OCCUPY WALL STREET

[theoddz]

Originally Posted by JAGG

How did I guess somehow Id be misuderstood. Taken out of context etc... I have plenty of epathy. And I also would give the shirt off my back to a total stranger and have, and would do it everyday gladly. I never expect anyone to do anything I wouldn't do myself. I have sevral very close family members who are disabled . I have plenty of epathy. I know exactly how it feels to lose everythng and have to start again. I have done twice in my life. I feel if you are in a situation because of your own laziness or poor choices or stupidity and then want to be bailed out I am totally 100 percent against that and always will be. If something happens to you which is not your fault, totally out of your control hell ya we should have programs in place to help you.

Brother, I see your point entirely, but I also see how reality works for many folks, too. I'm not going to pick you apart for your view.

I think what it all boils down to is this. Most folks make choices based on the best they can do, at the time they have to do it in, with what they have to work with. Sometimes, a person can't always make the "best" choice that another person would agree with. Most of the time, it's entirely dependent on what you have to work with that your choices hinge on. There have been times in my life when I've had to make some rather unsavory choices, and perhaps someone else might have viewed what I chose to be a "wrong" choice, but I had nothing else to work with and few options to choose from. I ended up making a few choices that I didn't even agree with, and would have rather *not* done, ordinarily, but I did what I felt I had to do, with what I had to work with.

I think there are a lot of folks out there who are in some pretty desperate situations, and none of their options are what those of us, viewing it from the outside, would choose, but it is what it is for these folks. Who judges another's choices from the outside?? How do we fairly do that?? How do we know what another's priorities are in their situations?? We don't. We've *all* had tough times, at one time or another. It's the human experience.

Sometimes I shake my head when I see someone do something that I, personally, might think as being a "bad choice", but I seldom am in a position to know exactly what that person's situation is, and what their options truly are. For instance, as someone who has never had children of my own (because I didn't *choose* to have them), I could look at someone with 2-5 kids, who is living on $20K/yr (or less), and think to myself "Dayyyum, keep yer legz SHUT!!!", but you know, that person may have, as a priority in their lives, a desire for a (large??) family. Now, some/most of us might see that and think the same thing I think, but the reality for that person with the kids is that family, and having kids is *the* most important thing in their lives. They may or may not have been raised by their parents to have this as their priority, or they may have been raised in a large family with the same mentality. Their take on it is, "We'll have the family we want and we'll somehow make it, the same as my parents did when I was born. We'll get by somehow. We'll make it work." Someone like me, however, sees that as a piss poor choice in life. I don't share those priorities, so I have very little empathy for someone who just keeps "poppin' 'em out" with no idea about how they're going to provide for these kids. Still, do I get to judge?? Do I have a right to condemn?? I don't really care for folks like that to be driving my taxes up with an increased demand on public assistance. On the other hand, I collect disability from the federal government, based on the fact that I developed a severe health problem during my time in military service. Taxpayers pay me a rather good check every month, yet I'm able to still work (and I have a full time job) as I am able to. You know, that fact alone pisses a LOT of folks off. Thing is, they don't see or feel the pain I do as I move through my day with chronic severe pain. I "suck it up" most of the time and I don't complain about it. There's no need to. It is what it is, but I've made a *choice* to keep going and cope with this pain in order to fulfill my own priority of staying "useful" for as long as I can, as much as I can. These other folks who might want to stand in judgment of my choice don't know my personal circumstance, or might not understand my priority of needing to maintain "usefulness" as long as I can. For me, it's not money. My priority is, at the end of the day, what I think of myself. My self esteem is very much linked to my sense of "usefulness". So, who gets to judge me?? Who knows exactly how much I hurt, and what I go through to just be able to live MY priority....my need to be useful?? That's important to me, just as having that big family and "figuring it out as we go/living hand to mouth/living with public assistance". One person's priority might be someone else's view of a "poor choice". Who gets to judge??

I've had this discussion many times, over the years, with folks who have all sorts of different viewpoints. My conclusion is this......none of us have a right to judge others' choices. We're all doing the best we can, with what we have, with what we have to do it with, at the time we have to do it.

My .02

~Theo~

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by theoddz

I've had this discussion many times, over the years, with folks who have all sorts of different viewpoints. My conclusion is this......none of us have a right to judge others' choices. We're all doing the best we can, with what we have, with what we have to do it with, at the time we have to do it.

My .02

~Theo~

I totally hear you Theo; I really do. But isn't there a difference between judging someone's choices and paying for them?

Case in point....the family who owned this house before us.

They bought it 9 years ago, refinanced it five times, took the money and bought boats, 4 wheelers, fishing gear, an RV, cars, etc.

By the time they left, after not making a single mortgage payment in over a year, they owed 3 times what the house could sell for. The bank took the hit...sold it...and now I'm paying that smaller mortgage.

Honestly...their choices. I wouldn't make them. I prefer to keep my living expenses reasonable enough that I could pay them on a bartenders salary because, as you say....we can all be there, or have been there. I've been there. I dug myself into financial holes that took me years to dig out of and cost me dearly. I (mostly) learned my lesson.

So....they can refinance their house, bet on "pie in the sky" real estate speculation, and buy a mountain of toys that I couldn't afford even with the job I have now. When they left, they took the toys. They also stole the solar pool heaters off the roof, but that's another issue. They walked out on about $200,000 in debt....and we are all paying it off for them....while they still have their toys.

That just bothers me, and I don't think it's right.

To Linus' (and others) point...I have no idea how many people in foreclosure were like the previous owners here, and how many got caught in a bad situation they couldn't help....losing a job, health problems, etc. I don't think we should ignore the difference though. No, it's not easy to figure out who deserves help and who doesn't....but dang....I work hard and I can't afford a boat...yet the previous owners of this house still have one, while we all pay the higher fees and interest that the bank will be charging for years to make back that $200,000.

[Linus]

Originally Posted by JustJo

I totally hear you Theo; I really do. But isn't there a difference between judging someone's choices and paying for them?

Case in point....the family who owned this house before us.

They bought it 9 years ago, refinanced it five times, took the money and bought boats, 4 wheelers, fishing gear, an RV, cars, etc.

By the time they left, after not making a single mortgage payment in over a year, they owed 3 times what the house could sell for. The bank took the hit...sold it...and now I'm paying that smaller mortgage.

Honestly...their choices. I wouldn't make them. I prefer to keep my living expenses reasonable enough that I could pay them on a bartenders salary because, as you say....we can all be there, or have been there. I've been there. I dug myself into financial holes that took me years to dig out of and cost me dearly. I (mostly) learned my lesson.

So....they can refinance their house, bet on "pie in the sky" real estate speculation, and buy a mountain of toys that I couldn't afford even with the job I have now. When they left, they took the toys. They also stole the solar pool heaters off the roof, but that's another issue. They walked out on about $200,000 in debt....and we are all paying it off for them....while they still have their toys.

That just bothers me, and I don't think it's right.

To Linus' (and others) point...I have no idea how many people in foreclosure were like the previous owners here, and how many got caught in a bad situation they couldn't help....losing a job, health problems, etc. I don't think we should ignore the difference though. No, it's not easy to figure out who deserves help and who doesn't....but dang....I work hard and I can't afford a boat...yet the previous owners of this house still have one, while we all pay the higher fees and interest that the bank will be charging for years to make back that $200,000.

Like you, I would pay off the house and not refinance it. If I wanted a boat (not that I would) I would save and pay for that separately. The thing is I wonder how many cases are like yours versus those who wanted a house, got one that was within their price range (and didn't go for extravagant "extras" in life) and then got smacked by the recession. But right now, we're not even helping those who fit the latter situation. That is what the biggest challenges is right now. Because of the former (the person who spent well beyond their means during times of good and didn't prepare for the worst) everyone is being thrown under the bus.

As for the differences (unless this has changed), I know in Canada if you quit your job and there is no justifiable reason for it (e.g., health, wanting to do a significant career change, etc.) you don't get employment insurance. That said, I do believe that basic health care (e.g., to cover things like accidents, etc.) should be available. A healthy workforce and a reduction in stress makes for a far happier workforce.


As a tangent, my biggest beef right now is the banks charging rates well above those of those cheque cashing places. For all intents and purposes, banks are a form of legalized loan sharks. Interest rates are at less than 1% and mortgages are less than 4% (for 30 years). And yet, credit cards have fees that range from 25%+. I've never missed a payment and always pay more than minimum and yet, it got raised (I argued it back down but seriously!)

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by Linus

Like you, I would pay off the house and not refinance it. If I wanted a boat (not that I would) I would save and pay for that separately. The thing is I wonder how many cases are like yours versus those who wanted a house, got one that was within their price range (and didn't go for extravagant "extras" in life) and then got smacked by the recession. But right now, we're not even helping those who fit the latter situation. That is what the biggest challenges is right now. Because of the former (the person who spent well beyond their means during times of good and didn't prepare for the worst) everyone is being thrown under the bus.

As for the differences (unless this has changed), I know in Canada if you quit your job and there is no justifiable reason for it (e.g., health, wanting to do a significant career change, etc.) you don't get employment insurance. That said, I do believe that basic health care (e.g., to cover things like accidents, etc.) should be available. A healthy workforce and a reduction in stress makes for a far happier workforce.


As a tangent, my biggest beef right now is the banks charging rates well above those of those cheque cashing places. For all intents and purposes, banks are a form of legalized loan sharks. Interest rates are at less than 1% and mortgages are less than 4% (for 30 years). And yet, credit cards have fees that range from 25%+. I've never missed a payment and always pay more than minimum and yet, it got raised (I argued it back down but seriously!)

Totally and absolutely agree....and that's one of the most frustrating things (to me) in this whole situation. People who got lied to by predatory lenders, people who lost their job and got caught in a market with no jobs to be had....they're all suffering because so many speculators got greedy and then called foul.

And...yea....me too on the credit card thing. Frustrating as hell.

Banks, I believe, need some serious regulation....and we need to organize a heck of a lot more credit unions that are non-profits, run cooperatively by members, who keep the costs of borrowing down. Banks, as they exist now, ARE loan sharks in my view...and it's disgusting.

[Dude]

JAGG,

Poor choices?
Maybe I should have refused a severance package from my teamster
job and maybe one day they would have eventually called me back.
Which would have been great had they called me in for 4 hours of
work because I would then be paid for 40 hours .The weeks they don't call you in,
you get nothing.

Starting over today is not like it was ,starting over 5 or 10 years ago,
I can assure you of that .

At 45 ,I may have been hired for jobs that now wont hire a 50 year old.
I will be fine .I know this somehow but there are people out there who
are 60 and people with less skills who wont be hired for anything but
part time minimum wage jobs (if they find work at all)
They drive a hooptie and decide feeding
their kids takes priority over fucking car insurance. I agree with them,it is.

It's like having no compassion for someone with a back injury until you
have one yourself ,its impossible to really relate maybe until you live it.

It's very easy to judge poor people until you become one.
I used to do the exact same thing maybe not to the level of
your recent posts but close.

[The_Lady_Snow]

I often wonder why women get that whole keep your legs shut cast on them when they have more than the "right" amount of kids, why doesn't the other person HELPING make these children get told wrap that dick in a knot?? Why do we as women get shit upon over and over for giving birth to a child that was not a fucking immaculate conception.

FFS check your sexism and mysoginy at the fucking front door..

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by The_Lady_Snow

I often wonder why women get that whole keep your legs shut cast on them when they have more than the "right" amount of kids, why doesn't the other person HELPING make these children get told wrap that dick in a knot?? Why do we as women get shit upon over and over for giving birth to a child that was not a fucking immaculate conception.

Exactly. As the mother of one, whose father has fought paying child support since day one, and hasn't currently paid a dime in 2-1/2 years.....amen.

The packet of information is being put together now for child support enforcement...and no doubt he'll squeal when he has his tax returns taken, wages garnisheed, drivers license and passport pulled if he doesn't comply, etc. No doubt, I'll be the greedy bitch and he'll tell everyone how unfairly he's being treated. He'll try to play the victim in all of this.

What he'll ignore is the total responsibility I've taken for the last 14 years of food, allowances, clothes, housing, medical insurance, dental bills, college fund, glasses every year, school incidentals, vacations, etc.

No doubt he'll consider it horribly unfair. Poor baby.

Having children is a huge responsibility...on the part of both parents.

[theoddz]

Oh, wait a sec and let me clarify this.....

I didn't mean that *I* would look at someone and think "Keep yer legz shut". I was, well, using "myself" in the vernacular way, to illustrate how I've heard people talk about that kind of a situation. To further clarify *my* own personal point of view, birth control is, to my knowledge, available for both males and females. I certainly don't believe that women should bear the brunt of pregnancy prevention over the responsibility of men to do the same thing!!! I think it's a matter of personal responsibility for both, in the issue of consensual sexual relations!!

You know, I just try to not take an opinion when I see what I perceive to be gross irresponsibility in a person's choices. I don't walk in their shoes, so I don't think I get to judge, because just looking from the outside at a stranger (say, in the grocery store) I don't know their circumstance, or their priorities in life. I am, however, *very* human and I have to catch myself from making judgments. I'll own that!!! I just don't think that's always fair to do that to everyone who makes what I think is a poor choice.

Oh no, birth control is *everyone's* responsibility. Now, things like rape and such are a totally different matter.....entirely different.

~Theo~

[weatherboi]

Most people in this country who are under water or are in foreclosure are so because of criminally over inflated market values, predatory mortgages and unethical credit card companies. All mostly directed by banks, mortgage companies, and their regulators. People were given the illusion that they were living within their means by people throwing misinformation in their faces about the state of our lands market values. I bought my house at peak market value in foreclosure. It is now worth less than that foreclosure price. That is under water and a bad investment on the banks part...not mine. I love my house but if I am overpaying for it what is the point??? The market may never bounce back to what it was. Many other fiscally responsible people have chosen to walk away because of this and I think about it too.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Most people in this country who are under water or are in foreclosure are so because of criminally over inflated market values, predatory mortgages and unethical credit card companies. All mostly directed by banks, mortgage companies, and their regulators. People were given the illusion that they were living within their means by people throwing misinformation in their faces about the state of our lands market values. I bought my house at peak market value in foreclosure. It is now worth less than that foreclosure price. That is under water and a bad investment on the banks part...not mine. I love my house but if I am overpaying for it what is the point??? The market may never bounce back to what it was. Many other fiscally responsible people have chosen to walk away because of this and I think about it too.

This is absolutely true for a lot of people. I also wonder though about where we draw the line on believing the banks and credit card companies.

Every time I've gone to the bank for pre-approval on a mortgage, they've approved me for about double the amount that I personally felt comfortable paying and knew I could afford.

Is that their responsibility or mine?

Maybe what we need is to have more heavily regulated truth in lending, and more education about personal finances and money management in the schools. Just thinking aloud here....not really having an answer.

I understand the feeling of "screw this, I'm never going to get even on this mortgage" and the urge to walk away on the part of people who bought at the peak of the market. But what about those (like this house's previous owners) who bought low, refinanced like mad to play, and then walked away?

For me, those are two very different scenarios.

ETA: Grant, I totally agree with one thing you mentioned and then forgot to include it
In my opinion, the biggest speculators in this real estate disaster were the banks. They made loans that were absolutely ridiculously inflated, and fed the real estate bubble all along. They, of all people, should have known better....and been saner...in both the amounts they loaned on property, and on the types of loans they made.

[theoddz]

Originally Posted by JustJo

This is absolutely true for a lot of people. I also wonder though about where we draw the line on believing the banks and credit card companies.

Every time I've gone to the bank for pre-approval on a mortgage, they've approved me for about double the amount that I personally felt comfortable paying and knew I could afford.

Is that their responsibility or mine?

Maybe what we need is to have more heavily regulated truth in lending, and more education about personal finances and money management in the schools. Just thinking aloud here....not really having an answer.

I understand the feeling of "screw this, I'm never going to get even on this mortgage" and the urge to walk away on the part of people who bought at the peak of the market. But what about those (like this house's previous owners) who bought low, refinanced like mad to play, and then walked away?

For me, those are two very different scenarios.

ETA: Grant, I totally agree with one thing you mentioned and then forgot to include it
In my opinion, the biggest speculators in this real estate disaster were the banks. They made loans that were absolutely ridiculously inflated, and fed the real estate bubble all along. They, of all people, should have known better....and been saner...in both the amounts they loaned on property, and on the types of loans they made.

Jo, I'm in total agreement with you on the fact that I think that too many people, in general, don't know enough about how to use money, and how financial matters work, like loans, interest, etc. Spending money is a huge emotional issue for many. How many times have we seen people refer to spending money for emotional reasons call it "retail therapy"??

As a post-Greatest Generation group of Boomers, Gen X'ers, Gen Y'ers, etc., we're used to "good times" and all of these wonderfully new gadgets, gizmos, cell phones, IPads, E-Readers, whathaveyou. More specifically, we've bought into the idea that we (generic "we") have absolute entitlement to these and that we should have them, even if it means going financially out on a limb for them and buying them with funds we don't have now (the credit card phenomenon)!! The media and sales/marketing has conditioned us to believe that. It's been pushed on us. At the same time, no one has really taught us, as a group, how money works. I recently read the book, "Rich Dad/Poor Dad" and it really hit me how even the best and most money-savy of our parents/elders never really taught us how to handle money responsibly. Oh yes, I think we've all gotten such vague direction as "don't spend more than you make", and "pay your bills on time" and, "save your money", but how many people here have honestly been taught, by their parents, or even their educational systems, how to buy a house?? What about how interest actually works, and what the various types of loans are out there?? How many people, before they entered those mortgage contracts that were sold to them by predatory lenders, took the trouble to educate themselves about the home buying process?? Did anyone ever teach these same folks to sit down with a pencil and paper (and a calculator) to do simple addition and subtraction so they could figure out for themselves how much they could spend and how much they should save?? How about figuring out a simple household budget?? Not many, let me tell you.

Money matters have gotten far more complicated, over the years, and education about these things just hasn't happened. That's how we've all been hoodwinked. If you dumb people down, you can take advantage of them. Simple as that. This is one big thing I am so angry about, in recent years. This country has been systematically dismantling our educational system and it's been happening right under our noses, while we're distracted with games, gadgets, television, too damned much entertainment and too few useful financial education programs in our schools. Does anyone remember the old Economics classes we used to have in the 60's, 70's and 80's?? Those have gone nearly entirely away. Those classes, for those who can't remember them, and those who never heard of them, were the ones that taught us how to balance a checkbook, how to make a simple household budget and how to calculate interest and use a basic expenses spreadsheet. We're just not teaching our kids these skills anymore and now an entire generation(s) has been the victim, wholesale, of financial swindling. This is criminal, but we allowed it to happen!!!!! No fucking wonder our children are afraid to face the world when they graduate from our high schools these days!!! Where is the fucking outrage???

This entire financial crisis, worldwide, is the simple result of our being completely and totally distracted by the commercial world, while the carpet was slowly being yanked out from under us. We let it happen.

IMHO, there's nothing left to do now but revolt.

I think another American Revolution is on the new horizon.

~Theo~

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Most people in this country who are under water or are in foreclosure are so because of criminally over inflated market values, predatory mortgages and unethical credit card companies. All mostly directed by banks, mortgage companies, and their regulators. People were given the illusion that they were living within their means by people throwing misinformation in their faces about the state of our lands market values. I bought my house at peak market value in foreclosure. It is now worth less than that foreclosure price. That is under water and a bad investment on the banks part...not mine. I love my house but if I am overpaying for it what is the point??? The market may never bounce back to what it was. Many other fiscally responsible people have chosen to walk away because of this and I think about it too.

Exactly!

I am a home owner and luckily not on a mortgage trap, however in 2008 I had a difficult time and was late on credit cards or other financed items. Instead of working with me they increased my interest to 28%! I'm not kidding!

I know at least a dozen people personally who have walked away from their homes and these are people with good jobs or at least they once had great jobs.

Financial institutions need to be accountable now or people will continue to take action. Protesting is only level one. Many are closing bank accounts and moving to credit unions. I'm using more cash these days. I think its about time

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by Sachita

Exactly!

I am a home owner and luckily not on a mortgage trap, however in 2008 I had a difficult time and was late on credit cards or other financed items. Instead of working with me they increased my interest to 28%! I'm not kidding!

I know at least a dozen people personally who have walked away from their homes and these are people with good jobs or at least they once had great jobs.

Financial institutions need to be accountable now or people will continue to take action. Protesting is only level one. Many are closing bank accounts and moving to credit unions. I'm using more cash these days. I think its about time

We wouldn't be having the debates about, what is personal responsibility, and what is the responsibility of the Gov. if banks would work with their customers .
I always wonder why banks won't work with people in things like not being able to pay their mortgage. If the banks would be more flexible we wouldn't need to set up gov. programs with tax payers money to pay someones mortgage for them.
I know they are a financial institution in business with the purpose of making money. They lose alot of money when a house goes into foreclosure. You would think they would do everything they could to prevent losing so much money everytime. Yet if you fail to make a house payment 3 months in a row (this maybe only in Oklahoma, each state may have different laws) the banks starts automatic foreclosure proceedures. No other option is considered or offered. As if this is the only way . They lose a boat load of money,and the former owner loses . It would be smarter on their part to offer something like, freezing the loan payment for 6 months, and just extending the life of the loan by 6 months. That would give the person time to get back on their feet, or sell the house or find a cheaper place to live,and rent that house out. It would be alot cheaper for the bank to not have a payment for 6 months than it would be to foreclose. That's just one idea. I could think of a hundred.
Of course some things are mandatory and necessary that the gov. handle, and have programs set up for. I don't want everything to be tossed on the gov. shoulders all the time. I want the people to be the answer . I want smaller gov. less taxes and more money for us in our wallets. Less rules, less people breathing down our backs, watching our every move. The more we look to the gov. the more programs they design, the more taxes they need to run the programs. Exactly what I don't want.
We want the gov. to dictate some sort of heath care that's affordable to everyone. That doesn't fix the problem. The hospitals will still be able to overcharge us, pharmaceutical companies will still rip us off , doctors will still over charge. What we really need is the judicial branch of gov. to call the pharmaceutical companies in and investigate why
they are charging 90 dollars a pill when it only costs them 15 cents to produce the pill. Change the laws on generic drugs . Stop allowing them to charge an astronomical amount for something they produce for pennies.
Call the hospital administrators in investigate why they have been over charging people for 70 years. And the same with doctors.
First we need to hold the people who are responsible for the root of the problems accountable, and square them away, so they are taking personal responsiblity for their actions, then set up whatever needs to be done to bridge any existing gaps in the system.

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Most people in this country who are under water or are in foreclosure are so because of criminally over inflated market values, predatory mortgages and unethical credit card companies. All mostly directed by banks, mortgage companies, and their regulators. People were given the illusion that they were living within their means by people throwing misinformation in their faces about the state of our lands market values. I bought my house at peak market value in foreclosure. It is now worth less than that foreclosure price. That is under water and a bad investment on the banks part...not mine. I love my house but if I am overpaying for it what is the point??? The market may never bounce back to what it was. Many other fiscally responsible people have chosen to walk away because of this and I think about it too.

The numbers of fiscally responsible (and always have been) people that are in this situation that are actually exercising financial prudence with walking out just as you say. I think that they will take the licks of a very poor credit rating over seeing (and feeling the effects of) what began as a solid financial choice fall apart due to unethical and unscrupulous lending practices.

As the mortgage situation began to hit the middle-class (of every color), what was really going on gained clarity. When buying a home, there are many factors that have been "smart thinking" in terms of investment. Everything from paying less per month than renting and having something to show for it as well as more disposable income, income tax deductions for mortgage interest paid that otherwise goes down the drain to just being able to have pets, maybe a garden if that is what you like or space for hobbies, etc. It also was a means to be able to turn equity into retirement funding for many- even at what used to be considered "usual & customary" accumulation of that equity throughout the term of your mortgage (not the criminally inflated rates prior to the bubble bursting). Home ownership is not for everyone, but for many, it was a wise choice.

Being in the situation you describe and watching for the point at which your mortgage goes "upside-down" due to what the entire mortgage/banking/investment industry was doing is just the breaking point for many people. The anger is rising. And it should rise. And we all need to stand together and protest and not distinguish between those that might not have had "perfect" credit rating histories or even cut it a bit too close in trying to own a home. If wages had been increasing at a fair ratio to the
"1%" of the wealthy over the last 3 decade, those people would have been fine and enjoyed the "fruits of their labor" which they deserved like anyone else.

We need to dump the stereotypes of the "sub-prime" mortgagee and take aim at the structures of the real problems that impact us all- shoulder to shoulder. When everyone gets ahead, we all do. One accident or major illness, a child diagnosed with cancer, a parent having a stroke is often the difference for someone going from homeowner one month to foreclosure the next. And that consequence ripples out to us all.

Hell yes, I can see getting to the point of saying the hell with it, I’ll cut my losses and start anew. Eventually, credit scores rise and we can pay down debt. Although, I have to say at the age of 60, I feel that my choices are more limited than someone lets say in their 30’s. They have the time to recoup their losses and start anew.

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Most people in this country who are under water or are in foreclosure are so because of criminally over inflated market values, predatory mortgages and unethical credit card companies. All mostly directed by banks, mortgage companies, and their regulators. People were given the illusion that they were living within their means by people throwing misinformation in their faces about the state of our lands market values. I bought my house at peak market value in foreclosure. It is now worth less than that foreclosure price. That is under water and a bad investment on the banks part...not mine. I love my house but if I am overpaying for it what is the point??? The market may never bounce back to what it was. Many other fiscally responsible people have chosen to walk away because of this and I think about it too.

Sucks weathrboi. I know they are working on trying to set up some sort of lump sum rebate type thing, and maybe even a new loan for what the fair market value of your home actually is now. Some pretty powerful entities are involed in it too. So there is hope but congress and the senate would have to vote on it, so who knows. I'm sure you already know this, just in case you didn't.....

[Diva]

This past Thursday, I went to the Occupy Austin rally with my "pretty sign". (That's what a young woman called it.)

I didn't stay long.....I had never "protested" in my life and it was an odd sensation for me, but I will go back. I was sad that I had missed the march to the downtown Bank Of America, as my sign says "Bank of America: You have less money today....I just closed my account!" I'm sorry they missed that!

I have never been heckled before, but I was on Thursday ~ well not me individually, but You know what I mean. "GET A JOB!" I heard someone scream from their car. It was like a knife in my heart.

It's a sad day when a laid~off teacher inquires about another teaching job, only to hear from a school district, sorry, we're not hiring any music personnel for next year, don't bother to apply.

I'm one of the fortunate ones. I own my home. But I can't afford health insurance and some months, I have to juggle bills. I have 2 part~time jobs at this point, as well as my art.

All of that to say, I am really not complaining......I know ~ I KNOW! ~ I am one of the fortunate members of the 99%. But there are some months that are scarier than others.

EVERY situation is different. So until someone has walked in my shoes ............. or until **I** have walked in someone ELSE'S shoes........ it's best to do the very best I can and just friggin' keep out of the judgemental business. Compassion is a flower that is so often crushed under someone's foot.

I hope that made sense.

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Most people in this country who are under water or are in foreclosure are so because of criminally over inflated market values, predatory mortgages and unethical credit card companies. All mostly directed by banks, mortgage companies, and their regulators. People were given the illusion that they were living within their means by people throwing misinformation in their faces about the state of our lands market values. I bought my house at peak market value in foreclosure. It is now worth less than that foreclosure price. That is under water and a bad investment on the banks part...not mine. I love my house but if I am overpaying for it what is the point??? The market may never bounce back to what it was. Many other fiscally responsible people have chosen to walk away because of this and I think about it too.

Here is a good web-site you can check out.
http://www.makinghomeaffordable.gov/...ages/harp.aspx

[Dominique]

Originally Posted by JAGG

Here is a good web-site you can check out.
http://www.makinghomeaffordable.gov/...ages/harp.aspx

The Making Homes Affordable Act is over. Even after it was given an extension. The rules to qualify were so rigid, only 20% of the people who applied actually qualified. And,
60% of the money made available to help, went unused.

I was trying to find the link. I just read this yesterday. I was quite shocked to read it too. People were calling it the Obama refinance. Basically, lenders were under no obligation to co-operate, so they didn't. More of the same. I'll keep looking for the link

[weatherboi]

Originally Posted by JAGG

Here is a good web-site you can check out.
http://www.makinghomeaffordable.gov/...ages/harp.aspx

my only comment to this plan is it was worthless for most!!!

The point to my post was not that i can't afford it, it is just the opposite.
The housing market has created many negative investments for responsible home owners.

Occupy Jax was successful. Of course there were negative reports about the amount of attendees. One councilman tried to have it moved the day of because it was hosted on in front of city hall. We have a Nor Easter coming through so torrential rain was had.