What attracts you to Ftms ......

[BullDog]

I personally am not the slightest bit surprised that a queer femme would have a preference for someone associated with her queer community (which wouldn't be the same as the gay male community that a bisexual man would tend to be a part of).

[Sachita]

basically what Diva and Softness said about 2 spirit only it's more like a third sex thing for me. I'm attracted to masculine energy. This can be ftm, trans, butch... doesnt matter to me how they ID, if I feel it I know it and its all about chemistry. To be honest I've dated a few people that were like this, 3rd sex, very masculine but didn't consider themselves anything and I really like this.
I would be attracted to a transguy as long as he didnt emulate a biomale. It would be way too hard for me to explain this but if you're there you know what I mean.

But the bottom line is I don't care. If we connect we connect.

[Toughy]

Linus took this post to the other thread. It actually belongs in here, although probably has a place in the new thread.


'Two Spirit' is about Native Americans.........ya know........those pesky folks who lived on this land prior to white people invading..........

I kinda wish all these white folks would stop stealing cultural terms from Native Americans. Two spirit is not for white folks to use anytime they want. Try learning before you appropriate terms from other cultures. Two spirit literally means 'having both a masculine spirit and a feminine spirit'.

I don't personally know any white FtMs/transmen who claim they have a feminine spirit. They only claim a male spirit.

Do some research folks.........

[Diva]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Linus took this post to the other thread. It actually belongs in here, although probably has a place in the new thread.


'Two Spirit' is about Native Americans.........ya know........those pesky folks who lived on this land prior to white people invading..........

I kinda wish all these white folks would stop stealing cultural terms from Native Americans. Two spirit is not for white folks to use anytime they want. Try learning before you appropriate terms from other cultures. Two spirit literally means 'having both a masculine spirit and a feminine spirit'.

I don't personally know any white FtMs/transmen who claim they have a feminine spirit. They only claim a male spirit.

Do some research folks.........

I'm not sure I should even address this, however, the reason I used the term "two~spirited" was because I had been told by a Transman that He is two~spirited person. And, while He does have a portion of American Indian blood coursing through His veins, He also has Italian, Filipino and Hispanic bloodlines.

So....while what I have experienced with this one Guy is Male, He claims His second spirit as well, and I accept that.

[chefhmboyrd]

can someone please explain to me WTF Cis means?
Mommie said that it is being the gender you were born/appear to be
uh...... WHAT?

so....
a Cis Man is a bio man?
and a Cis Woman is a bio woman?

really?
am i getting this right?

HELP!!!!

[Soft*Silver]

I am not a native american. And I despise when capitalism eats up the Native Culture and only nourishes the whites. I fear for the individuals from both the Native Culture and the White Culture when they are insensitive to one another. I am appalled and saddened by how whites have desecrated and destroyed the land that they literally stole from the Native Americans.

In saying this (and yes it is all heart felt) I am also saddened when a member of the white culture tries to honor the traditions and spirituality of the Native Culture and gets slammed for not getting it "right". The reaction given to usage of the term "two spirited" is more racist and prejudicial than the intent behind the post about two spirits.

I have spent my lifetime trying to be as sensitive as possible to people and living things around me. But it has to work both ways if its really going to work and leave a positive imprint. Sensitivity has to be given when genuine efforts are made and failed. In either direction.

When its not given, and veiled (or unveiled) hostility is grouched out, it only serves to make the other defensive. And worse, any who witness it, also learn that any attempts that fail, will result in being attacked, so why bother to try?

I myself loath when white females write books about native culture and spirituality and make thousands of dollars off it and give nothing to the culture they took it from. I refuse to buy the books. And I have brought my daughter up to see this as wrong, as well. And she has taught others to see this. And they have taught others...it is the web of communication, tightened by the spirituality of people who regardless of what they call it, are honoring the spirituality of others.


tones in posts can put a stop to any learning..

as for two spirited folks, I actually would like to know more about it now that its been brought up that my understanding of it might be whitened and not be correct at all. So I am going to do my research..not because I was shamed or scolded into it, but because I can read the value of the post, regardless of the tone that was used.

and I believe some FtM people might indeed see themselves as two spirited. But I will let others speak on that regard...

[Liam]

Originally Posted by chefhmboyrd

can someone please explain to me WTF Cis means?
Mommie said that it is being the gender you were born/appear to be
uh...... WHAT?

so....
a Cis Man is a bio man?
and a Cis Woman is a bio woman?

really?
am i getting this right?

HELP!!!!

This link was posted in another thread, you might find it illuminating:

http://juliaserano.livejournal.com/14700.html

[Leigh]

I do understand that a good many FTM's only view themselves as having a male spirit, Myself included, but what I don't get is why can't an FTM view himself as being two-spirited? Who says that a transguy can't also have even just a small big of a female spirit inside of him?

I don't get that

[Spirit Dancer]

Originally Posted by Diva

I'm not sure I should even address this, however, the reason I used the term "two~spirited" was because I had been told by a Transman that He is two~spirited person. And, while He does have a portion of American Indian blood coursing through His veins, He also has Italian, Filipino and Hispanic bloodlines.

So....while what I have experienced with this one Guy is Male, He claims His second spirit as well, and I accept that.

As a native american woman and a two spirited person, I just wanted to share this with you all.

A direct translation of the Ojibwe term, Niizh manidoowag, "two-spirited" or "two-spirit" is usually used to indicate a person whose body simultaneously houses a masculine spirit and a feminine spirit.
We are proud to be two spirited and I honour both my female and male spirit and energy.

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by Spirit Dancer

As a native american woman and a two spirited person, I just wanted to share this with you all.

A direct translation of the Ojibwe term, Niizh manidoowag, "two-spirited" or "two-spirit" is usually used to indicate a person whose body simultaneously houses a masculine spirit and a feminine spirit.
We are proud to be two spirited and I honour both my female and male spirit and energy.

This is exactly right and although expressed in many words and cultures we all should strive for this balance on a microcosmic level. How we physically manifest and experience this here and now is our identity for this life time.

IMO there are two spirit 3rd sex people that present an androgynous form and spirit. It seems that, from what I have personally encounter, they are often thought of as transgendered and even thought that would mean "in transition" they clearly are happy where they are and often accept being called "trans". I'm not saying this is right or wrong and obviously everyone has a preference. I don't think its for any of us to judge or try and define. As with anything in life the rules often change to meet needs. We should try and be more flexible, especially when it comes to words.

Most of my life I've dated very masculine butches and those that considered themselves "third sex" their words not mine. I enjoyed and connected with them because I could sense and feel both male and female. When I decided to take it a step further and enter into the FTM world I realized it probably wasn't for me. If he wanted to live as a man yet balanced his masculine and feminine energy rather then get angry and deny I might be more receptive but thus far I have not experienced it.

[weatherboi]

Originally Posted by Sachita

Most of my life I've dated very masculine butches and those that considered themselves "third sex" their words not mine. I enjoyed and connected with them because I could sense and feel both male and female. When I decided to take it a step further and enter into the FTM world I realized it probably wasn't for me. If he wanted to live as a man yet balanced his masculine and feminine energy rather then get angry and deny I might be more receptive but thus far I have not experienced it.

maybe the guy got angry when you spoke with him about this because you were trying to get him to be who you wanted. maybe he was angry because you had an expectation that was not disclosed to him in the beginning of the rship. maybe you didnt give him a safe space. i don't know. my transition has been private and i like it that way. i still find it hard to talk about certain things about how i feel at a certain time of the month. my monthly reminder that my female body does not match my male mind. my therapy and support group talks about all that. the last thing i wanna deal with is my beloved having an expectation that i am male/female balanced. IMO i am weary of you because of your postings as of late. they could be taken as anti male and then i read this post and feel it is confirmed for me. soooo i am reading this as another post with an underlying transphobic message. the thread is what attracts you to ftms not what doesnt attract you to ftms. so why post something in here negative?? i don't get it??

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Diva

I'm not sure I should even address this, however, the reason I used the term "two~spirited" was because I had been told by a Transman that He is two~spirited person. And, while He does have a portion of American Indian blood coursing through His veins, He also has Italian, Filipino and Hispanic bloodlines.

So....while what I have experienced with this one Guy is Male, He claims His second spirit as well, and I accept that.

I totally get what you are saying here. My point is/was that unless he identifies as Native American, he is appropriating a Native concept.

I could call myself two-spirit.....it really does fit me.....however it would be appropriation..........even though I was actively involved in BAAITS at one time. I may have some Cherokee blood through my mother's mother's mother's mother, however that does not make me Native American.

[Soft*Silver]

I sit here drinking my morning (afternoon) coffee and am reading this thread.
A few things come to mind that I will share...

TO transition does not mean a simple nip and tuck here and there and wallahhh....someone is the gender they want to be.

One, they already ARE the gender they want to be. The transformation just aligns them up correctly.

Two, transition involve physical, mental, and spiritual alignments. Physical is just one part of it.

Three, anothe huge part of it is social. While the FtM is transitioning, they also must deal with the societal perceptions, which include family and loved ones. And also included members of their affiliations, including this forum.

Four, while they are transitioning, they will bump into people who are evolving. Some more evolved than others. Some evolved in many areas but not in this area.

Five, When words are offered,they will be read in exactly the level of evolution the reader is in, and will also be presented in exactly the level of evolution the writer is in.

Six, these two might not always match up

Seven, when this happens it might feel like a confrontation. Actually, its a unique opportunity to learn. And they will learn regardless of how it is handled.

Eight, what they learn will depend on how sensitively each will handle the other with

Nine, this is a necessary part of transitioning and evolving

Ten, we can all learn from one another. And support one another, with kindness or with flames...both indicate a deep investment in this process


I have learned quite a bit in this thread and I thank all the people who have contributed. I support all of you...wherever you are in your transitioning and evolvement. You have added to my evolution. I come to these sights so that I can connect with my community. And in doing so, I have had to learn to be more sensitive, be more understanding, shut my mouth more often than I was used to, and speak from my place and no one elses.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Linus took this post to the other thread. It actually belongs in here, although probably has a place in the new thread.


'Two Spirit' is about Native Americans.........ya know........those pesky folks who lived on this land prior to white people invading..........

I kinda wish all these white folks would stop stealing cultural terms from Native Americans. Two spirit is not for white folks to use anytime they want. Try learning before you appropriate terms from other cultures. Two spirit literally means 'having both a masculine spirit and a feminine spirit'.

I don't personally know any white FtMs/transmen who claim they have a feminine spirit. They only claim a male spirit.

Do some research folks.........

This was my post....it's post #49. Diva responded to it a bit later on.....post #75. Diva's original post that caused my post was before #49.

And yes........my response was about cultural appropriation.

here is a link for a local two-spirit group http://www.baaits.org/

other two spirit info can be found here:
http://www.nativeout.com/

[SuperFemme]

I am attracted to human beings.
I am also attracted to the brains of human beings.
If you cannot get my brain to third base you are not going
to get my body to first base.

So I guess I cannot properly answer the original question because it is too limiting. Sorry.

[Kenna]

Originally Posted by adorable

*snip snip*

Imagine if I were to write what I wanted - HA! O-M-G. Exactly ONE person would understand it. I know that for a fact because most people don't even understand pieces of it. But it's my thing. MY thing. Judging other people's kinks, or preferences, or a certain look, or a way of life...is tough to do when it's not your thing. So is explaining why we want what we want. It's like trying to explain why we love apple pie to someone that hates it. We love it because it tastes good. They hate it because it tastes bad. Who is right? Well of course, we are because who the hell doesn't love apple pie? Weirdo's.
*snip snip*

Yep yep!! That's it!! They taste good!! For those that don't like my kinda apple pie, I'll make them a cherry pie or cheesecake. But..ummmmm...yummy! Pass the whipped topping and ice cream!

I'm not sure why I'm attracted to a particular person... or what attracts me to them. I don't have a list of expectations of physical markers or appearances to check off when I first meet someone. I don't find myself attracted to a "general" population of individuals or a multitude of specific gendered persons... it is about the individual for me. With each individual that has made my heart flutter (which has been VERY few)... it's always something different that attracted me. But reflecting upon the individuals that have certainly caught my attention... some of the common factors have been masculinity; common likes & dislikes; a definite, mutual, strong chemistry; mechanically inclined and they don't put me down for also loving all things mechanical; intelligent (and not afraid to be cocky or a smartass sometimes); strength (inner and physical); a very witty, fun personality; (a few other traits I could bore you with); and for some strange reason, dark hair, dark eyes and sun-kissed warm skin from working outside. I am NOT attracted to the "bad boy" type; but do get flutters when someone I'm attracted to likes motorcycles, large trucks and other heavy machinery (this goes along with my love of all things mechanical - especially things with large, loud engines -"MORE POWER BABY!")

What attracts me to someone who is TG or FtM? Ummmm maybe it's the way my heart skipped a beat when he stepped down out of his truck, all HAWT in his sunglasses, new jeans and dark hair just cropped short? YOWZA!! That look of confidence just made my heart flutter!! I took a double take that day! Yeah... and I got a picture of that truck too!!

What attracted me to my first crush/first B/F relationship years ago with someone who IDs as Soft Butch and has very strong masculine energy/traits? How she looked in her biker leathers...on the back of her Harley! or decked out for work in her oxford long sleeve shirt, jeans and work boots. Ummm, and her dark, wavy hair and sexy sunglasses. Damn! come to think of it... I NEVER did get a ride on that Harley!! But the sight of her very masculine "tough" self made me melt. She now has a crush on my sister!! LOL

Maybe I was attracted to a certain individual when they were so thoughtful when they handed me my favorite ice cream during a stressful moment?

I found them each attractive in their own unique, personal, individual, special way. Especially their personalities and their inner strength....their physical strength was an added bonus.

After I broke it off with my old crush... I used to think I couldn't be attracted to someone that wasn't Soft Butch. I've changed, and so have my personal attractions... but I still LOVE apple pie!!

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I am attracted to human beings.
I am also attracted to the brains of human beings.
If you cannot get my brain to third base you are not going
to get my body to first base.

So I guess I cannot properly answer the original question because it is too limiting. Sorry.

Thank you very much for this, SuperFemme. Very well stated and I agree completely with the highlighted section. For me, it wasn't as limiting as the stress of possibly upsetting someone with my response. I didn't want to respond with generalizations. I knew that would trigger some folks. I have found myself attracted to FtM, TG, and Soft Butch individuals. I have considered dating Stone Butch individuals. But they MUST get my brain to third base...and must be on common ground with me, before moving my body anywhere near first base.

[apretty]

some of these posts have a tone of female self-subjugation.

[betenoire]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I personally am not the slightest bit surprised that a queer femme would have a preference for someone associated with her queer community (which wouldn't be the same as the gay male community that a bisexual man would tend to be a part of).

So gay and bisexual men are not queer? Is queerness something that is exclusive to those born female? Cuz I didn't get that memo. Some of the queerest people I know are men.

Originally Posted by apretty

outside of fetish, how would someone base their attraction on "being formerly" anything?

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by TenderKnight

You know.. I'm so not going to be a smartass here.. but I will say this.. No one does laundry better then a femme that is bare foot and in the kitchen.. and preggers with our love chile..

But really.. I know a transguy that can fluff and fold like nobody's business!

-Tony, who is totally being a smart ass.. Not all femmes can do laundry the way I like it..

oh no not so! I had this sweet little submissive ftm that came to take care of me a few times. HE did the best laundry ever and looked pretty damn good bare foot, in the kitchen cooking and cleaning. I use to call him my fag because he was as nelly as they come. I'd love to find another one but maybe a little older and has his head more together.