Olivia Cruisers? Carribean Sun Cruise October 30th

[Words]

Originally Posted by Toughy

What troubles me is we have allowed that animosity to pit us against each other HERE. I doubt very seriously Jack and Dusa would hold a gathering for us on a lesbian cruise.

It troubles me as well Toughy.

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I doubt very seriously Jack and Dusa would hold a gathering for us on a lesbian cruise.

We wouldn't - But I am considering selling an organ or something so we can buy our own Big Gay Boat, paint it lime green and pink, and sail all over the world having Cabarets every night.

[pisceanstar]

Holy shit! I just read this whole thread and wondering if the OP expected all the lack of direct experience opinions.
Interestingly, I think less than 1% of posts actually related to an experience on an Olivia cruise...not to say that learning about a business' ethical practices is not fruitful for the mind but serious overkill on the "I won't go cause so and so" or "you'd be stopped on the dock cause such and such". The facts are often so simple for a reason...yet emotions interpret them

[Blaze]

You know, at first I was going to just let this statement slide, but then it started to bother me a tad.
You asked this question Kobi, so I feel obligated to answer it.
I dont understand how one would not pursue getting their money back if they were stranded at the dock for the reasons they indicated. I suspect a simple complaint to the better business bureau and the local newspapers consumer affairs people would have resulted in a quick refund. Not pursuing this makes me wonder what actually happened at the dock.
You have to remember there was 22 of us. And as I had stated in an earlier post;And then tell us that we could reschedule another time??? We were on vacation, we have paid vacation hours, we can't just show up back to work and say, well can't go right now, so I'm going to work now and can you let me have next month off?!!!
We all worked, and we planned this vacation. Some. For example "Me" worked 2 full time jobs and had to get okayed to get my vacation.
Now... We asked for our money back, their response was, we can RESCHEDULE ALL OF YOU on another cruise. Well we paid to go on this one, we couldn't reschedule. We all did call the better business so that makes 44 complaints. They acknowledge our complaints. And put it down on there paper. We could have gotten lawyers or whatever else roads we may have wanted to take, but then again, we all worked. So if it's our loss, then yes, it was. My concern was not about the money anymore. It was about how we were treated. Was there any Drama involved? NO, we are respectful people, we questioned, we got their answers, and that. Is that. No secrets, no extra hate, we had enough of that. So before presuming otherwise. Ask it from the person who stated this, not hint and post. So basically you don't have to wonder now.
This was just my feelings, and what happened on "Our" experience. Not a debate about what we did wrong or right.
Thanks, Blaze

[citybutch]

Sounds like fun to me!

Originally Posted by Medusa

We wouldn't - But I am considering selling an organ or something so we can buy our own Big Gay Boat, paint it lime green and pink, and sail all over the world having Cabarets every night.

[citybutch]

OMG! Usually they avoid the waves days ahead of time! YIKES!

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Aside from the whole issue of what Olivia does or does not do?
I have to admit I am not even a smidge interested in going on a cruise. (cruising in the queer sense is not off the list though).

Here is one of the reasons for my disdain:

[SuperFemme]

If you harm my brothers and sisters, I can not in good conscience condone that.

[Billy]

Originally Posted by BullDog

I love how non lesbians are some how the authority.

LOL , you are something else But I quess you are the authority of Lesbians cause you have been one for 30 years ..Next time I have a guestion about Lesbians I sure will come find you ...... Until then I would not book a cruise on Olivia Cruises anytime soon .. Just sayin

[Billy]

Originally Posted by Medusa

We wouldn't - But I am considering selling an organ or something so we can buy our own Big Gay Boat, paint it lime green and pink, and sail all over the world having Cabarets every night.

Now that sounds like fun ! Wooooooooooooooooo !

[Kobi]

Blaze,
Thank you for the clarification. One can see how upsetting this would be even so many years after the incident occured.

For clarification, Olivia is not a member of the BBB. When businesses are not members, complaints are not easily resolved using this avenue.

For future reference for anyone who might find themselves with travel cancellations for any number of reasons - complaints to the attorney general in the state where the offending party is licensed is always an option. It is also an option, if you charge the trip to a credit card, to challenge the charges. Travel insurance is always a good idea and Olivia does provide this.

Also helps to check the fine print too i.e. I wonder if Olivia might have a disclaimer somewhere which allows them to refuse entry for any number of reasons. Checking cancellation policies is a good idea as well. Some places will not refund or offer you an alternative date.

It was nice to see people with direct experience on the cruises share their experiences with us.

I'm still keeping my feel on land tho.

Originally Posted by Blaze

You know, at first I was going to just let this statement slide, but then it started to bother me a tad.
You asked this question Kobi, so I feel obligated to answer it.
I dont understand how one would not pursue getting their money back if they were stranded at the dock for the reasons they indicated. I suspect a simple complaint to the better business bureau and the local newspapers consumer affairs people would have resulted in a quick refund. Not pursuing this makes me wonder what actually happened at the dock.
You have to remember there was 22 of us. And as I had stated in an earlier post;And then tell us that we could reschedule another time??? We were on vacation, we have paid vacation hours, we can't just show up back to work and say, well can't go right now, so I'm going to work now and can you let me have next month off?!!!
We all worked, and we planned this vacation. Some. For example "Me" worked 2 full time jobs and had to get okayed to get my vacation.
Now... We asked for our money back, their response was, we can RESCHEDULE ALL OF YOU on another cruise. Well we paid to go on this one, we couldn't reschedule. We all did call the better business so that makes 44 complaints. They acknowledge our complaints. And put it down on there paper. We could have gotten lawyers or whatever else roads we may have wanted to take, but then again, we all worked. So if it's our loss, then yes, it was. My concern was not about the money anymore. It was about how we were treated. Was there any Drama involved? NO, we are respectful people, we questioned, we got their answers, and that. Is that. No secrets, no extra hate, we had enough of that. So before presuming otherwise. Ask it from the person who stated this, not hint and post. So basically you don't have to wonder now.
This was just my feelings, and what happened on "Our" experience. Not a debate about what we did wrong or right.
Thanks, Blaze

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Billy

LOL , you are something else But I quess you are the authority of Lesbians cause you have been one for 30 years ..Next time I have a guestion about Lesbians I sure will come find you ...... Until then I would not book a cruise on Olivia Cruises anytime soon .. Just sayin

Well I am a big fat Lesbian and I wouldn't book either.
To *me* the act of turning away a butch woman or an MTF (which means she is a woman) is not the act of a loving community.

Community means all of us (to me).

Olivia Cruiselines must not put a lot of faith in Lesbians if they are going to speak for the faceless masses and deem them as "upset" by....what? I don't even know. I also feel like any ftm folk wanting to go on this kind of cruise is not living steath as a male full time, but rather still very connected to the community that was their home for so many years,.

I have a super hard time separating Lesbian from Queer. Trans from Queer. Gay from Queer. To me it's all of us for each other. Not all of us against each other.

I cannot begin to examine what Blaze must have felt as a Lesbian on the dock that day, being refused entry. I close my eyes and try to visualize myself there, and the end result is only tears. That act of exclusion of a Lesbian is unconscionable.

[Toughy]

What happened to Blaze was 8 years ago. 8 years. We don't have the whole story and never will get it. That is not said with any judgment at all towards Blaze....it's just a fact. Kobi has made good points concerning this.

Bully, from what I can tell, agrees with what we are saying. Some of you just don't like the way she says. Crap sometimes she irritates me, but I am not gonna mis-read her and jump to conclusions she never made.

How about we stop attacking each other.........specifically stop jumping on Bully. I said some of the same things Bully has said and I got lots names under my posts. Nobody up my ass, making fun of me like Billy's last post. Jesus.............this is getting embarrassing.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

Well I am a big fat Lesbian and I wouldn't book either.
To *me* the act of turning away a butch woman or an MTF (which means she is a woman) is not the act of a loving community.

Community means all of us (to me).

Olivia Cruiselines must not put a lot of faith in Lesbians if they are going to speak for the faceless masses and deem them as "upset" by....what? I don't even know. I also feel like any ftm folk wanting to go on this kind of cruise is not living steath as a male full time, but rather still very connected to the community that was their home for so many years,.

I have a super hard time separating Lesbian from Queer. Trans from Queer. Gay from Queer. To me it's all of us for each other. Not all of us against each other.

I cannot begin to examine what Blaze must have felt as a Lesbian on the dock that day, being refused entry. I close my eyes and try to visualize myself there, and the end result is only tears. That act of exclusion of a Lesbian is unconscionable.

Olivia is NOT a community. It's a business that provides travel services.....cruises.....targeted toward lesbians with disposable income. Good grief. Lets stop confusing business and community. I promise they understand the demographics of their target consumers. Sometimes lesbians just want to be with lesbians.

[Billy]

Originally Posted by Toughy

What happened to Blaze was 8 years ago. 8 years. We don't have the whole story and never will get it. That is not said with any judgment at all towards Blaze....it's just a fact. Kobi has made good points concerning this.

Bully, from what I can tell, agrees with what we are saying. Some of you just don't like the way she says. Crap sometimes she irritates me, but I am not gonna mis-read her and jump to conclusions she never made.

How about we stop attacking each other.........specifically stop jumping on Bully. I said some of the same things Bully has said and I got lots names under my posts. Nobody up my ass, making fun of me like Billy's last post. Jesus.............this is getting embarrassing.

I didn't make fun of Bully .....And there where alot more folks on here having the same issue I was , trying to get the point across , so if you want to call Me out and look past the others , that is your choice and I have know problem with that ...

[The_Lady_Snow]

I must of misread somewhere along the lines but I am pretty sure this all blew up cause someone said that the opinions were lesbianphobic. Till Organic's post which was moderated, no one had..

hmmm.

Before that, it was a discussion with a whole lot of opinions SOME people did not like them and foudn them to be lesbianphobic .

True story..

[SuperFemme]

Originally Posted by Toughy

Olivia is NOT a community. It's a business that provides travel services.....cruises.....targeted toward lesbians with disposable income. Good grief. Lets stop confusing business and community. I promise they understand the demographics of their target consumers. Sometimes lesbians just want to be with lesbians.

as a lesbian, i get to call them my community.
i'm ok with that and stand by it.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

as a lesbian, i get to call them my community.
i'm ok with that and stand by it.

I'm not sure how any for-profit business is part of any community other than the business community. Providing services for a fee and calling that service community makes no sense. My community doesn't make me pay lots of money to participate.

Could you clarify how that works?

[Strappie]

Originally Posted by Toughy

I'm not sure how any for-profit business is part of any community other than the business community. Providing services for a fee and calling that service community makes no sense. My community doesn't make me pay lots of money to participate.

Could you clarify how that works?

Lets try this... I pay to get into lesbian Events sometimes upwards of $100. Now if that isn't "paying" for a service to a lesbian event then hmm I don't know what to call it. To me that doesn't make it right or wrong. If you like the services here or there and want to be able to do more things.. Don't you pay for that upgrade? I went to the Bash in Vegas.. I payed to be apart of their services/events. I went to the Reunion in Little Rock and yes I too paid for the Event. That cost me money to be apart of a COMMUNITY I love so very much. I would do it over and over again.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by Toughy

What happened to Blaze was 8 years ago. 8 years. We don't have the whole story and never will get it. That is not said with any judgment at all towards Blaze....it's just a fact. Kobi has made good points concerning this.

Bully, from what I can tell, agrees with what we are saying. Some of you just don't like the way she says. Crap sometimes she irritates me, but I am not gonna mis-read her and jump to conclusions she never made.

How about we stop attacking each other.........specifically stop jumping on Bully. I said some of the same things Bully has said and I got lots names under my posts. Nobody up my ass, making fun of me like Billy's last post. Jesus.............this is getting embarrassing.

Thanks Toughy. I was thinking the same thing.

I spent a long time before I even posted in this thread trying to understand what was going on. I then spent a lot of time on my initial post trying to cover the issue and ask a few genuine questions.

Then when Snow pointed out there was a lot of upset that I wasn't up to speed on I went over to the other channel to try and figure things out. It took me at least a half an hour to even find the thread and another half hour to read the thread in its entirety. I saw the legitimate concerns raised over there. I also saw Transmen over there- who also are members of this community- saying they fully support lesbians having cruises but if there is going to be a butch femme event they do feel they have a right to be welcome. I completely agreed. I also saw those raising concerns being called liars and their integrity questioned.

Anyway, I spent a lot of time reading up to understand the issues and have asked genuine questions and tried to understand. I haven't called anyone any names, hurled any insults or accused anyone of anything. I have gotten a lot of nasty insults and been told I am engaging in us vs them when there isn't a shred of evidence of that in any of my posts.

Wow, I'm so glad I have spent so much of my time trying to understand only to be insulted, accused and made fun of.

[waxnrope]

just saying ...