The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[SuperFemme]

I think that there is a darned good system in place to deal with NT people that don't "follow the rules". I hear what you are saying but I don't want to get too far sidetracked into how NT people are assholes too and "get away" with it. I think it detracts from what we are talking about here.

We are a self policed community here, and how "we" choose to deal with each other is super important.

What I am exploring here is fair and equitable treatment for people who are differently abled, and how maybe we have a different set of expectations sometimes.

[violaine]

[QUOTE=SuperFemme;151967]What I am exploring here is fair and equitable treatment for people who are differently abled, and how maybe we have a different set of expectations sometimes.

yes, and i am DA, and am participating in this thread topic as such, addressing the very same thing - fairness - from every angle.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I think that there is a darned good system in place to deal with NT people that don't "follow the rules". I hear what you are saying but I don't want to get too far sidetracked into how NT people are assholes too and "get away" with it. I think it detracts from what we are talking about here.

We are a self policed community here, and how "we" choose to deal with each other is super important.

What I am exploring here is fair and equitable treatment for people who are differently abled, and how maybe we have a different set of expectations sometimes.

Is it bad to have a different set of expectations? In all respect, I am not trying to be negative.

I agree that pity is bad, and treating with kid gloves is bad....but what about different types of communication where someone might read like an asshole to the average person, when really they are not trying to be an asshole at all?

I have pretty much stopped mentioning when someone is AS as an explanation for behavior because the answer always is..."so and so is not stupid", then I feel stupid for even bringing it up because the post was clear as day to me as not assholish and I must be stupid to be able to understand it clearly.

The difference between many people who are Autistic and on the Spectrum is that we don't see ourselves as having a disability. We see ourselves as having a different way of being which some of us even see as being superior (hence the problem I think)...and I know this can cause anger in Neurotypical people. I have experienced it myself.

Heck NO I don't want pity, but I don't want to be like everyone else either, except for maybe you SuperFemme! xoxoxxo

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Is it bad to have a different set of expectations? In all respect, I am not trying to be negative.

I agree that pity is bad, and treating with kid gloves is bad....but what about different types of communication where someone might read like an asshole to the average person, when really they are not trying to be an asshole at all?

I have pretty much stopped mentioning when someone is AS as an explanation for behavior because the answer always is..."so and so is not stupid", then I feel stupid for even bringing it up because the post was clear as day to me as not assholish and I must be stupid to be able to understand it clearly.

The difference between many people who are Autistic and on the Spectrum is that we don't see ourselves as having a disability. We see ourselves as having a different way of being which some of us even see as being superior (hence the problem I think)...and I know this can cause anger in Neurotypical people. I have experienced it myself.

Heck NO I don't want pity, but I don't want to be like everyone else either, except for maybe you SuperFemme! xoxoxxo

I am not talking about expectations, although I do think that if we are going to take the time to understand and communicate with people of different abilities that we can take an extra moment and give that same consideration to NT people too if we want to.

I am speaking to a different set of rules/consequences. Really, even if consequences are on a case by case basis (which isn't a bad thing and is my understanding this happens across the board here by mods/owners) at then end of the day are the rules different?

If so, then how is that empowering and a positive thing?

I don't have autism/AS so I don't really know what things look like for somebody that does. Since you know maybe you can tell me if you would feel ok with having a different set of rules than the rest of the world?

Because I am super interested in hearing from ALL kinds of differently abled people.

If someone doesn't consider themselves as such, I respect that. Who am I to label? As for you bringing it up and the response being "that person is not stupid"? That is not a response from a person who wants to communicate. That is a response from a person who is deeply invested in being "right".

I get pretty fumed at the expectation of stupidity in relation to being differently abled. I want to punch people that say "You're so smart, I'd never know you had a TBI".

Instead? I try to educate. If it's a moot point, I don't try very hard.

[Apocalipstic]

Ah, now I get it! Rules.

No, I do not think there should be a different set of rules. The TOS is clearly stated.

Do I think we should try a little harder to understand each other? Yes! I know there is not a word for phobia or an "ism" for people on the spectrum, but I see it in action by well meaning people like we do racism, sexism, DAism, sizeism, etc.

We hold to what is familiar.

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I am not talking about expectations, although I do think that if we are going to take the time to understand and communicate with people of different abilities that we can take an extra moment and give that same consideration to NT people too if we want to.

I am speaking to a different set of rules/consequences. Really, even if consequences are on a case by case basis (which isn't a bad thing and is my understanding this happens across the board here by mods/owners) at then end of the day are the rules different?

If so, then how is that empowering and a positive thing?

I don't have autism/AS so I don't really know what things look like for somebody that does. Since you know maybe you can tell me if you would feel ok with having a different set of rules than the rest of the world?

Because I am super interested in hearing from ALL kinds of differently abled people.

If someone doesn't consider themselves as such, I respect that. Who am I to label? As for you bringing it up and the response being "that person is not stupid"? That is not a response from a person who wants to communicate. That is a response from a person who is deeply invested in being "right".

I get pretty fumed at the expectation of stupidity in relation to being differently abled. I want to punch people that say "You're so smart, I'd never know you had a TBI".

Instead? I try to educate. If it's a moot point, I don't try very hard.

[adorable]

I give people passes. Differently abled - perfectly abled - any kind of abled.

We ALL have something that isn't right. For some of us, how we are raised means that we don't have appropriate social skills. Some might talk like an asshole to everyone, scream and yell - say all kinds of mean and stupid things. My grandfather comes to mind. I have a choice as to whether or not I interact with him. I chose to. I do that because I love him and know that his life was way harder then mine and that in his heart he cares about me. Would people call him abusive? Yep and he sure can be. I give him a pass and deal with him knowing full well what that means. He cannot change. He dropped out of school in the 7th or 8th grade. He is 81 years old. He has good qualities. I don't have to agree with everything he says or even like it. I shrug it off and consider the source for his information or accusations. I chose how I react to him.

I have someone who works for me that is developmentally disabled and has the mental capacity of a 13 year old girl. I give her passes all day long. She is 25 years old. She cannot change. I interact with her and view her as a 13 year old girl, she's worked for me for six years. She lies. She gets boy crazy. Makes bad choices. I do not hold her to the same level of accountability as others on my staff. It wouldn't make sense. She doesn't function at that level. Her life, outside of her job, is 100% harder. She is picked on by strangers on the street, mocked and sometimes taken advantage of. For that alone I will give her a pass. I don't need to kick her ass all day - the minute she leaves the world will do it for her. She suffers from OCD too. She has destroyed things because of it. It's frustrating to deal with for me personally. But I know it is 10x worse for her. Her capacity to understand things is not likely to change. She is capable of learning, but a capacity to truly understand? Not likely.

I have a brain "issue" that at different times can make me loopy. That is the least of what it can do. I am smart. Really smart. I am also quick. I'm hard to fool. I can think clearly much of the time. The problem is in those loopy moments, I don't know I'm loopy. People that love me get it. They are whose opinions matter to me. I will be given a pass, if for no other reason then they are grateful to have me here on this earth. And because when it is happening - I don't know it. I don't have the capacity to recognize it. So someone could get all up in my face and they might as well just keep their blood pressure down. It won't do a damn bit of good. And my "insubordination" is not a reflection of anyone's screaming ability. It has to do with how the world appears to me at that moment which might just be all spinny with multicolored glitter.

There is a difference between pushing someone for their own good - for instance - to walk again with positive cheerleading. Then there is expecting something that someone doesn't have the capacity to give. My mother used a belt to potty train me. I didn't ever hit my kids, but I did tell them to get up if they fell down. No crying. Get back up and keep moving. I regret that. I wish I had hugged them more and demanded less. Oh, I'm sure it helped toughen them up. But now, at 35 I am trying to learn how to be softer. I hope I haven't caused either of them the resentment that I have spent trying to undo towards my own mother for all that screaming, demanding and ridiculous expectations of steel. Sometimes, no matter how tough we are - we all need a pass. A safe place to fall. Understanding and compassion go a lot farther then screaming and yelling and demanding. I make a choice of interacting with the people I do - if I can't handle it - it's simply best if I don't.

My ex has severe mental illnesses. She has done shitty things without as much as a sincere apology. She doesn't have the capacity. I can scream, yell, jump up and down, call her on her shit - hold a gun to her - and she still doesn't have capacity. Does she have a pass? She did. I don't hold people responsible for illnesses like that. I did expect her to go on medication. There were consequences for not doing that. We both live with that every day. I didn't have to raise my voice either. She's not stupid or a bad person. She is sick and very differently abled. I talk to her in the way that does the best good and try to keep in mind that today I am lucky enough to know the difference in a way that she may not - ever. I live in reality. My reality. Not everyone does. Handing out passes doesn't cost me a damn thing. There are plenty of people out there that hold on to them like gold wrapper on a willy wonka bar.

[Plato]

Originally Posted by adorable

We ALL have something that isn't right.... Would people call him abusive? Yep and he sure can be. I give him a pass and deal with him knowing full well what that means. He cannot change.

I have someone who works for me that is developmentally disabled and has the mental capacity of a 13 year old girl. I give her passes all day long. She is 25 years old. She cannot change.

Then there is expecting something that someone doesn't have the capacity to give. Sometimes, no matter how tough we are - we all need a pass.

Compassion for the limits of someone else is NOT giving a pass. Making excuses for why folks cannot change is bs.

I was told that I would die or be in prison forever because addicts don't change.
I was told that I wouldn't walk again due to the lack of oxygen and 6 months of hospitalization.

WRONG on both counts and shame on those who were so willing to write me off.

If such perceptions are kept low and comfortable, there isn't a reason to change. Change is difficult and time consuming. The goals may never be met, but without big dreams there can be no big rewards. The motivation TO CHANGE can only be achieved when the consequences for staying the same are larger than the rewards for changing.

[adorable]

Originally Posted by Plato

Compassion for the limits of someone else is NOT giving a pass. Making excuses for why folks cannot change is bs.

I was told that I would die or be in prison forever because addicts don't change.
I was told that I wouldn't walk again due to the lack of oxygen and 6 months of hospitalization.

WRONG on both counts and shame on those who were so willing to write me off.

If such perceptions are kept low and comfortable, there isn't a reason to change. Change is difficult and time consuming. The goals may never be met, but without big dreams there can be no big rewards. The motivation TO CHANGE can only be achieved when the consequences for staying the same are larger than the rewards for changing.

Some people do not have moments of clarity. In order for someone to change they have to understand the wrong. Just because SOME people have that ability doesn't mean that all do. I'm sure that in recovery you've heard "The capacity to be honest..." Not every addict or alcoholic has it. Everyone will eventually walk away from them and they will end up institutionalized, in jail or dead. This stems from CHOICES that they made.

With mental illness there is no choice to be made. Nor is there in developmental disability or some brain injuries or some disorders. That motivation to change that you speak of only comes with the ability to understand the underlying need for change - a level of self awareness that comes with the ability to rationalize and understand behavior and an ability to control that behavior. Also known as hitting bottom. It can be relative to the person that you are dealing with for lots of different reasons. Not everyone is aware and I promise that all the yelling in the world will not make someone able to understand when that ability doesn't exist. I think it's self centered to think that because I am enlightened - that I get it - everyone else must too so they must be making a choice to piss me off, annoy me, not act right.....then I can take that one step further and hold the world accountable to MY standard of right and wrong.

I have the luxury of choice. I can wake up tomorrow and CHOOSE how I will conduct myself in public. How I will interact with people, how I will wear my hair and what color my nails will be. I will choose to walk out the door just once. But what if I wake up tomorrow and believe that if I don't walk out the door perfectly 15 times that I will die? What if I can't walk out the door perfectly? What if you think that is stupid? Is it better to scream at me that it's stupid, cause me internal panic and conflict then force me out the door anyway because YOU know and that shit ain't gonna fly with you? People can and do kill themselves to stop the torment.

What if I believe that there are people who are trying to kill me? There is no uncertainty. I know it. I hear people that I know whispering that in my ears. I can smell the fear in a room. I see smoke. It's real to people who feel it, who see it. That is their reality. Go ahead and tell them they have a choice to come out from behind the couch. That it's not true. That no one is trying to kill them - it's all make believe. Then, come back and let me know how that worked out for you. I can tell you how it ends.

Or tell someone who is really 13 years old, even though she looks much older that she needs to put down her cell phone and get back to work. Tell her 30 times. Hell, go ahead and tell her 100 times. Treat her the same as everyone else. Rules are rules. Fire her for not listening like a 25 year old should listen because YOU said so. Sorry. That doesn't work for me. She is not 25, her brain doesn't function at the same level. There are rules for our society. By our societal standards she shouldn't even have a job. She can't even chew with her mouth closed. Not because she doesn't know she should, but because her brain can't focus on chewing AND keeping her mouth closed. That isn't funny. That is her reality. I celebrate her ability to have a job at all. I focus on what she does right. I will tell her and try to guide her, but telling someone all about themselves and their shortcomings when they don't have the ability to understand - seems abusive. Who really gets something out of that?

I wouldn't give someone making a choice to do something destructive a pass in the same way. I am talking about the ability to think, understand, comprehend and possession of a critical thinking ability. Not everyone has it. It's rather easy and privileged to think everyone should.

To me it similar to thinking everyone should just speak English or just move out of the projects if they want a better life. It IS that easy right? Wouldn't the world be a better place if people just "got it" and didn't live to annoy the rest of us people with all of our smarts and reasoning?

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I am not talking about expectations, although I do think that if we are going to take the time to understand and communicate with people of different abilities that we can take an extra moment and give that same consideration to NT people too if we want to.

I am speaking to a different set of rules/consequences. Really, even if consequences are on a case by case basis (which isn't a bad thing and is my understanding this happens across the board here by mods/owners) at then end of the day are the rules different?

If so, then how is that empowering and a positive thing?

I don't have autism/AS so I don't really know what things look like for somebody that does. Since you know maybe you can tell me if you would feel ok with having a different set of rules than the rest of the world?

Because I am super interested in hearing from ALL kinds of differently abled people.

If someone doesn't consider themselves as such, I respect that. Who am I to label? As for you bringing it up and the response being "that person is not stupid"? That is not a response from a person who wants to communicate. That is a response from a person who is deeply invested in being "right".

I get pretty fumed at the expectation of stupidity in relation to being differently abled. I want to punch people that say "You're so smart, I'd never know you had a TBI".

Instead? I try to educate. If it's a moot point, I don't try very hard.

PS, and I appologize if I sounded like NT people are assholes too! Some of my best friends are NT's. Ha!

Everyone can be an asshole.

And maybe, on further reflection that is the point you are making? No passes for being an asshole no matter what your deal or excuse might be?

Because if so? I agree 100% as long as we are making completely sure the person is indeed an asshole (like Balloon Boy's dad, apparently )

[MrSunshine]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

PS, and I appologize if I sounded like NT people are assholes too! Some of my best friends are NT's. Ha!

Everyone can be an asshole.

And maybe, on further reflection that is the point you are making? No passes for being an asshole no matter what your deal or excuse might be?

Because if so? I agree 100% as long as we are making completely sure the person is indeed an asshole (like Balloon Boy's dad, apparently )

When you find a way to figure out if someone is an asshole and are completely sure let us all in on it???

I was just thinking about this thread and assholes (of all things). There really is NO way of knowing what is up with everyone on ANY given site.
I've seen a quote on a few people's page that says something about "everyone you meet is going through something" (okay, my memory blows) you get the point though right? Still no pass.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by MrSunshine

When you find a way to figure out if someone is an asshole and are completely sure let us all in on it???

I was just thinking about this thread and assholes (of all things). There really is NO way of knowing what is up with everyone on ANY given site.
I've seen a quote on a few people's page that says something about "everyone you meet is going through something" (okay, my memory blows) you get the point though right? Still no pass.

On the rules? I agree.

and good point on assholes, sometimes I give pass after pass after pass until I have nothing left and walk away.

[MrSunshine]

Passes. I don't get them or give them.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I think that there is a darned good system in place to deal with NT people that don't "follow the rules". I hear what you are saying but I don't want to get too far sidetracked into how NT people are assholes too and "get away" with it. I think it detracts from what we are talking about here.

We are a self policed community here, and how "we" choose to deal with each other is super important.

What I am exploring here is fair and equitable treatment for people who are differently abled, and how maybe we have a different set of expectations sometimes.

Thanks for this thread. I will be back to participate later. Gotta get some household stuff done, today!

My 30 year old great-nephew will soon be living close to me as he enters graduate school. He is not only a young man born with V.A.T.E.R.'s Syndrome (also known as V.A.C.T.E.R.L. syndrome) with life-long physical ramifications, hospitalizations and surgeries. He also also deals with Asperger's syndrome.

Will be good to be able to read some things, here, I believe.

http://specialchildren.about.com/od/...ex/g/VATER.htm