Stone Butches

[daisyfm]

Originally Posted by Converse

Ok Lets try this….

For the people who have partnered with a Stone Butch, I’m curious what was the “thought process” that you went through the very first time- did you discuss it before/afterwards with the Butch or others, was it a surprise, something you had to adjust to – or did you know that you were looking for a Stone, and what that would mean?

to me there is no thought process, when i have partnered with a Stone Butch i have always known what to expect, which is awesome because i don't like surprises. when there is too much to figure out it means that something is not for you, otherwise things just flow. i knew exactly what i was looking for. there is nothing as wonderful as knowing what you want and finding it. i think...

[ScandalAndy]

Originally Posted by daisyfm

to me there is no thought process, when i have partnered with a Stone Butch i have always known what to expect, which is awesome because i don't like surprises. when there is too much to figure out it means that something is not for you, otherwise things just flow. i knew exactly what i was looking for. there is nothing as wonderful as knowing what you want and finding it. i think...

But how did you know what to expect if not all stone identities encompass the same things? What kind of questions do you ask? Do you ask any questions at all? How could you tell you had addressed their desires, how could they tell they had addressed yours? This may sound dumb, but I'm not sure how to accomplish any of that without at least some dialogue.

[Converse]

Some really interesting posts, thank you for the insight. And it leads me to my next question…

Elsewhere a very young person posted that they had just discovered the term Stone, and with that discovery a lot of things started to make sense for her/hym. The person posted that until now their involvement has been only with those who identify as lesbian, and that when she/hy tries to raise the topic of how she/hy relates sexually to others they turn away. Feeling hurt and rejected, the person asked do I keep trying to explain, or do I just keep looking?

It made me think about those who have no exposure to Butch-Femme dynamics, and how because of a fear of rejection by their peer group, suppress and yearn in silence.... So, can someone id as an androgynous presenting "stone" lesbian, and find interest from a stonefemme?

Of course I have my own opinion, but am curious to hear what others might have to say.

[ScandalAndy]

Ooooh, i LIKE this thought!

First of all, I want to bring up something that stood out about your post. This individual is very young, and their partners turned away from them when dialogue was opened about their sexual desires.

This sounds to me like perhaps the youth and inexperience of this individual's partners caused them to behave selfishly or perhaps a bit immaturely in this case. It can be a folly of youth to subscribe to the idea that lesbianism means one particular way of being intimate (i fell into that trap once, myself). There may be a lack of information available to this person's partners, or this person's partners may not have the compassion or patience to explore different intimacies (another folly of youth I was guilty of once upon a time). Conversely, if a stone relationship isn't what worked best for them, it's probably in everyone's best interest to discover that as soon as possible.


That being said, I feel I can only speak from experience when I say I, as a femme, would have no problem dating an androgynous individual who self identifies as stone. Clearly a dialogue is in order prior to physical intimacy, but a person's sexual preferences and proclivities have never been enough to scare me away. I'll try anything twice.

Originally Posted by Converse

Some really interesting posts, thank you for the insight. And it leads me to my next question…

Elsewhere a very young person posted that they had just discovered the term Stone, and with that discovery a lot of things started to make sense for her/hym. The person posted that until now their involvement has been only with those who identify as lesbian, and that when she/hy tries to raise the topic of how she/hy relates sexually to others they turn away. Feeling hurt and rejected, the person asked do I keep trying to explain, or do I just keep looking?

It made me think about those who have no exposure to Butch-Femme dynamics, and how because of a fear of rejection by their peer group, suppress and yearn in silence.... So, can someone id as an androgynous presenting "stone" lesbian, and find interest from a stonefemme?

Of course I have my own opinion, but am curious to hear what others might have to say.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Converse

Some really interesting posts, thank you for the insight. And it leads me to my next question…

...It made me think about those who have no exposure to Butch-Femme dynamics, and how because of a fear of rejection by their peer group, suppress and yearn in silence.... So, can someone id as an androgynous presenting "stone" lesbian, and find interest from a stonefemme?
.

No problems here. Presenting as androgynous wouldn't exclude a person from consideration for me. Not being a leather top would be a deal breaker, though.

[Converse]

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

Ooooh, i LIKE this thought!

This sounds to me like perhaps the youth and inexperience of this individual's partners caused them to behave selfishly or perhaps a bit immaturely in this case.

Yes I think you may be correct- youth is probably one of the contributing factors to the dilemma.

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

That being said, I feel I can only speak from experience when I say I, as a femme, would have no problem dating an androgynous individual who self identifies as stone.

Originally Posted by CherylNYC

No problems here. Presenting as androgynous wouldn't exclude a person from consideration for me. Not being a leather top would be a deal breaker, though.

This is interesting. So should I read this to mean that it is “Stone” rather than “Butch” that is the more relevant?

I wonder if a similar perception exists for Stone Butches i.e. that the “femme” is secondary to the “stone”, that the two words are separable- allowing Stone to be attached to any ID, gender etc while still retaining its attraction.

[ScandalAndy]

I wouldn't necessarily say that either is more relevant than the other. There are some femmes who would prefer butch to androgyne regardless of stone identity, as well as some femmes whose preference require that their partner identify as stone.

Since this is a question that you are posing to femmes, I would have to assume that majority of those responding are attracted to butches or masculine-identified partners. Androgynes would, therefore, be viewed through the lens of masculinity, I believe. For instance, I personally would be okay with dating an androgynous partner because I do not see them as being firmly identified with femininity or the femme identity.

I think it is possible to separate all labels and use them as we see fit.

Originally Posted by Converse

This is interesting. So should I read this to mean that it is “Stone” rather than “Butch” that is the more relevant?

I wonder if a similar perception exists for Stone Butches i.e. that the “femme” is secondary to the “stone”, that the two words are separable- allowing Stone to be attached to any ID, gender etc while still retaining its attraction.

[Converse]

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

I wouldn't necessarily say that either is more relevant than the other. There are some femmes who would prefer butch to androgyne regardless of stone identity, as well as some femmes whose preference require that their partner identify as stone.

Since this is a question that you are posing to femmes, I would have to assume that majority of those responding are attracted to butches or masculine-identified partners. Androgynes would, therefore, be viewed through the lens of masculinity, I believe. For instance, I personally would be okay with dating an androgynous partner because I do not see them as being firmly identified with femininity or the femme identity.

I think it is possible to separate all labels and use them as we see fit.

Ok I get that- please don’t take my follow up question as being a criticism – merely honest curiosity and it comes from the context of discussions that were had towards the beginning of this thread- which implied that the identity isn’t just about adding the word Stone to Butch to describe preferences in the bedroom, but in fact- was thought to be, by some (myself included), a way to describe a more holistic approach in the way that one related to the world at large.

For those of us who ascribe to the third gender belief, using “stone” with all of its assumed attributes to describe those who do not consider themselves part of the Butch- Femme community- raises some thought provoking questions.

[CherylNYC]

Originally Posted by Converse

This is interesting. So should I read this to mean that it is “Stone” rather than “Butch” that is the more relevant?

I wonder if a similar perception exists for Stone Butches i.e. that the “femme” is secondary to the “stone”, that the two words are separable- allowing Stone to be attached to any ID, gender etc while still retaining its attraction.

I'm attracted to butch women. Very butch women. I'm unlikely to pay much attention to a suitor who is not butch, but if a more androgynous lesbian were to pursue me, and she turned out to be both stone and a sadistic leather top, I might get interested.

My peculiar history of loss informs my choice in this. My late partner was not stone, and didn't ID as butch when she met me. Until then, she had been strenuously suppressing her naturally masculine nature. When she met me she was encouraged to express it for the first time. Ever. Eventually she became quite comfortable, and WOW! was she ever butch! Throughout that relationship I was as ignorant as I could be about my own stonefemme boundaries. I suffered from tremendous guilt after she died. Once I found out this very important thing about myself, I decided that it would be a very bad idea to date a non-stone butch because my guilt around her dissatisfaction is still profound. My late partner presented as kinda androgynous when she met me, but the other required elements were in place. Once she was allowed to be butch, it just flowed naturally.

My late gf, (yes, I lost my gf after I lost my partner), had always IDed as butch, and was nearly stone. That was AWESOME! Of course a stone butch leather top a lot like her would be a natural fit for me, but I wouldn't rule out an androgynous lesbian who is stone, because my experience tells me that it could end up working for me.

[Electrocell]

Androgynous -------I'm thinking neither femme or masculine (genderless ). Correct me if I'm wrong . How would you describe androgynous?

[daisyfm]

Originally Posted by ScandalAndy

But how did you know what to expect if not all stone identities encompass the same things? What kind of questions do you ask? Do you ask any questions at all? How could you tell you had addressed their desires, how could they tell they had addressed yours? This may sound dumb, but I'm not sure how to accomplish any of that without at least some dialogue.

Andy i wish i could answer this but i can't...all i can say is that i ask about boundaries always. it is important to know about those. i'll be back if i can answer this one day