"Butch" and "Femme" - Truly Antiquated Terms or More Marginalization?

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by hippieflowergirl

this definition only works if the "lesbian" is sexually attracted to someone whose gender is "woman". what about the person whose gender is butch? or transguy? or genderqueer? or intersex? or fill-in-the-blank?

this definition of "lesbian" demands we continue to swallow a binary gender paradigm. such a paradigm has been proven to be greatly limited, limiting, and evolving. it has been many years since science/medicine discovered there were more genetic combinations than xx and xy.

additionally, there was a time when "heterosexual" meant "attracted to 2 sexes" and "homosexual" meant "attracted to 1 sex"...thus, btw, making "heterosexuality" an "abnormality".

generalizations usually end up eliminating important information...evolution in thinking as well as evolution in science being the information threatened with elimination at the moment.

Lesbian is a synonym for female homosexual.

[hippieflowergirl]

Originally Posted by Cyclopea

Lesbian is a synonym for female homosexual.

okay, you use the equation, lesbian = female homosexual and female homosexual = lesbian. that part i get. it's what works in your world. it doesn't work in mine for the reasons i already stated:

you cited a dictionary which defines lesbian as a woman whose sex partners are also women.

if i partner with someone who does not identify themselves as "woman" then am i a lesbian?

and a new question based on your cited definition of "lesbian": is being a lesbian solely defined by sexual intercourse?

by your definition, the answer is 'yes' and yet not all "lesbians" feel that way. if i did use the word "lesbian" to define myself, i wouldnt feel that way either.

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by hippieflowergirl

okay, you use the equation, lesbian = female homosexual and female homosexual = lesbian. that part i get. it's what works in your world. it doesn't work in mine for the reasons i already stated:

you cited a dictionary which defines lesbian as a woman whose sex partners are also women. The english language definition for lesbian is "female homosexual".

if i partner with someone who does not identify themselves as "woman" then am i a lesbian?A lesbian is synonymous with a female homosexual.

and a new question based on your cited definition of "lesbian": is being a lesbian solely defined by sexual intercourse? Do you define sexual orientation based on intercourse?

by your definition, the answer is 'yes' Wha??? I don't follow. and yet not all "lesbians" feel that way. if i did use the word "lesbian" to define myself, i wouldnt feel that way either. Are you speaking for "lesbians" here?

Lesbian is a synonym for "female homosexual".

[hippieflowergirl]

okay, you use the equation, lesbian = female homosexual and female homosexual = lesbian. that part i get. it's what works in your world. it doesn't work in mine for the reasons i already stated:

you cited a dictionary which defines lesbian as a woman whose sex partners are also women.


The english language definition for lesbian is "female homosexual".

yes...i believe i acknowledged that you cited the dictionary. that it was an english dictionary was presumed. i also said that i understood that this was a definition you were comfortable with. i have no issue with you using words in a way that make you comfortable. i do not have to use them the same way.


if i partner with someone who does not identify themselves as "woman" then am i a lesbian?

A lesbian is synonymous with a female homosexual.


i see the repetition but i missed you answering the question. if i partner with someone who does not consider themselves "woman" then am i still a lesbian by your definition? or does no one's definition of themselves matter more/appear more relevant than Webster's?

and a new question based on your cited definition of "lesbian": is being a lesbian solely defined by sexual intercourse? Do you define sexual orientation based on intercourse? by your definition, the answer is 'yes'

Wha??? I don't follow.



based on your dictionary definition of lesbian...that "lesbian" is defined as a woman who has sex with women....that means that lesbians are solely defined by the act of sexual intercourse.

and yet not all "lesbians" feel that way. if i did use the word "lesbian" to define myself, i wouldnt feel that way either.


Are you speaking for "lesbians" here?


i am speaking for myself when i use the word "i".

when i say "not all lesbians feel that way" i am relating the comments of people i know, people who do identify themselves as lesbians, who do not feel defined by the fact that they have sex with people who identify themselves as women.


Lesbian is a synonym for "female homosexual".

is there a point to repeating this statement? i apologize if it doesnt sound as though i understand that this is your point of view. i understand that you referred to the dictionary and that the statement is a summary of what you found there. i am perfectly comfortable not agreeing with the dictionary. i am comfortable with the concept of evolving language and with the idea that i do not define myself using the dictionary as my sole reference for reflection. i am comfortable not agreeing also, but if there is something i am supposed to understand in the repetition i will be the first to admit that i do not see it. sorry.

[Cyclopea]

Originally Posted by hippieflowergirl

okay, you use the equation, lesbian = female homosexual and female homosexual = lesbian. that part i get. it's what works in your world. it doesn't work in mine for the reasons i already stated:

you cited a dictionary which defines lesbian as a woman whose sex partners are also women.


The english language definition for lesbian is "female homosexual".

yes...i believe i acknowledged that you cited the dictionary. that it was an english dictionary was presumed. i also said that i understood that this was a definition you were comfortable with. i have no issue with you using words in a way that make you comfortable. i do not have to use them the same way.
Make me comfortable? I did not create the english language. I don't need to be patronized by someone who disagrees with the existence of dictionaries,lol.

if i partner with someone who does not identify themselves as "woman" then am i a lesbian?

A lesbian is synonymous with a female homosexual.


i see the repetition but i missed you answering the question. if i partner with someone who does not consider themselves "woman" then am i still a lesbian by your definition? or does no one's definition of themselves matter more/appear more relevant than Webster's?You ask here whether sexual orientation/affectational orientation is defined by one's relationships and actions. Are you asking for my personal opinion? Why?

and a new question based on your cited definition of "lesbian": is being a lesbian solely defined by sexual intercourse? Do you define sexual orientation based on intercourse? by your definition, the answer is 'yes'

Wha??? I don't follow.



based on your dictionary definition of lesbian...that "lesbian" is defined as a woman who has sex with women....that means that lesbians are solely defined by the act of sexual intercourse. OK you obviously didn't read them. That's why I keep repeating.

and yet not all "lesbians" feel that way. if i did use the word "lesbian" to define myself, i wouldnt feel that way either.


Are you speaking for "lesbians" here?


i am speaking for myself when i use the word "i".

when i say "not all lesbians feel that way" i am relating the comments of people i know, people who do identify themselves as lesbians, who do not feel defined by the fact that they have sex with people who identify themselves as women.


Lesbian is a synonym for "female homosexual".

is there a point to repeating this statement? i apologize if it doesnt sound as though i understand that this is your point of view. Yes, that's it, really.i understand that you referred to the dictionary and that the statement is a summary of what you found there. i am perfectly comfortable not agreeing with the dictionary. i am comfortable with the concept of evolving language What do you find problematic about lesbian/homosexual women having words to describe themselves?and with the idea that i do not define myself using the dictionary as my sole reference for reflection. i am comfortable not agreeing also, but if there is something i am supposed to understand in the repetition i will be the first to admit that i do not see it. sorry.

Then I'll keep repeating.