Trans people talking to other trans people

[DapperButch]

I thought it would be nice to have a place where trans people engage with each other, perhaps in a similar way to the butch to butch and femme to femme threads.

I see this as a space for anyone who identifies as transgender in some way. It isn't unusual for some of us to identify as both butch and trans, for example. However, I would like this to be a spot where we focus on the trans part of our gender identity.

There is already a trans guy to trans guy thread, but there is not a discussion thread for everyone who identifies as trans.

I see this as a space where we can shoot the shit, ask each other questions related to transition, talk about stigma, transphobia, relationship issues, etc. Anything trans related that you don't want to start a whole thread about.

Have at it!

[Esme nha Maire]

Hi Dapper!

One of the things I'm curious about is the extent to which atypical upbringing early on for our correct gender (the one we identify with) affects us later in life. And also to what extent individual transfolk either feel they have to confom to some kind of stereotype post-transition or alternatively, feel they have the freedom to ignore it. I'm particularly curious as to how the guys feel on this.

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

Hi Dapper!

One of the things I'm curious about is the extent to which atypical upbringing early on for our correct gender (the one we identify with) affects us later in life. And also to what extent individual transfolk either feel they have to confom to some kind of stereotype post-transition or alternatively, feel they have the freedom to ignore it. I'm particularly curious as to how the guys feel on this.

Thanks for getting things rolling in the thread! Yay!

Could you please say the bolded part in a different way? I am not quite clear on what you your meaning is here. I wasn't related to as my correct gender (male), so this is why I am confused.

I don't have time to get into the second part yet, as I need to get to work. But, I will for certain come back to this.

[Esme nha Maire]

Sure, Dapper! Has the fact that you were raised as a girl had lasting effects into later life? In my case, I was raised as a boy. I actually liked that I got to play with boys toys as a result, but I desperately wished that I could be taught the girly stuff around hair and appearance, and cooking and stuff. So once I was seen by society as a woman, there were things that I was unusually inept at, or lacking in knowledge of, compared to 'average' women. And my manners, when it comes to courtesies, were somehow slightly 'off', because I'd had so many years of extending courtesies to women, and it don't occur to me at first that maybe I should stop doing that. It only took me a couple of weeks to get used to having those same courtesies extended to me, and I did end up ramping down my tendency to hold doors for other women, etc. till I arrived at a situation where my unconscious behaviour doesn't cause untoward comment and I'm still perceived as polite. But hair stuff? I'm still clueless.

[Dean Thoreau]

Ok my T was increased yesterday.
Spent the weekend with my gf, and since it had been quite a while we spent most of 4 days in bed...
Now I don’t know if it’s the combination a weekend of lovin and the T ; just the T ; or just my lady but.
If this isn’t the T I’m gonna due when it kicks in
If it’s the T damn why didn’t I do this 20 yes ago.
If it’s a combo... wow wow wow.. sure wish she were gonna be here this weekend cause jumping in a freezer isn’t doin a thing and I can’t go to gym yet.. due to ops and staples.
Gf can’t even say hello on the phone to me without me.... responding.....damn just writing abt it is.......

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

Ok my T was increased yesterday.
Spent the weekend with my gf, and since it had been quite a while we spent most of 4 days in bed...
Now I don’t know if it’s the combination a weekend of lovin and the T ; just the T ; or just my lady but.
If this isn’t the T I’m gonna due when it kicks in
If it’s the T damn why didn’t I do this 20 yes ago.
If it’s a combo... wow wow wow.. sure wish she were gonna be here this weekend cause jumping in a freezer isn’t doin a thing and I can’t go to gym yet.. due to ops and staples.
Gf can’t even say hello on the phone to me without me.... responding.....damn just writing abt it is.......

Yep, it is the T. It will drive you nuts...you will feel amorous all the time...your girlfriend will get sick of you. I completely understand how teenage boys feel.....

And as I recall you are on a low dose. I read you saying that you increased it, but what is your dose?

Some say it levels off after a year, but that isn't my experience. It is uncomfortable. It is annoying. I had NO idea that's how it could be. From someone who had a low sex drive, it was shocking.

Obviously, it will be a bit higher if you are in that "new relationship, pheremones are driving everything" state, but it is rough, nonetheless.

[Esme nha Maire]

Not that it's any consolation, Dean, but us women often get the reverse effect, of a lowering of libido once our hormone levels are more female-typical. I certainly did, and felt that to be a blessing! Getting pulled hither and yon by ones endocrine system was horrid! Some become quite disinterested. It hasn't made me disinterested in sex, it's just that sex became the icing on the cake for me rather than the body of the cake, as it were, which better fitted with how I consciously felt about such things. Sex is nice, but cuddles are vital! (chuckle)

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Esme nha Maire

Not that it's any consolation, Dean, but us women often get the reverse effect, of a lowering of libido once our hormone levels are more female-typical. I certainly did, and felt that to be a blessing! Getting pulled hither and yon by ones endocrine system was horrid! (chuckle)

Yep. I haven't met a single trans woman in my practice who didn't say they were pleased about this!

Besides no longer having that sense of being "controlled" by one's libido, for some of them it was that they weren't reminded on a regular basis, that they had a penis.

One of the most interesting things to me about taking testosterone is finding out that many of the things that we assume to be socialization is just biological. This is one of them. We say "men think with their dicks". Although that particular statement refers to men making poor, selfish, damaging, or dangerous choices, it is true that a super high libido does impact, interfere even, with our focus on things. The purpose of men having such a high libido is to ensure that we continue to populate. But, it can be super frustrating.

Another example is that we say that men don't cry because they are socialized not to. I have repeated this over and over again, myself. Well, guess what? I don't have a need to cry...like ever.
THAT is a blessing. So although it is true that boys may be shamed for crying, there is certainly a hormonal component to our tears/emotions.

Sex hormones are so fascinating to me.

ETA: Dean, I made the comment that it didn't reduce for me. I will say that I have gotten a bit better at shifting and focusing on other things, but at first it was very hard. Like I said, it is truly uncomfortable sometimes when one can't relieve themselves. My drive hasn't decreased though.

[Dean Thoreau]

Ohhhhhh, thanks for all the information. I think I shall be seeking physical outlets as soon as I heal from surgery ( I am developing the understanding of teenaged boys, no wonder they were ... )
I think I am lucky right now, only getting perpetually aroused when I hear the gf’s voice... feeling like Charlie Brown and Lucy with the football.

So not to sound stupid here guys, but that electrical charge that hits then the lingering desire if not fulfilled . I now understand why guys grab themselves and (adjust so frequently) tho that seems to not work very well. After this raise to 75 per week it seems to be at a real strong desire about 12 hours and lasts for abt 48 hrs and now is there but shall I say manageable... can’t wait for Sunday when things are at the low.
Oh yeah news I dropped 36 pounds since surgery, so I am 1/3 of the way to my goal; and it’s strange I am being referred to as a female more now than b4surgery. My gf says it’s the tell tale mannerisms,,, so I am relearning how to develop more confidence and be less self conscious . I will confess I am avoiding wash rooms that are not all gender.

[Esme nha Maire]

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

... and it’s strange I am being referred to as a female more now than b4surgery. My gf says it’s the tell tale mannerisms,,, so I am relearning how to develop more confidence and be less self conscious . I will confess I am avoiding wash rooms that are not all gender.

I suspect it won't take you too long to adjust your mannerisms, Dean. And it's absolutely the right idea to try to be less self conscious. One can't help but be a little self-conscious after a big change of this nature, but the thing to do is "own" the change; it's just you becoming the proper you, rather than continuing to present as something you were not against your own instincts, and if the world doesn't like it, then the world can go take a long walk off a short pier. All the best, Dean! xx

[Dean Thoreau]

I have been slowly building up to an identity change on Facebook. Yesterday, I finally said wtf and did it. Figured I would get it all out of the way at once. First 3 responses were positive...so I guess I am on a roll. The ones who blocked me for my political beliefs are prolly the same ones that wouldn’t want to hear this.

I don’t know but at this stage I really don’t care, I look at myself in the mirror and I am proud of who I see.
My immediate family..mother and brother we r estranged, they will hear by the Facebook grapevine.

My real real immediate fam, my kids and gf....they already know and that is all that matters. I didn’t say TG I just changed my name, and said..yes changes have happened, don’t bother to ask, cause I will not be answering.....
I did that because I don’t want to become their token TG, and answer stupid questions,,,or listen to stupid comments. And a bunch of my far extended fam is stuck in the 50’s andopt for ignorance as their education, I just can not tolerate the crap.
So I figured I would put out the name change and let them wonder, they know me well enough when I. Say don’t ask they don’t...I am the older cuz, at on time the matriarch but now no longer, just another guy on the guy side of the family tree.

That’s the weird part.... I’m a white male...... I’m no a woman vet, I’m a vet, I’m no longer a minority I have just ended up in the straight white male category of life.....is this why I try to hang on to the TG\FTM category, so I don’t have to deal with that SWM designation, and can still not think of myself as one?

[DapperButch]

Originally Posted by Dean Thoreau

That’s the weird part.... I’m a white male...... I’m no a woman vet, I’m a vet, I’m no longer a minority I have just ended up in the straight white male category of life.....is this why I try to hang on to the TG\FTM category, so I don’t have to deal with that SWM designation, and can still not think of myself as one?

I think that for some white trans men (which I am defining here as white female identified at birth individuals, who are on testosterone and are living full time as male), our queer identities are important to us, so we hang onto the transgender / FTM identity.

I think that white trans men (whether older or younger), who were never a part of the lesbian/queer/Butch-Femme community have an easier time, and are more eager, to accept the straight male label, as this is most likely how they have always identified, they had just not had the opportunity to transition yet.

Also, some of us, especially those who have been a part of the lesbian and/or queer community (in my opinion), look at straight, white males with a lens that is...well, pretty much, of distaste. Or at least I always have, and continue to in some ways, due to the shit white, straight/closeted males in America have done to all minority groups (of every shape and form). So, we struggle with aligning ourselves with this group.

However, it could also be as simple as you not feeling comfortable with the SWM moniker because you have literally JUST started to transition. So, you have not only not had time to "try on" that identity, but that identity has not yet been reflected back to you by the public. (I am assuming here that you are not gendered as male 100% of the time). After that starts happening, you might identify more with the SWM moniker. It may just be a transition from one to the other (no pun intended).

[Kätzchen]

I hope it's okay to leave this in your forum thread Dapper! Thanks for all you do for the Trans community, here.

[Esme nha Maire]

Wow. Thanks for sharing how things are going with you as you've gone through your changes, Dean. It's been educational for me to hear of the things that are different for you guys than for us women. And y'know what? I hadn't considered for a moment that guys like you and Dapper might feel some unease at claiming the identity that better fits you (as against just BEING it). That's got to be tough.

However, not all cisgender guys are unpleasant types, there are good guys as well as bad guys, as with all sizable groups of folk. And you align with the good guys? That's great! More power to your elbow! You're tipping the balance in favour of the good, you've just increased the chances that the next interaction some woman has with a guy is going to be a positive one by a tiny fraction. This is A Good Thing. Keep up the good work!

[Dean Thoreau]

I love this section of the forum. Such affirming comments and bluntly I come here and just read from time to time; makes me feel better.

Ok so I am now up to 100 mg of T every week, on the 30th I get blood work and as long as that looks good will increase to 150 on June 12. My bp is lower than it has ever been,, except for a major amount of sexual desire... no bad side effects...with the exception of developing the male stupidity as my gf calls it. I keep saying I thought I already had that and she laughs and says see I’m right.

[Dean Thoreau]

What a wild ride June was.
Ok I was at 100 T weekly... after a few weeks at that my body went wild. I’ve heard of sex drive but it got insane, finally one weekend and not sleeping for three days and a sex drive that could not be satisfied or calmed down and a rage that was beyond anything I have ever experienced; I sent my endocrinologist an email saying Help! I explained every outrageous thing I had done; many things that I was shocked I had participated in.
The doc said take a break from T, and bluntly monitored me daily, checking in, and even discussed hospital admission because everything was so insane. So for 10 days no T, from the last orewacko dose. I had blood work done on the 29th and on Friday got to see the results: total t was 426.6 ... normal range is 7-40. A bit high
Free t was 9.9. When norm is 0 to 4.
Well at least it was the T not just insanity.
Not sure what caused the T to go so high but
I am now back on with a low 25 dose, and will take things even slower this time on the way up. Truth be told I don’t ever want to go through that again. Doc said the behavior and etc were due to the T. The doc even volunteered to speak with the gf so she would understand that the T in my system had taken over. Suffice to say after the weeks of this and normal stresses the gf and I are no longer seeing each other.
Personally I was wanting to break up with myself. That person I did not recognize, and bluntly would prefer to never see again.
Post script here, in 8 days my t went from 244 to 426 and the dose never changed...so what caused the jump is under debate, and I swear I did not increase a dose on my own.
So that’s been my world and my mistress T, hopefully with the restart things will go more smoothly; one thing I have seen loud and clear is how every part of this transition affects a lot more people than me.
Now I just need to cancel a bunch of memberships to numerous web sites and a few clubs in a city nearby. I doubt I will be looking for that a second time.

[Esme nha Maire]

Blimey Dean! I thought the moods I went through whilst they were finding the right dosage of oestrogen for me were bad, but they were nothing compared to what you've described! I'm so sorry to hear of what happened to you, and your not seeing your gf anymore :-(

I had a short patch of a week or so during the months in which my HRT dosage was being slowly raised where I got irritable at the clank of a falling molecule, and, weirdly, I experienced a greatly enhanced locational sense, my 3D spatial awareness was MUCH better than usual. My girlfriend was clearly getting niggled at me over my irritability, but as she had epic moodies with her periods, she understood, too. Then when the dosage was raised further, things calmed down, I went back to being my usual amiable self and my spatial awareness returned to normal.

And here was me thinking you guys have it generally easier.. I'll never think that again!

[Dean Thoreau]

Esme, your irritability description is wonderful.
It ended up my daughter who gives me my shots was giving me twice the amount I was supposed to be getting. Am now on a lower dose and restarted; least now I am in more control of what I desire.
As much as the “ wanting to fug anything that moves, and knot holes in trees were starting to look good “ I do confess much good has come out of it.
I finally accepted my straight man status (sort of) and realized the benefits of being a 65 yr old straight male. I’m outnumbered, so many ladies!!!! Nice sweet ladies, who are so well mannered and polite, until the door closes.
And yes, after the initial meet and greet, or care for a cup of coffee time, I have told each woman I am TG. Not a problem,
Definitely going for phalloplasty.... buying stock in condoms, and coconut oil...
I know I know, I am objectifying; but I am very nice and very very honest about the no strings attached.... friends with benefits...regular roll in the hay caveats. My heart will not be given to another; until I am declared dead , then the dr can give it away.

[Esme nha Maire]

(laughing) I hadn't thought about that - yes, older FTMs that are hetero will indeed be outnumbered by potential partners, y'lucky wossnames!

I'm glad to hear that you're not having partner problems re being transgendered. The thing that has me scratching my head is why us MTFs that are lesbian don't seem to be accepted quite so well when it comes to matters sexual by cis-lesbians. I mean, I get the impression that generally us women are a little more open-minded than guys when it comes to matters to do with gender and sex, but MTFs and lesbianism? Hmm..

Still, things seem to be moving rather rapidly these days. Perhaps it's something that will sort itself out in a generation or two.

Twice the proper dosage? Sheesh! I'm so glad you weren't damaged as a result!

The thing with objectifying the target of ones sexual desire is that pretty much everyone does it some of the time. So long as you you treat them as thinking feeling human beings most of the time, all is relatively well.

It's when objectification is so pervasive that the humanity of those one desires is ignored that problems arise. Indeed, I'd argue that it's precisely that which is at the root of patriarchy and the problems it has created, with the creation of social systems that have treated women as no better than cattle, as mere posessions of men.

You're being honest, and your lady friends are clearly appreciating that, from what you say - no need to feel guilty!

[Dean Thoreau]

FYI I finally got a pic to post ... 4mos on T, after an accident or two I am on 50 for at least another month.
October I see dr Rumer for bottom surgery decided on phallo... with the implant, and since I turn 65 in December my current ins which pays 100% goes away and I end up with Medicare that pays 90% so I will be begging for doc to do before dec 1;
So I got to say thanks to u all, I love being able to share on here, it helps a lot. Past few months really took me by surprise; and I am coming out of my chrysalis and into public more.
Until my bilateral mastectomy there was no passing except when I walked in a ladies rest room; now that the FF’s are gone and the facial hair is coming in more each day; it’s ok.
One question, all my bank info and credit cards or in my assigned at birth name , and my id is in birth name...but I don’t look like those pics, and oh I was praying yesterday when the guy at the theater asked for I’d when I handed him my credit card. Luckily my mil id he just glanced at...ok so how do I do this till my name is changed??? Which may take till January... ????

I have hotel bills and restaurant tabs coming up...son gets married in 2 weeks and the father of the groom gets to pay for the rehearsal dinner 😮, and a whole bunch of stuff I just found out about....
then in November a daughter is getting married so those credit cards and debit cards need to be working.

Oh yah I finally called my mother and told her; she’s not the most lucid individual but she seemed to be ok, till I told her my name change... when I told her I named myself after my son she wasn’t to nice but I told her and I did the full name change on Facebook as well as gender, that got the trump voter side of the family in a major tizzy,,,, seems I am no longer the female heiress to a bunch of junk... my response was thank god!!!
My soon to be married kids are wonderful. And have openly asked questions regarding how I preferr to be introduced etc. god my kids are great. Ok I wrote a book sorry. DT