only another butch would understand

[evolveme]

Originally Posted by BullDog

Greyson thank you for your post. I am not quite sure where you disagree with me, but we can always further discuss. Having male identified people in a community introduces male privilege on many different levels. It isn't just about what privilege people may or may not receive out in the world at large, it is the effect that is has within a community itself as well. Things are different because there are male identified people within butch femme communities. Female/women identified butches have to fight like hell to be seen or heard, male defaults get used for butch- all of which is ridiculous since most butches do identify as female. The reason we have to fight like hell is because butch gets equated to male and male is more valued.

Bulldog, I recognize that my voice may not be welcome in this thread, and that certainly, there is nothing that I, not being a butch person, can solely understand. But I am hearing what sounds like some older Second Wave feminisms being utilized to dislodge a, perhaps, mythic misogyny in an on-line community.

Don't misread me. I hear you when you say that male has too often been a default for butch in these spaces. I believe that has more often been the fault/responsibility of the butches who actually identified as female and their partners. A need was felt to differentiate between the pairs. It helped to show who was masculine and who was feminine. Everyone enjoyed it. It got carried away. As the space became more accepting of transpeople and transgendered folks, the lines became blurred, and female identified butches appeared to have been swept under the tide. The gender wars seemed to have arrived. (I believe it's up to everyone to put those wars behind us. It was no one person's fault.)

But, Bulldog, it seems that (by your posts) you might be failing to recognize what a male identified person's actual, REAL time experience is like. Even a transman's. For someone who is female bodied but male id'd, please show me the privilege? Who, except his partner and close friends are even showing him understanding? And for the transman, what of the incredible hurdle of transphobia and bullshit he had to face to get to where he is now?

And can we really experience gender privilege in an online space? Given the total lack of acceptance these folks are facing in the day to day, it seems like another voice saying: You're just a guest here, you know. Watch your "male privilege."