The Mythical *Pass* for Differently-Abled People

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Liam

I don't want a pass, however I do want people to ask questions for clarification. My experience has been that people make assumptions, over and over, and they are wrong.

I don't think most people should have a pass, however there are those whom I believe should. When a brain injury occurs, the functions of the neurons, nerve tracts, or sections of the brain can be effected. If the neurons and nerve tracts are effected, they can be unable or have difficulty carrying messages that tell the brain what to do. This can result in Thinking Changes, Physical Changes, and Personality and Behavioral Changes. These changes can be temporary or permanent. They may cause impairment or complete inability to perform a function. One of these impairments, which may occur concerns social competence, it is one of the most complex tasks our brain encounters, and for some it doesn't happen. If someone lacks skill in this area, it is unreasonable to demand that it occur. Anger and punishment only adds to their frustration, and they only know that they did something wrong, but are left without a clue as to how to fix it. A person can read, write, take care of themselves and not be able to grasp the nuances that many take for granted. Their style of communication may seem inappropriate, when they are angry, scared or excited. I think this kind of person should get a pass.

As a person with severe brain injury I hear what you are saying. In fact I live with what you are saying.

In my brain injury rehab there were a lot of young men. A LOT of them were very sexually inappropriate. Hell, *I* was sexually inappropriate at first too. I would grab nurses rear ends and ask incredibly inappropriate sexual question. I was often kicked out of therapies. By the time I was done I had had 11 different occupational therapists. 11!!!!

At rehab, there was a warning, and then there was either suspension or expulsion from the program. At occupational therapy? Same thing.

Why is that do you think? The very places we are at for help are kicking us out! I used to get soooo angry.

Until I had an "aha" moment. That was as follows: when I am inappropriate with myself there is just me. With my loved ones? There is more lee-way for a pass, but they can walk away. To strangers? Well aha! No nurse deserves to be groped. Or made the object of sexual inappropriateness. The is not just "me" involved any longer when I am inappropriate or don't follow the rules. To put greater value on *me* because I am disabled erases the other human being involved. After being kicked out of 11 occupational therapy programs? I figured out that a little self gratification in my room was probably a WAY better idea than getting kicked out again, and I was running out of options.

I don't think it's fair to place greater equitable value on one human being than another. So if a person is on this site, is differently abled and been talked to and talked to and worked with? And still is sexually inappropriate, or calling names, or any other number of behaviors? Then consequences are in order.

I also think it's dangerous to assume that everyone is NOT differently abled just because you haven't been told otherwise. I have seen one differently abled person do all the things I mentioned above to another differently abled person and never have a clue that that was the case.

So again, I am not asking the site to lose it's compassion. In fact I am not even purporting to tell others what to do.

But I am asking you (specific and general) to not give me Adele a pass where you normally wouldn't give one. Please. It doesn't help me.

I may be a lot of things, but I have NOT been fighting for equality both in the Queer world and the Disabled world to have it taken away from me against my will.

Just like I got a marriage license last year here in CA. If I were to ever break up? I would fully expect to go through the same thing hetero couples go through. Divorce, sharing of property, child support, and spousal support should all be taken into consideration. I don't get to rip up my marriage license and not have the same consequences because "Queer marriage is now illegal".

I don't want to participate on this site, within my own community as anything other than an equal. I don't want differently abled to be the only lens you see me through, or the first thought when debating with me.

I'm willing to do the work, and follow the rules. I'm willing to learn. I can't do that if I never know I am wrong.

I can only truly make this plea for myself, but I would hope that all differently abled people would be treated as equals. Not separate but equal.

Edited to add: I am NOT asking for a lack of compassion, or for people to lose all patience and empathy with me. Or anyone else. Not at all. A pass does not = working with somebody. I've tried really hard to make that clear but feel I've got a big fat fail because I don't feel heard.

[Corkey]

Equality is great, and people should be held accountable, no matter how many times it needs to happen. With people who are fully capable of doing so. Some just aren't, and they are the ones I will work with, not give a pass to, but work with. I think we are saying the same thing. If we are referring to an individual, who is fully aware that their behavior is inappropriate, then yes they need to be held accountable. Ones rights end at the beginning of another's nose.

[SuperFemme]

Right now I really really want to be dramatic and declare the thread closed, apologize for bringing this up and make innuendos that I am leaving and boy will everyone be sorry. Really bad.

Instead.

I'm going to take a deep breath and try to figure out where I am not saying this correctly.

Is it that I haven't defined "the mythical *pass*"?

Am I shaming people who try hard to give room and leeway to DA people?

Am I just stuck on my thought and not hearing people?

[Liam]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Right now I really really want to be dramatic and declare the thread closed, apologize for bringing this up and make innuendos that I am leaving and boy will everyone be sorry. Really bad.

Instead.

I'm going to take a deep breath and try to figure out where I am not saying this correctly.

Is it that I haven't defined "the mythical *pass*"?

Am I shaming people who try hard to give room and leeway to DA people?

Am I just stuck on my thought and not hearing people?

I hear you saying that as a person with Traumatic Brain Injury, you are differently abled, and that you wish to be held accountable for what you say, how you say it, as well as how you behave. I hear you saying that you wish to be held accountable by the same standards of those who are not differently abled.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Liam

I hear you saying that as a person with Traumatic Brain Injury, you are differently abled, and that you wish to be held accountable for what you say, how you say it, as well as how you behave. I hear you saying that you wish to be held accountable by the same standards of those who are not differently abled.

I am saying that I want the same rules.

I am uncomfortable saying that there is only one way of accountability, because people communicate on a myriad of levels.

I am saying that I want the opportunity to be accountable.

That means I want to know if I've done something wrong. I don't want people to be afraid to tell me.

I also don't want everyone to erase all caring and compassion when doing so.

If I had not been thrown out of 10 occupational therapists? I would not have learned that my behavior was unacceptable. So it took me ten times, but then again I was cognitively around 5 or 6 years old. I am closer to my real age now, but it took years.

So usually I am able to learn in three or less.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Corkey

I for one think this is an invaluable thread, and no I think you are saying what you are just fine. if my opinion matters to you, and I think it does. No i don't feel shamed one iota. I do tend to call folks out on isms and for getting in other folks space, when it isn't their place to do so.

Thank you Corkey. Yes, your opinion matters to me greatly.

Originally Posted by urs

No no, I think I hear you!

I guess it's just a very emotive topic, and there are all kinds of issues feeding into it and surrounding it, and its meaning has so many different nuances and so many different connotations to different people. It's a challenging subject, but I think we're going somewhere with it.

Thank you to Urs. I think you are right about all kinds of issues feeding into it and the many nuances. I appreciate the reminder, because sometimes I get frustrated and my brain gets "flooded" which means that I have a hard time processing. I may be flooded right now.

[christie]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

I am saying that I want the same rules.

I am uncomfortable saying that there is only one way of accountability, because people communicate on a myriad of levels.

I am saying that I want the opportunity to be accountable.

That means I want to know if I've done something wrong. I don't want people to be afraid to tell me.

I also don't want everyone to erase all caring and compassion when doing so.

If I had not been thrown out of 10 occupational therapists? I would not have learned that my behavior was unacceptable. So it took me ten times, but then again I was cognitively around 5 or 6 years old. I am closer to my real age now, but it took years.

So usually I am able to learn in three or less.

I am gonna jump out on a limb here and give a specific example of how I try to apply that lens and I hope you don't mind my using it nor do I want anyone to think I am tooting my own horn....

Jess started a thread something about "What do you do". (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...read.php?t=840) SF, you misread the intent and popped off your response based on what you thought the intent was. I thought it rather dismissive and rather than pop off a one liner telling you that I thought you were being dismissive, I took the time and effort to post an explanation that expanded upon the OP. (#17)

You understood it then and went on to make a great post full of non-monetary suggestions.

Was this me giving you a pass? Not to me it wasn't. This was me taking into consideration what you have shared about having TBI and trying to find that different language to communicate the same as Jess. I think that this is the "with caring and compassion" of which you speak.

I think that as an online community, we do no differently than we do in our real communities and homes. I don't discount the lesser educated production worker any more than I want that worker to discount me. Their contribution to the community of our workplace is just as vital as mine.

I know that Snow is making reference to a specific individual and that must be a really tough place to be in.

I do think, however severely DA a person might be, they still have the same needs as those less DA or NT - they still deserve to be here and to contribute in their own ways and I think they still have to be accountable for their actions within the community. I do think that there are considerations and the endless explanations and repeated conversations to be done in order to assist those persons in being here.

To that end, what about a buddy system? What if there were a group of volunteers who rotated buddy duty? I know firsthand how taxing the repetitive explanations can be and how your patience is quickly drained. If there was a rotation of sorts, no one person would be overly utilized and it would give the DA person the opportunity to interact with others and perhaps, through hearing the same message in a different voice, it might just be the "Eureka!" moment.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Yeah, I need to step off this convo cause I am not going to be empathetic to the issues, I can understand taking the time and being empathetic but not to the point where I am being dismissed.

I feel if I continue to advocate my set of limits it makes me look like the big bad wolf, I got enough of that going on.. I also would of liked to continue to post without it being pointed out about who has issues with me cause it's not about one particular individual I am talking about people in general I deal with everyone the same each time. Period

I am out.

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by christie0918

I am gonna jump out on a limb here and give a specific example of how I try to apply that lens and I hope you don't mind my using it nor do I want anyone to think I am tooting my own horn....

Jess started a thread something about "What do you do". (http://www.butchfemmeplanet.com/foru...read.php?t=840) SF, you misread the intent and popped off your response based on what you thought the intent was. I thought it rather dismissive and rather than pop off a one liner telling you that I thought you were being dismissive, I took the time and effort to post an explanation that expanded upon the OP. (#17)

You understood it then and went on to make a great post full of non-monetary suggestions.

Was this me giving you a pass? Not to me it wasn't. This was me taking into consideration what you have shared about having TBI and trying to find that different language to communicate the same as Jess. I think that this is the "with caring and compassion" of which you speak.

I think that as an online community, we do no differently than we do in our real communities and homes. I don't discount the lesser educated production worker any more than I want that worker to discount me. Their contribution to the community of our workplace is just as vital as mine.

I know that Snow is making reference to a specific individual and that must be a really tough place to be in.

I do think, however severely DA a person might be, they still have the same needs as those less DA or NT - they still deserve to be here and to contribute in their own ways and I think they still have to be accountable for their actions within the community. I do think that there are considerations and the endless explanations and repeated conversations to be done in order to assist those persons in being here.

To that end, what about a buddy system? What if there were a group of volunteers who rotated buddy duty? I know firsthand how taxing the repetitive explanations can be and how your patience is quickly drained. If there was a rotation of sorts, no one person would be overly utilized and it would give the DA person the opportunity to interact with others and perhaps, through hearing the same message in a different voice, it might just be the "Eureka!" moment.

I appreciate you giving this example. There are totally days that I am not in good form and misread. There are days I don't have my loved ones to read my posts first.

That was one of those days. I would hope that you would give that consideration to anyone. Not just me. Because anyone can misread and pop off.

So no, I don't think that was you giving me a poss. That is not what I am talking about when I say a pass and I think that is where people are getting confused.

Had you taken the time and effort to explain the intent to me, and had I continued coming in and insisting that my interpretation was correct, and kept popping off shitty things? And not been held accountable (reported, pm'd, told in public or whatever) then that is where it becomes something I'd call a pass.

Clarifying ones point and clearing up a misunderstood intent is NOT giving a pass. I also truly hate to think that I got special treatment that you would not give the next person. I hope I am not being rude by saying that I can only remember as reading you patiently explain you point when others don't get it.

It's also a grayer area in the example that you gave because I don't think any rules were broken per se. I think that I was not thoughtful in reading the OP and rude in my reply. Now if I had come in and said: This is stupid. I think you're an asshole" would you have taken the same approach? What if I had continued? I would really hope that you would report me.

So in short, no I don't think you gave me a pass. That is not at all what I meant by giving a pass.

I hope this post gives a better feel for what I am trying to say?

[Corkey]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Right now I really really want to be dramatic and declare the thread closed, apologize for bringing this up and make innuendos that I am leaving and boy will everyone be sorry. Really bad.

Instead.

I'm going to take a deep breath and try to figure out where I am not saying this correctly.

Is it that I haven't defined "the mythical *pass*"?

Am I shaming people who try hard to give room and leeway to DA people?

Am I just stuck on my thought and not hearing people?

I for one think this is an invaluable thread, and no I think you are saying what you are just fine. if my opinion matters to you, and I think it does. No i don't feel shamed one iota. I do tend to call folks out on isms and for getting in other folks space, when it isn't their place to do so.

[Ursy]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Right now I really really want to be dramatic and declare the thread closed, apologize for bringing this up and make innuendos that I am leaving and boy will everyone be sorry. Really bad.

Instead.

I'm going to take a deep breath and try to figure out where I am not saying this correctly.

Is it that I haven't defined "the mythical *pass*"?

Am I shaming people who try hard to give room and leeway to DA people?

Am I just stuck on my thought and not hearing people?

No no, I think I hear you!

I guess it's just a very emotive topic, and there are all kinds of issues feeding into it and surrounding it, and its meaning has so many different nuances and so many different connotations to different people. It's a challenging subject, but I think we're going somewhere with it.