Olivia Cruisers? Carribean Sun Cruise October 30th

SuperFemme · 09-08-2010, 07:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

Olivia is NOT a community. It's a business that provides travel services.....cruises.....targeted toward lesbians with disposable income. Good grief. Lets stop confusing business and community. I promise they understand the demographics of their target consumers. Sometimes lesbians just want to be with lesbians.

as a lesbian, i get to call them my community.

i'm ok with that and stand by it.

Toughy · 09-08-2010, 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SuperFemme

as a lesbian, i get to call them my community.

i'm ok with that and stand by it.

I'm not sure how any for-profit business is part of any community other than the business community. Providing services for a fee and calling that service community makes no sense. My community doesn't make me pay lots of money to participate.

Could you clarify how that works?

Strappie · 09-08-2010, 10:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

I'm not sure how any for-profit business is part of any community other than the business community. Providing services for a fee and calling that service community makes no sense. My community doesn't make me pay lots of money to participate.

Could you clarify how that works?

Lets try this... I pay to get into lesbian Events sometimes upwards of $100. Now if that isn't "paying" for a service to a lesbian event then hmm I don't know what to call it. To me that doesn't make it right or wrong. If you like the services here or there and want to be able to do more things.. Don't you pay for that upgrade? I went to the Bash in Vegas.. I payed to be apart of their services/events. I went to the Reunion in Little Rock and yes I too paid for the Event. That cost me money to be apart of a COMMUNITY I love so very much. I would do it over and over again.

Toughy · 09-09-2010, 06:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Strappie

Lets try this... I pay to get into lesbian Events sometimes upwards of $100. Now if that isn't "paying" for a service to a lesbian event then hmm I don't know what to call it. To me that doesn't make it right or wrong. If you like the services here or there and want to be able to do more things.. Don't you pay for that upgrade? I went to the Bash in Vegas.. I payed to be apart of their services/events. I went to the Reunion in Little Rock and yes I too paid for the Event. That cost me money to be apart of a COMMUNITY I love so very much. I would do it over and over again.

Let me try this again. Olivia is a business with a business model that targets part of the greater LGBTQQI community. That does not make Olivia a community. The people who utilize Olivia's services may certainly be a community. A business is not a community.....like-minded individuals may and can create a community.

A business can and will close for lack of money. Communities exist without the presence of money.

Billy · 09-09-2010, 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

Let me try this again. Olivia is a business with a business model that targets part of the greater LGBTQQI community. That does not make Olivia a community. The people who utilize Olivia's services may certainly be a community. A business is not a community.....like-minded individuals may and can create a community.

A business can and will close for lack of money. Communities exist without the presence of money.

I understand what strappie is saying and I understand what Toughy is ..And we can keep repeating the same thing over and over ...But some folks view things different then others ..What difference does it make if they want to call it community or not that is their individual view which happens to be different from yours ...I don't like to come in these threads for this very thing that is going on ..My words where changed around to suit the person reading My posts , now I am yet put into ANOTHER group non-lesbian WTF is next ..If I embarrass you PLEASE put Me on ignore I really don't care ..My point of view is JUST as important as yours ...

My whole point on this thread was to say that Olivia cruises HAS a issue with folks that are very masculine LOOKING ...very simple Had NOTHING to do with being a follower , had NOTHING to
do with how long one has been a Lesbian , HAD nothing to do with OTHER Lesbian events...YES some butches have been on one of these cruises , but something has changed over the years in their policy and it seems to offend some Lesbians who take their cruises ...I will say this again I am all for having Lesbian ONLY events , I understand that , have NO problem with it ...This site is not JUST for Lesbians , if it was I would not be here ..

Strappie · 09-09-2010, 07:17 PM

Toughy,

I have yet to BASH on Olivia... What my whole gripe was over the Thread in the first place is... That X site was NOT thinking clearly of their entire community and there for left out a good major part of people.

I know OLIVIA is a Business and good for them for making it successful!

What my gripe is.. If the Planet did not include our ENTIRE community to an EVENT that they are going to stand to make some money and free advertising then ... WE ALL SHOULD BE INCLUDED and if they don't I WON'T continue my "support" with my $$ membership.

That is what this entire THREAD is about.. NOT whether or not YOU are a LESBIAN ... STR8... BI... TRANS... or any other identity.

Shall we get back on subject.......

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

Let me try this again. Olivia is a business with a business model that targets part of the greater LGBTQQI community. That does not make Olivia a community. The people who utilize Olivia's services may certainly be a community. A business is not a community.....like-minded individuals may and can create a community.

A business can and will close for lack of money. Communities exist without the presence of money.

Toughy · 09-09-2010, 09:26 PM

good grief Strappin.............

I already said I thought it was a bad decision for the other site to hold a b/f gathering directed at folks from that website on Olivia Cruises. Did you not read those posts?

I also said dragging crap from the other site over here was troubling to me.

And this thread was started by a femme who is going on the Oct Olivia Cruise and wondered if anyone else was going.

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Snow

Quote:

even then with Blaze sharing the story, it was like eh it was 8 year ago and well we really don't have the full story, cause well his words were not good enough?

First..........please don't put your own spin on my very clear post. I never said Blaze's words were not good enough. You said that. I was clear to say I was NOT implying any such thing.

8 years is a long time. We don't know the entire story of what happened on the dock when Blaze and friends decided to move their vacation party to the boat. We know the parts Blaze shared. As I said.........there is NO, absolutely NO judgment in saying that. It's a simple statement of fact with no charge behind it.

We also have had two b/f couples (where butches showed up to dinner in ties) say they had no problems at all. One couple even won some game show thang in front of all of the lesbians. Do their voices not count?

What that means is what Olivia has said is true......they can't promise everyone is gonna have a good time or not be challenged based on perceived gender or gender presentation. It sucks that sometimes some lesbians act like asshats. It sucks that sometimes some b/f/t folks act like asshats. It sucks that sometime some people act like asshats.

---------------------------------

Folks always have mixed reviews about how they have been treated at any gathering. I could tell you stories of how Butch Femme Socials has been treated by different bars/clubs in the Bay Area. Some are great and some will make your milk curdle in a bad way. We just don't go back where we were treated like shit without some genuine apology and fence mending. We have also had some b/f/t folks at our Socials CAUSE the shit that happened due to alcohol and chest bumping.

I really do think the conclusions of Olivia discriminates and excludes folks who don't meet their criteria of lesbian are exaggerated. I think it's exaggerated to expect all or most b/f/t folks will be treated like shit. 2 out of 3 stories told here report an excellent adventure/vacation.

Discouraging and pointing out you may be confronted seems smart to me. It means they know their demographics. I still do think they should expand their business model to offer at least one cruise a year that is trans and genderqueer friendly and advertise it that way. I don't think they have to include factory direct men in that model.

Jess · 09-10-2010, 07:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

I really do think the conclusions of Olivia discriminates and excludes folks who don't meet their criteria of lesbian are exaggerated. I think it's exaggerated to expect all or most b/f/t folks will be treated like shit. 2 out of 3 stories told here report an excellent adventure/vacation.

Discouraging and pointing out you may be confronted seems smart to me. It means they know their demographics. I still do think they should expand their business model to offer at least one cruise a year that is trans and genderqueer friendly and advertise it that way. I don't think they have to include factory direct men in that model.

Couldn't agree more ! it would just make good business sense to offer different cruises that are inclusive of different folks within the community. I mean, they have already gotten the system of procuring boats ( still not a fan of the boat) and hotels/ resorts, so I would think either expanding or creating a sister ( no pun intended) company would be a win-win.

Maybe even call it "Oliver"..

SuperFemme · 09-09-2010, 08:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Toughy

I'm not sure how any for-profit business is part of any community other than the business community. Providing services for a fee and calling that service community makes no sense. My community doesn't make me pay lots of money to participate.

Could you clarify how that works?

you need to stop making me cry Toughy.

I understand what a business is, I worked in corporate America for many many years. I understand what you're saying. What I am saying is this: The people that are the faces of Queer/Lesbian businesses ARE my community - my sisters and brothers in the world.

When I frequent Hispanic owned businesses, and a Hispanic gives me flack for my light skin - I am hurt by my own.

So as a Lesbian, being treated like shit under the guise of "it's a business" doesn't fly for me. What I am speaking to here is what happened to Blaze, who was a Lesbian turned away from a Lesbian business for.....what? Left standing on the docks mind you.

I also understand that many people have had great experiences on the Olivia cruiseline. Aboard a ship full of their community, no?

So I understand what you are saying, I do. I'm just coming from a different place.