Reclaiming Lesbian Pride

[dreadgeek]

Originally Posted by apocalipstic

Thank you for answering. I get what you are saying.

Maybe having these discussions makes us feel left out. For myself, maybe I am a bit bitter from all the discussions and expectations over the years.

My question here is....why are we only upset that Butch Lesbians don't feel accepted of like they have a place? I agree 100% its been a problem for a long time (maybe always) and I am not trying to play Opression Olympics.

I want to feel proud.

I don't think we're only upset about it when butch lesbians don't feel accepted or have a place. I think that it is a point of discussion *here* because I think that butch lesbians are the canaries in the lesbian coalmine. The issue is focusing on lesbians and lesbian identity because one would think that on a butch-femme site lesbians would at least feel welcome and not feel like interlopers.

Cheers
Aj

[BullDog]

One other quick thought on the issue of appropriation. I think lesbian is still often quite the dirty word in BF circles so I don't see those who don't really identify as one wanting to appropriate it. I don't see that as a real problem. Maybe I am missing something.

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by BullDog

One other quick thought on the issue of appropriation. I think lesbian is still often quite the dirty word in BF circles so I don't see those who don't really identify as one wanting to appropriate it. I don't see that as a real problem. Maybe I am missing something.

Is Dis-appropriating a word?

[Medusa]

Originally Posted by BullDog

One other quick thought on the issue of appropriation. I think lesbian is still often quite the dirty word in BF circles so I don't see those who don't really identify as one wanting to appropriate it. I don't see that as a real problem. Maybe I am missing something.

Yes! Way back when I joined the Dash site in 1999 I remember a discussion that went on for several weeks about how the Butch/Femme dance and "Lesbianism" were 2 different things based on our brand of power exchange.

I don't think it's so far out in space that there has existed a historical rift in the identity politics of Lesbians and people who only identify as Butch or Femme. Given the history of how some Butches and Femmes have felt marginalized in Lesbian communities, I can see why some folks would shrug off a Lesbian identity.

In my head, Lesbians are women who fuck and are attracted to other women. Sometimes it's also a political identity that has nothing to do with sex but mostly does encompass attraction between women. In my head, it is redundant on a Butch/Femme website to have a "Lesbian" zone unless that Lesbian zone is being parsed out for politics sake. I have said multiple times, this entire website is a Lesbian zone.

I get the desire for women to have space that is women-oriented. I get the desire to have space that is specifically designed to house Lesbian issues. I support that!

I think that Butch/Femme identity politics have evolved over the years and we are a decidedly more Queer space than we were back in the 50's. I don't think that's a bad thing. I also don't think it's a bad thing to keep hold of that sacred space for women-centric, women-defined, women-governed space. (not only "not a bad thing" but deeply necessary)

[Apocalipstic]

Originally Posted by dreadgeek

I don't think we're only upset about it when butch lesbians don't feel accepted or have a place. I think that it is a point of discussion *here* because I think that butch lesbians are the canaries in the lesbian coalmine. The issue is focusing on lesbians and lesbian identity because one would think that on a butch-femme site lesbians would at least feel welcome and not feel like interlopers.

Cheers
Aj

Laugh....yes, one would think that...but it continues to be an issue for all of us!

It has always been a shock to me that being a Butch or Femme Lesbian is so out on the lunatic fringe.

I need to really work on reclaiming my joy.