and no commitments were ever made... I'd be ravingly upset. Why? because I still have vague fuzzed feelings for her that I'm never bloody sure of what exactly they are.

I actually *told* my flatmate that because "T" has told me on several occations how hot she thinks my flatmate is and how easy it would be to fall in love with her, how anyone would. My flatmate kindly responded "ffs barb, she might well have thought about it in passing but that she tells you every so often means she's taking the piss and trying to get your knickers in a twist. You get jealous of her getting massaged elsewhere. when she was on the table, she talked about Janessa (her acupressurist) till you went toooooootally quiet than asked in that smart ass tone of voice of hers 'you getting jealous?' She tells you that to get you pissy and laugh and poke you and you love it."

never the less, I let her know I would be extremely upset.

She told me it wouldn't happen.

Personally I wouldn't be surpised. But I would also expect her to tell me if they did. I wouldn't de-friend either of them, I have no right to make those kinds of demands and punishments. But I let her know I would. shit happens in the moment. I was verrrrry high and proud about how I'd never do that kind of thing until "T". I lose my resolve around her at times: I get jealous, I want her attention, I love it when she makes me laugh, and I adore her to bits. I can see me very much making an error if I was pushed quite hard.

Which has been a real slice of humble pie to gobble down.

[Words]

I realized you weren't talking about me June, and I realize that I might have a different perspective on things because I'm kind of isolated as a femme. But even though I have no doubt whatsoever that the kind of behaviour you've referred to in your last post does exist, I still think it would be wise to take into account the fact that there are other factors that should sometimes be considered when judging (for want of a better word) those who don't subscribe to the 'never, never in a million years' way of thinking.

Listen, I am incredibly jealous. I am. So much so that one of the things I've said to Blue is that, were I to die, then even though I'd want Hym to be happy with someone else, I wouldn't want Hym to discuss things that were unique to U/us. The intimate stuff. The stuff that was 'O/ours' and O/ours alone...So say Blue and I were to split up (let's make it an amicable divorce since I can't really imagine O/our breaking up any other way). Would it bother me if some time down the line I found out that a best femme friend of mine and Hy were together (not fucking, but together)? Course it would. But would I feel betrayed? By the friend? By Blue? No. I'd feel sad that it hadn't worked out for U/us. I'd feel jealous that someone else was now taking my place. But, because I love Blue and want Hym to be happy, and because I'm assuming that I'd also love and trust my best femme friend and that she would be capable of making Hym happy, then I would console myself by believing that within T/their new relationship, T/they'd B/both show respect for the memory, if you will, of the relationship that was once Blue and mine's. (Though, I do have to admit, I'd probably move to another county so as to not have to witness their newfound happiness so clearly, this hypothetical situation isn't something I'd actually enjoy. Far from it.)

Naive? Perhaps. Not entirely true? Hard to say since I doubt it will ever happen. But at this point in time, that's the way that I feel.

Words

P.S. Sorry June, posted after you did.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I thought about boy of weather kissing June Daddy on the neck in that kinda way I get kissed and it made me a little sad. I'd have to leave the room or turn off the computer if I got in a but but that was my thing head space. I'd be hurt cause well June's my Daddy/Homie/Family, boy of weather eh, what a douche bag for not having better lines.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by June

And as I said to Martina, I am speaking from a personal place of how I do friendships. I get to do that.

Of course you do. But it's also a forum and I can say "weirdo." :P

cause I actually can't wrap my head around the "femme sistah" thing. Eve I love dearly and gets me to the ends of the earth. she's bi with no ID. I don't grasp the concept of her sexuality or ID having anything to do with the friendship. And she gets me way more than many of my friends who happen to ID as femme.

This could be, though, because I don't live in a community that forces my ID into a place that I feel I should take pride in my ID and therefore my ID and what communities I have around it become very important for feelings of being understood. I think local politics may play a big huge role in that, possible. Cause I don't feel misunderstood as a "femme" where I am. So I don't feel any particular "sistahood" to my femme mates. I mean I'm bloody glad for them, but it's not like they corner any particular form of understanding. Whereas, at home, I know I felt quite differently about that. SO it may be our local community access to acceptance in who we are that influences this.

[imperfect_cupcake]

Originally Posted by June

Shit. I must seem so rigid and fussy to everyone, that it's amazing I have any friends at all.

that cuz you iz like hottttttt and I am willing to put up that that for your hottttness.

[Words]

Originally Posted by June

Shit. I must seem so rigid and fussy to everyone, that it's amazing I have any friends at all.

Not rigid or fussy at all June. I wish I had a femme friend like you that didn't live half way round the planet. Truly.

Words

[The_Lady_Snow]

Someone mentioned in the CIJS thread about Femmes having to release exes, I'm not sure how that assumption was made from the discussion being had. Dating/fucking doesn't peg you in an ex category for me.

-----------------------


I'm going to try to articulate what I know has turned into icky sexist stuff.

I'm bothered that the conversation we're having is now in another thread being discussed as if Femmes are holding EXes hostage and now a release the Ex thread needs to be made.

I'm not sure how this conclusion was made from the posts here hence my frustration and post

[Cowboi]

Originally Posted by June

Shit. I must seem so rigid and fussy to everyone, that it's amazing I have any friends at all.

You know da Cowboi luvs ya!!!!! SssssssHHHhhh I don't want Kat to be jealous.

[Words]

Originally Posted by June

Barb -- I CANNOT wait to be on the same Continent with you again because I am totally going to flirt your socks off.

I think it could be anyone. My best friend here in town, E. We have known each other since High School. She's straight and has been married to J, who I also love deeply. If they get a divorce, I'm not going after J. Ever. Even if he won the lottery and offered me a private island and a full staff. E is TOO important to me to lose.

But June....Why are you assuming that you'd lose E? Perhaps you wouldn't. Perhaps she cares about you as much as you care about her and would trust you enough to know that your reason for going after J was an honorable one? I guess a lot depends on the circumstances, but is it totally beyond the realm of possibility that you wouldn't lose you friend?

[Mike]

i need a spread sheet to keep up!

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by Mike

i need a spread sheet to keep up!

Here's a good example!


Sweet is dead, gone, we no longer get to kick it.. I love Mike, he's not hard to look at, but my juices don't flow.

Not cause he's not dateable but because he's my family.


If mike was Sally's ex and I knew Sally from seeing her at The 616 I'd maybe ask him for a date. I doubt sexy time would happen cause I'd end up kicking it like we do now.


Comparability is a must for more than just knucke bump moments.

[Words]

Originally Posted by June

This is an interesting hypothetical:

If E doesn't want J anymore, there's probably, after all this time a really good reason, so why would I want the same hot mess?

Or

If J left E, then why would I risk him having the same behavior with me?

I think I'm too pragmatic for this.

Ah...But say they broke up by mutual agreement because they'd simply grown apart

Just kidding June. Honest.

[aishah]

When I say "Femme Sister" it is not a blanket term for ALL Femmes. I am referring to someone that I trust implicitly. I also have family of choice who are Butch and male, as well as straight. Not everyone in my orbit is even Gay.

But here, in this space, for this topic, I am speaking of women with whom I have more than a passing relationship with. The ones that know me beyond screen name and understand how I operate, the good and the not so cute.

I think the difference here is that many of us have been able to develop deep, personal and important relationships with other Femmes and some haven't.

If you're not friends with Medusa and she and Jack break up, I can see why it would feel just fine to move in on that.

I'm sure that road could go a number of ways, another Butch goes after Jack, a Femme goes after Medusa. Some errant Bear steals a car from Yellowstone and drives to Arkansas to woo Medusa back to his OR her cave. But here, in the Femme Zone, I'm talking about Femmes, friendship and loyalty.

i don't think the difference is that some of us have best femme friends/chosen family and some of us don't.

i've been family with my best femme friend since fourth grade and would fly across the country to bail her crazy ass out of jail. i've been with my partner for seven years and known him for over half my life.

if he and i had a messy breakup tomorrow and they started dating next week and i knew nothing about it, to me, that would indicate some serious communication issues that needed to be dealt with immediately (on all sides).

if, after three months or six months, we were actually having good communication and sarah talked to me about it first and they wanted to date, i'd be just fine with that. i'd probably warn them both about what they were getting into first with each other :P i'd still care deeply about them both. i'd still fly across the country to help either of them in a heartbeat. if i had some feelings of jealousy, i'd handle them.

i don't feel that that's morally wrong. or disloyal. or against any code of friendship. or "choosing sexytimes over friendship." or any of the other things people have said in this thread. i don't necessarily think that i have to agree with everyone who is a part of my chosen family on that in order for them to be in my chosen family. i don't think there's any sort of unwritten mutual agreement we need to have about it.

if the situation were reversed, i'd do the same thing - i would talk to that person - whether it was someone i'd known for over half my life or someone i met just this year on the planet or an acquaintance. and if i valued their role in my life and they had super strong feelings about it, i would probably choose not to pursue a relationship with their ex unless they became comfortable with it. but i don't assume they'll react one way or another.

[aishah]

Originally Posted by June

Aishah -- I'm fine with whatever floats your boat. Really. I just don't operate like that, and the people I'm close to don't either. And if they started to get real messy and wreak havoc with a lot of peoples lives, we'd be having a come to Jesus.

I don't like messy. And I don't think there's just one person for anyone. I don't think that any of my close friends partners are my potential soul mate that I can't live without. I don't think any of my Butch or Male friends are my potential soul mate that I can't live without.

I don't care what goes on after I'm dead. Even June has to give up control at some point.

amen! especially to the "just one soul mate." and the giving up control. that sort of thinking even -i- think is weird, LOL.

[aishah]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Someone mentioned in the CIJS thread about Femmes having to release exes, I'm not sure how that assumption was made from the discussion being had. Dating/fucking doesn't peg you in an ex category for me.

-----------------------


I'm going to try to articulate what I know has turned into icky sexist stuff.

I'm bothered that the conversation we're having is now in another thread being discussed as if Femmes are holding EXes hostage and now a release the Ex thread needs to be made.

I'm not sure how this conclusion was made from the posts here hence my frustration and post

yuck. i didn't read this thread as a "releasing exes" issue at all. i also wanted to say - even though i've disagreed with a lot of folks, i'm super grateful to anya for starting the discussion and to june and angie and everyone else who's posted. this is one of the most thought-provoking threads i've read in awhile. it did make me really stop and investigate some deep shit in my own self.

and can people not drag shit from thread to thread. please.

[Martina]

I don't see the scenario Aishah outlined as messy. That's me. I have to say that I haven't been involved in something like that since my twenties, when several friends had similar issues. But I wouldn't even associate it with youth and all that could mean.

I also don't even see it as putting romantic relationships above friendships if that is the overarching issue.

The fact is that rules work until they don't. I make decisions based on circumstances.

There were two situations like this among friends when I was in my twenties. In one case, I supported the friend who felt betrayed by her ex and good friend when they hooked up not long after the friend and her partner had broken up.

In the other, I supported the new couple. In that situation, the offended ex had cheated on her partner when they were together. She had not been a good partner. I felt that her ex deserved a shot at happiness and supported him. He is still with that person. Their eldest just went off to college this Fall.

[girl_dee]

Originally Posted by June

Shit. I must seem so rigid and fussy to everyone, that it's amazing I have any friends at all.

Some of us prefer that in a person. Have you met Syr?