Obama's Public Support of Michael Vick

[The_Lady_Snow]

Netflix is streaming Michael Vick's show called:

The Michael Vick Project



He was once the highest paid NFL star in history. He lost it all when he was convicted of bank rolling a dog fighting ring out of his own house. After two years in federal prison and losing everything he had, Michael Vick will attempt to make his way back as a football player, family man & role model

[J. Mason]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Netflix is streaming Michael Vick's show called:

The Michael Vick Project



He was once the highest paid NFL star in history. He lost it all when he was convicted of bank rolling a dog fighting ring out of his own house. After two years in federal prison and losing everything he had, Michael Vick will attempt to make his way back as a football player, family man & role model

This makes me sick to my stomach I can't believe he has his own show.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Originally Posted by J. Mason

This makes me sick to my stomach I can't believe he has his own show.

Yeah that's how I feel about the Anthony woman who killed her kid yet got no time, she's free yet everyone forgot about her.

He's done his time, he too should get a second chance.

[J. Mason]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Yeah that's how I feel about the Anthony woman who killed her kid yet got no time, she's free yet everyone forgot about her.

He's done his time, he too should get a second chance.

Yeah I don't like the idea of Casey Anthony going free but I do not believe in second chances for what either of them did. But that is just me.

[dykeumentary]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

He's done his time, he too should get a second chance.

Hell yes! If white America is still angry with a Black man after he served the sentence assigned to his crime,

White america can see this as an example of it's racism (i.e. Black men are not redeemable)

And/or

Outraged people need to be visible in participating more fully in their judicial/sentencing system. I'd like to see who they are, and participation in developing community standards is a valuable process.

And so much more.

[suebee]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Yeah that's how I feel about the Anthony woman who killed her kid yet got no time, she's free yet everyone forgot about her.

He's done his time, he too should get a second chance.

I just wanted to repeat what has already been said earlier in the thread, just for precisions sake: Vick did time for bankrolling a dogfighting operation. He entered into a plea bargain to avoid having to plea on animal cruelty charges. In so doing, the evidence in regards to what actually happened to those animals was never entered into the public record.

Sue

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by suebee

I just wanted to repeat what has already been said earlier in the thread, just for precisions sake: Vick did time for bankrolling a dogfighting operation. He entered into a plea bargain to avoid having to plea on animal cruelty charges. In so doing, the evidence in regards to what actually happened to those animals was never entered into the public record.

Sue

What's your point? I can tell you exactly what happened to those dogs......almost anyone can.

[The_Lady_Snow]

Yanno he could of served 20 years and I'm sure that STILL wouldn't of been enough, I stand by firmly in what I will ALWAYS say: had it been some white football player raping a woman this would of never happened OH WAIT it happens ALL the fucking time and I zero ZERO picketing, screaming, PETA or anyone calling out those injustices Vick on the other hand CONTINUES to be vilified, picketed, screamed at hell his very death in this thread was called for.

Somewhere somehow the value of animals now out trumps that of women and children.

[EnderD_503]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Yanno he could of served 20 years and I'm sure that STILL wouldn't of been enough[...]

Sorry for snipping the post, but just to tag on to that: And that's the thing. What do people think would be achieved with him serving a longer sentence, being banished from the NFL and being perpetually shunned?

Instead, he seems, for all intents and purposes, to be a good example of rehabilitation and is doing work in favour of animal rights now. Had he been dealt with in the harsh way that some encourage, none of the above would have occurred and instead he'd be sitting in a jail cell instead of contributing something to society...which he seems to be doing now with his current activism. The whole punishment system is not particularly productive or socially progressive.

On a side note on the subject of PETA and sexism, I never fail to chuckle when it comes to PETA expressing outrage about any rights issue...coming from the organization that frequently objectifies women in order to get more hits on their website (Seriously, how many times are they going to pull the PETA porn site thing to try to pull in more male supporters? Pathetic, imo), I'm not sure how they expect to be taken seriously. I think for these extremists (and they really are...I don't think any credible animal rights activist should be taking them seriously) animal rights trump everyone's rights (zomg, Obama swatted a fly!).

That said, I'm not sure it should be turned into an issue of women's/children's rights vs. animal rights because...it really shouldn't come down to that. It shouldn't have to do with one rights issue vs. other rights issues, but that the public begin valuing women's/children's rights more than they currently do. Animal rights, unfortunately, sometimes come off as the token "good deed" for the middle and upper classes, much like donating to bogus charities they believe are actually making a difference for famine or disaster-struck nations (which in many cases, the money doesn't even get there). But it's a "feel good" for them.

The public should simply become more aware of the grave and manifold injustices taking place in these cases: for example Vick's case not being simply about animal rights, but also about racism, marginalization and prisoner rehabilitation/rights. And the ability of the public to look at how similar outcries don't always occur as far as well-known rapists (unless some grizzly murder is involved, it would seem), and other discriminatory issues that occur there. I think a big part of it is people being too lazy to change their own knee-jerk reactions to things, and so they pass them off as "not really racist/sexist/etc./everybody does it" and how that helps perpetuate racism and sexism in the modern west.

[J. Mason]

Originally Posted by Toughy

What's your point? I can tell you exactly what happened to those dogs......almost anyone can.

Some went to a rehab and some were put down, he hung one from a tree as well, I think its public record if there is research done.

[suebee]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Yeah that's how I feel about the Anthony woman who killed her kid yet got no time, she's free yet everyone forgot about her.

[He's done his time, he too should get a second chance.

QUOTE=suebee;425403]I just wanted to repeat what has already been said earlier in the thread, just for precisions sake: Vick did time for bankrolling a dogfighting operation. He entered into a plea bargain to avoid having to plea on animal cruelty charges. In so doing, the evidence in regards to what actually happened to those animals was never entered into the public record.

Sue[/QUOTE]

Originally Posted by Toughy

What's your point? I can tell you exactly what happened to those dogs......almost anyone can.

My point was really simple Toughy. It was in answer to Snowy's comment that "he's done his time". He agreed to plead guilty to bankrolling a dog fighting operation to AVOID being tried for the animal abuse charge. You and I may know what happen to those dogs. But I doubt that everybody does. That was the point of avoiding a trial. The violence and cruelty that was shown by Vick and others is horrendous. It was strategic on his part to plead guilty to a crime that would seem less offensive.

Here's what I agree with: Others are guilty of equally horrendous cries or worse and get away with it. They may not be stigmatized as much as Vick, may even go free - and yes, race has always got to be considered a mitigating factor.

Here's what I'm feeling in this thread: As laudible as his anti-dog fighting efforts may be, he inflicted horrendous suffering on those animals. Neither his community service nor the racial aspect of unequal justice for people of colour changes that. I'm involved in animal rescue on a regular basis, and when I hear Vick's name there are some pretty fucking awful images that come into my mind. That probably isn't the case for everyone, but is is for me and most of the people I spend time with. I just feel that the victims of this case are being pretty much forgotten. I don't want to hear that they're "just dogs", or that they're not equal to humans. I don't think that mattered a damn to them when they were suffering.

I'm not really interested in starting a big conversation on the topic. I seem to be one of the few that has participated on this thread that is of this mindset. I'm just responding to Toughy's question.

Sue

[The_Lady_Snow]

So how long should he be reminded over and over and over and over of what he did? Cause what he's trying to do now and being honest about it isn't good enough, what would be a good way to solve this for you sue? What would be a proper punishment that would make you feel the victims were *vindicated*?


I am fully aware of what the charges were and that he got lesser charges, I am going to assume he was offered that if he cooperated with authorities that's how it tends to work in our system, so should he spend more time in jail because some people feel he should? Should he not entered a plea bargain if it was given to him?

How much more do you want him to pay? You seem to avoid that question..

[purepisces]

Originally Posted by suebee

QUOTE=suebee

I just feel that the victims of this case are being pretty much forgotten. I don't want to hear that they're "just dogs", or that they're not equal to humans. I don't think that mattered a damn to them when they were suffering.

Sue[/COLOR][/SIZE][/FONT][/I][/B]

Suebee-I had to clip this little bit of your post, because I want you to know that you are not alone in this! I feel the exact same way. As I've said before, violence is violence; torture is torture regardless of who is on the receiving end. I can see no reason why there is a need to "rank" suffering. I do see a need to speak out for the innocent and the voiceless.

I have great respect for you and the work that you do with animals.

[suebee]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

Tell you what I will answer your question when you answer ours..

What would be an a good enough punishment for Vick?

You seem to have skipped over that particular question as well, as for ignoring this I am not advocating his heinous crimes, but I sure damn well am not gonna sit here quietly and watch the grossness that has happened in this thread and if you say that grossness has not happened I will point each and everyone out.

Originally Posted by suebee

I've never spoken to the criminal punishment for several reasons: I don't believe it works, and for crimes such as animal abuse I don't think it comes close to changing something. There has to be a change in attitude - in core belief systems, before somebody gets it. I'm not judge or jury. I'd hate to be involved in the process because it's a system that is so far out of date, and continues because we as a society feel that we have to see something DONE. It's almost a moot point in my opinion, except some people actually NEED to be locked up for the protection of others.

Of course Vick was in prison for bankrolling dog fights, NOT animal abuse. But the fact that he never admitted to animal abuse during the trial process - and I read that the judge was actually harder on him because of his lack of apparent remorse - is easy to understand in that he grew up in that culture, and hadn't yet come to terms with the absolute horror of his actions.

I read the blog, and that's EXACTLY what *I* needed to hear from him. I asked several times if anybody had seen him apologize - thanks for finally posting it.

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

So how long should he be reminded over and over and over and over of what he did? Cause what he's trying to do now and being honest about it isn't good enough, what would be a good way to solve this for you sue? What would be a proper punishment that would make you feel the victims were *vindicated*?


I am fully aware of what the charges were and that he got lesser charges, I am going to assume he was offered that if he cooperated with authorities that's how it tends to work in our system, so should he spend more time in jail because some people feel he should? Should he not entered a plea bargain if it was given to him?

How much more do you want him to pay? You seem to avoid that question..

Originally Posted by suebee

QUOTE=suebee;425403]I just wanted to repeat what has already been said earlier in the thread, just for precisions sake: Vick did time for bankrolling a dogfighting operation. He entered into a plea bargain to avoid having to plea on animal cruelty charges. In so doing, the evidence in regards to what actually happened to those animals was never entered into the public record.

Sue

My point was really simple Toughy. It was in answer to Snowy's comment that "he's done his time". He agreed to plead guilty to bankrolling a dog fighting operation to AVOID being tried for the animal abuse charge. You and I may know what happen to those dogs. But I doubt that everybody does. That was the point of avoiding a trial. The violence and cruelty that was shown by Vick and others is horrendous. It was strategic on his part to plead guilty to a crime that would seem less offensive.

Here's what I agree with: Others are guilty of equally horrendous cries or worse and get away with it. They may not be stigmatized as much as Vick, may even go free - and yes, race has always got to be considered a mitigating factor.

Here's what I'm feeling in this thread: As laudible as his anti-dog fighting efforts may be, he inflicted horrendous suffering on those animals. Neither his community service nor the racial aspect of unequal justice for people of colour changes that. I'm involved in animal rescue on a regular basis, and when I hear Vick's name there are some pretty fucking awful images that come into my mind. That probably isn't the case for everyone, but is is for me and most of the people I spend time with. I just feel that the victims of this case are being pretty much forgotten. I don't want to hear that they're "just dogs", or that they're not equal to humans. I don't think that mattered a damn to them when they were suffering.

I'm not really interested in starting a big conversation on the topic. I seem to be one of the few that has participated on this thread that is of this mindset. I'm just responding to Toughy's question.

Sue[/QUOTE]

I haven't avoided anything Snowy. As a matter of fact we had this EXACT conversation months ago, when the thread first came up. Your question at the top of this post. My answer in red. Again you ask the question (in blue) MY point is in pink. Snowy. I answered you once on the question of sentencing. I'll answer again in a different way. YOU are concerned with the sentencing and all of the issues around that. MY point - and if you want you can read through all of my old posts to verify - has ALWAYS been about the dogs. I could give a shit about the sentencing. It's not my country. It's not my judicial system. The dogs however..... there is an international animal rights movement of which I consider myself a part of. That's what I am talking about. The animals. If you want to ask me a question about that - an honest question - I'll try to answer. If you want to talk about sentencing, there are plenty of folks here who are interested in talking about that aspect.

No disrespect - no pissiness on my part. Just an honest answer to your question.

Respectfully,
Sue

[The_Lady_Snow]

He's admitted what he's done to them animals in detail, he's not hiding it, he's continuing to educate that's what I see him doing for those dogs and dogs now. I can't imagine it's easy having to look deep and see what a douche bag you were, my hope is he continues being honest, paying it forward, talking to kids and one day he's forgiven for fucking up really bad he's a young guy he can make a difference. You can only beat a man/woman down so much before they begin to wonder WTF..

Oh and yes the firefighter in Ohio wanted to go on vacation so he killed his dogs and bragged about it to his buddies...

[SoNotHer]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I can't imagine it's easy having to look deep and see what a douche bag you were, my hope is he continues being honest, paying it forward, talking to kids and one day he's forgiven for fucking up really bad he's a young guy he can make a difference..

Agreed. With great power and opportunity comes great responsibility. He's in a position to make a change and symbolize that change.

And of the firefighter who wanted to go on vacation, or the man who I saw in a recent news video left his two five-month old puppies caged in a house to die rather than adopt them out (and he knew folks would have taken them) all I can say is that I hope they never have another pet and that there's some justice somewhere along the day.

[Toughy]

Originally Posted by J. Mason

This makes me sick to my stomach I can't believe he has his own show.

I'm very happy he has his own show. He has been working hard (in partnership with the Humane Society and others) across the country to end dog fighting. This show sounds like it will be another way for him to get the message of redemption and forgiveness out to others.

People can and do change. Vick deserves praise for what he is now doing.