"Butch" and "Femme" - Truly Antiquated Terms or More Marginalization?

Medusa · 11-23-2009, 11:01 AM

Mad love!

Im curious as to what you think here, Selly. Do you see the disappearance (relevance) of the terminology "Butch" and "Femme", or is it more a disappearance of the culture?

Is it an access issue? An exposure issue? Is it that younger folks are trying to carve out something that feels better to them?

Im 33 myself. When I first came out I remember having a "culture shock" within the context of B/F because I had been exposed to Lesbians who totally dismissed what they viewed as rigid adherence to gender conformity and hegemonic idealism...and here I was suddenly immersed and surrounded with folks who embraced the dynamic.
I will also admit to feeling a little turned off at first with what I felt like was a lot of posturing to be the "most" Femme or the "most" Butch. A distinct hierarchy, if you will.

I also fully recognize that my "Femme" definitely isnt the same as it was 13 years ago. She is looking a lot less like Betty Crocker and a lot more like a cross between the Bride of Chuckie and my (favorite) archetype "Medusa" (hence the screen name).

Didnt mean to hijack here and turn it inward, but Selly has me thinking. (thats never a bad thing)

Apocalipstic · 11-23-2009, 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medusa

Mad love!

Im curious as to what you think here, Selly. Do you see the disappearance (relevance) of the terminology "Butch" and "Femme", or is it more a disappearance of the culture?

Is it an access issue? An exposure issue? Is it that younger folks are trying to carve out something that feels better to them?

Im 33 myself. When I first came out I remember having a "culture shock" within the context of B/F because I had been exposed to Lesbians who totally dismissed what they viewed as rigid adherence to gender conformity and hegemonic idealism...and here I was suddenly immersed and surrounded with folks who embraced the dynamic.
I will also admit to feeling a little turned off at first with what I felt like was a lot of posturing to be the "most" Femme or the "most" Butch. A distinct hierarchy, if you will.

I also fully recognize that my "Femme" definitely isnt the same as it was 13 years ago. She is looking a lot less like Betty Crocker and a lot more like a cross between the Bride of Chuckie and my (favorite) archetype "Medusa" (hence the screen name).

Didnt mean to hijack here and turn it inward, but Selly has me thinking. (thats never a bad thing)

Great post!

Cynthia says when I am mad I am Chuckie.

SassyLeo · 11-23-2009, 11:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SassyLeo

Is part of the reason that the younger generation does not identify with these terms because they don't have someone to lead the way for them, specifically (as in a close elder friend)? Or because as a society we are delving deeper into what gender/gender identity looks like? Or really because of the general evolution of human/sexuality/identities?

These are just thoughts for the moment... forgive the rawness...

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaC

The only 'real time' community off the internet where there is an abundance of butches and femmes that I've ever participated in is in San Francisco. Who do we have to thank for that? Community organizers. (nodding in Toughy's direction)... I know there's a lot happening in NY as well. How? oh yeah... *community organizers*

But apart from pockets of online communities and some real time community organizers in large urban areas, is "Butch" and "Femme" known or used terms? Frankly folks, I don't think I've *ever* lived (and lived as queer) where Butch and Femme were actually "popular" terms.

They are however, I believe: timeless

Quote:

Originally Posted by Medusa

Mad love!

Im curious as to what you think here, Selly. Do you see the disappearance (relevance) of the terminology "Butch" and "Femme", or is it more a disappearance of the culture?

Is it an access issue? An exposure issue? Is it that younger folks are trying to carve out something that feels better to them?

Didnt mean to hijack here and turn it inward, but Selly has me thinking. (thats never a bad thing)

I think we are all kind of talking about the same thing... and I really dig the discussion (do people still say "dig"? :>). I also love hearing from the younger folks (ok sometimes that feels weird to say because I still think of myself as young...) yes, Selly...you, please talk more!!! I am learning still, everyday, and while I feel somewhat sad that maybe the terms butch and femme are less used and maybe even considered outdated by some, I am encouraged by the progression we have made in terms of acceptance in the queer culture to include so much fluidity.

BullDog · 11-23-2009, 11:37 AM

I am no expert on how the younger generation are iding, but I see a lot of truth in what ToppDyke says. Genderqueer seems to dominate a lot of online stuff that I see, and certainly it's a term that a lot of people resonate with- which is totally cool. But there are whole other worlds out there, whole other communities out there-both online and real time- Stud and Butch identities- as an example- that are quite a bit removed from what dominates the airwaves on the major Butch Femme sites.

Just this morning I was doing some searches on Studs, because the voices of some of the younger Studs that I read and listen to in videos really do resonate with me even though I am a 47 year old white butch. There are some really great voices out there- very savvy, very aware, who incorporate masculinity within a woman-centric, community based framework- at least that is my take on it. I am loving what I am finding. Not seeing much of it at butch femme sites.

11-23-2009, 11:01 AM	#1
Medusa Mentally Delicious How Do You Identify?: Queer High Femme, thank you very much Preferred Pronoun?: Mme. Relationship Status: Married to JD. Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: Atlanta Posts: 10,446 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 5,995 Thanked 42,683 Times in 7,831 Posts Rep Power: 10000026	Mad love! Im curious as to what you think here, Selly. Do you see the disappearance (relevance) of the terminology "Butch" and "Femme", or is it more a disappearance of the culture? Is it an access issue? An exposure issue? Is it that younger folks are trying to carve out something that feels better to them? Im 33 myself. When I first came out I remember having a "culture shock" within the context of B/F because I had been exposed to Lesbians who totally dismissed what they viewed as rigid adherence to gender conformity and hegemonic idealism...and here I was suddenly immersed and surrounded with folks who embraced the dynamic. I will also admit to feeling a little turned off at first with what I felt like was a lot of posturing to be the "most" Femme or the "most" Butch. A distinct hierarchy, if you will. I also fully recognize that my "Femme" definitely isnt the same as it was 13 years ago. She is looking a lot less like Betty Crocker and a lot more like a cross between the Bride of Chuckie and my (favorite) archetype "Medusa" (hence the screen name). Didnt mean to hijack here and turn it inward, but Selly has me thinking. (thats never a bad thing)

11-23-2009, 11:37 AM	#4
BullDog Infamous Member How Do You Identify?: Dominant Stone Butch Daddy Preferred Pronoun?: She Join Date: Nov 2009 Location: In A Healing Place Posts: 5,371 My Photo Gallery Thanks: 18,160 Thanked 22,640 Times in 4,463 Posts Rep Power: 21474857	I am no expert on how the younger generation are iding, but I see a lot of truth in what ToppDyke says. Genderqueer seems to dominate a lot of online stuff that I see, and certainly it's a term that a lot of people resonate with- which is totally cool. But there are whole other worlds out there, whole other communities out there-both online and real time- Stud and Butch identities- as an example- that are quite a bit removed from what dominates the airwaves on the major Butch Femme sites. Just this morning I was doing some searches on Studs, because the voices of some of the younger Studs that I read and listen to in videos really do resonate with me even though I am a 47 year old white butch. There are some really great voices out there- very savvy, very aware, who incorporate masculinity within a woman-centric, community based framework- at least that is my take on it. I am loving what I am finding. Not seeing much of it at butch femme sites.