About Butches Q & A

[CherylNYC]

Great thread, ALH. I have two questions for the butches. Several of the previous butch posters mentioned feeling somehow inadequate. It sounds as if many butches feel like there's a standard that defines what it means to be butch, and they feel they don't live up to it.

I certainly have those feelings as a femme. I can clean up and dress up pretty well, but my everyday look, as well as my passions and work life, are not at all congruent with feminine standards of dress and behaviour. Feminine standards are broadcast from every billboard. We all know what they are, and I know that in many ways I don't fit them. Most of the time I don't give a rat's ass, and as a feminist I applaud myself for breaking stereotypes on a daily basis. BUT, in my less confident moments I can still be made to feel insecure in my femme ID. Every movie, every commercial and every magazine holds up some impossible ideal of what a feminine woman is supposed to look/act/be like. I know it's a bunch of photoshopped crap designed to sell us products we don't need, but some of it sinks in anyway. Even for me.

There are no TV ads that tell us how a butch is supposed to look and behave, (Thank the Goddess!). So where does the butch standard come from, and how does it happen that butches feel like they are inadequate to it? I'm guessing that even for the most feminist butch, some of that standard is probably based upon expectations of how a man should act. I hope there's a lot more to it than that. Do/did you have role models? Was/is there someone in your life who told/tells you that you aren't butch enough? (I confess to a very unfeminine urge to kick the ass of anyone who would do that, by the way.)

My second question is a related pet peeve. I have a feminist outlook born in the 1970s. Back then all the smart, feminist girls paid their own way on a date. What happened? How on earth has it become expected that the butch pays for the date? It makes no sense to me. Who would have imagined that I would have to re-establish those ground rules as a middle aged woman dating butch women? Is there a reasonable explanation? Please help me out with this.

[Tcountry]

I am not sure there is a single standard...nor exactly where it would come from. We all have our own ideas of how 'a' butch should act, dress, etc...but the good part about our ideas is they are all different & unique to each of us. I would venture to guess that not any two butches you will ever meet will be the same. My dad's joke is "we can't all be the same...cause if we were we would all chase ur mother & she wouldn't like that"...lol
So I guess my own ideals are from my father & grandfathers...as well as setting an example for the younger generations. And it is mostly just about being genuine & respectful. I don't have the feeling of not living up to that standard tho...so maybe not the best one to answer that question.

The dinner question...*sweet smile* my opinion...
I love to pay for dinner. I want to just have a great time with my dinner guest(s) & put it all on one check & not have the "how do we split up the appetizers" talk...lol most of the time it was my idea to go out or where to go anyway...so why not just let me pay for it?
My fiancee will attest to the fact that I would rather go out again & let someone else pay next time than split the check each time. (and even then I get the urge to pay, but am getting better about it) lol

[xxzalciaiomenxx]

I identify as a Dyke, personally I don't like the term butch even though most would look at me and say "hey there goes that butch chick." I understand and mean no offense to those that do ID as butch. I am very masculine in appearance at first meeting, once you get to know me you will find out very quickly that I have an effeminate side, I am very much a woman even though at times I feel inadequate and an impostor in my own body. I have over time come to terms with myself after years of not knowing exactly where I fit in, I have always felt that I should have been born male and something went terribly wrong in the development of the embryo that would eventually become Jenn...from the time I was a small child I knew that I was a "lesbian" even though I didn't know there was a word for it. I would find myself attracted to women, having crushes on the neighborhood mothers, and always being the "daddy" when we played house. I loathed girl clothes, in fact I got in trouble for destroying a dress or two when I was little. I felt comfortable around my male friends, and if I was given a doll as a present I either lost it or pulled its head off! (sorry Barbie)
It was no big shock to my parents when at 16 I told them that I was gay, my friends knew and luckily, since I live in a small town in redneck central WV, I was accepted and never given a hard time about it...I was fortunate to have an older butch friend who was there for me, and I believe this made my coming out much easier.

I work in a long term care facility and most of the residents take one look at me and call me he, I don't correct them because it would 1. Embarrass them, or 2. Confuse them. I have one lady that calls me "Sir Lady" and when asked why she told me, well I know your name is Jennifer and your a girl, but when I look at you I see a Sir, so I just call you Sir Lady!!!

[Skittlesluver]

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

Great thread, ALH. I have two questions for the butches. Several of the previous butch posters mentioned feeling somehow inadequate. It sounds as if many butches feel like there's a standard that defines what it means to be butch, and they feel they don't live up to it.

I certainly have those feelings as a femme. I can clean up and dress up pretty well, but my everyday look, as well as my passions and work life, are not at all congruent with feminine standards of dress and behaviour. Feminine standards are broadcast from every billboard. We all know what they are, and I know that in many ways I don't fit them. Most of the time I don't give a rat's ass, and as a feminist I applaud myself for breaking stereotypes on a daily basis. BUT, in my less confident moments I can still be made to feel insecure in my femme ID. Every movie, every commercial and every magazine holds up some impossible ideal of what a feminine woman is supposed to look/act/be like. I know it's a bunch of photoshopped crap designed to sell us products we don't need, but some of it sinks in anyway. Even for me.

There are no TV ads that tell us how a butch is supposed to look and behave, (Thank the Goddess!). So where does the butch standard come from, and how does it happen that butches feel like they are inadequate to it? I'm guessing that even for the most feminist butch, some of that standard is probably based upon expectations of how a man should act. I hope there's a lot more to it than that. Do/did you have role models? Was/is there someone in your life who told/tells you that you aren't butch enough? (I confess to a very unfeminine urge to kick the ass of anyone who would do that, by the way.)

My second question is a related pet peeve. I have a feminist outlook born in the 1970s. Back then all the smart, feminist girls paid their own way on a date. What happened? How on earth has it become expected that the butch pays for the date? It makes no sense to me. Who would have imagined that I would have to re-establish those ground rules as a middle aged woman dating butch women? Is there a reasonable explanation? Please help me out with this.

As a butch, my personal opinion on your first question is that there is so much more to being a butch than dressing or acting a certain way..its a state of mind if you will. I had no role model growing up as a butch. I knew I liked girls and not boys. I knew that I got along great with boys and they considered me "one of the guys". I played touch football, climbed fences, got dirty and even got kissed by a girl who thought I was a boy lol I think it's an all around persona one embodies and its definitely different with every butch. It's very open and vast..the spectrum of it. Maybe I am more butch to someone (in their opinion) than to someone else. It's all personal perception of an individual.

As for the second question, I think most butches want to be chivalrous or gentlemen by treating their femme like a true lady..which would include paying for their meal, opening the door, pulling out their chair etc. Once again, it's a personal choice. I have no problem paying for dinner or going dutch. Compromise seems to be of the norm these days..and rightfully so with the feminine movement having advanced so far and pushing the boundaries each day.