OCCUPY WALL STREET

[weatherboi]

Most people in this country who are under water or are in foreclosure are so because of criminally over inflated market values, predatory mortgages and unethical credit card companies. All mostly directed by banks, mortgage companies, and their regulators. People were given the illusion that they were living within their means by people throwing misinformation in their faces about the state of our lands market values. I bought my house at peak market value in foreclosure. It is now worth less than that foreclosure price. That is under water and a bad investment on the banks part...not mine. I love my house but if I am overpaying for it what is the point??? The market may never bounce back to what it was. Many other fiscally responsible people have chosen to walk away because of this and I think about it too.

[JustJo]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Most people in this country who are under water or are in foreclosure are so because of criminally over inflated market values, predatory mortgages and unethical credit card companies. All mostly directed by banks, mortgage companies, and their regulators. People were given the illusion that they were living within their means by people throwing misinformation in their faces about the state of our lands market values. I bought my house at peak market value in foreclosure. It is now worth less than that foreclosure price. That is under water and a bad investment on the banks part...not mine. I love my house but if I am overpaying for it what is the point??? The market may never bounce back to what it was. Many other fiscally responsible people have chosen to walk away because of this and I think about it too.

This is absolutely true for a lot of people. I also wonder though about where we draw the line on believing the banks and credit card companies.

Every time I've gone to the bank for pre-approval on a mortgage, they've approved me for about double the amount that I personally felt comfortable paying and knew I could afford.

Is that their responsibility or mine?

Maybe what we need is to have more heavily regulated truth in lending, and more education about personal finances and money management in the schools. Just thinking aloud here....not really having an answer.

I understand the feeling of "screw this, I'm never going to get even on this mortgage" and the urge to walk away on the part of people who bought at the peak of the market. But what about those (like this house's previous owners) who bought low, refinanced like mad to play, and then walked away?

For me, those are two very different scenarios.

ETA: Grant, I totally agree with one thing you mentioned and then forgot to include it
In my opinion, the biggest speculators in this real estate disaster were the banks. They made loans that were absolutely ridiculously inflated, and fed the real estate bubble all along. They, of all people, should have known better....and been saner...in both the amounts they loaned on property, and on the types of loans they made.

[theoddz]

Originally Posted by JustJo

This is absolutely true for a lot of people. I also wonder though about where we draw the line on believing the banks and credit card companies.

Every time I've gone to the bank for pre-approval on a mortgage, they've approved me for about double the amount that I personally felt comfortable paying and knew I could afford.

Is that their responsibility or mine?

Maybe what we need is to have more heavily regulated truth in lending, and more education about personal finances and money management in the schools. Just thinking aloud here....not really having an answer.

I understand the feeling of "screw this, I'm never going to get even on this mortgage" and the urge to walk away on the part of people who bought at the peak of the market. But what about those (like this house's previous owners) who bought low, refinanced like mad to play, and then walked away?

For me, those are two very different scenarios.

ETA: Grant, I totally agree with one thing you mentioned and then forgot to include it
In my opinion, the biggest speculators in this real estate disaster were the banks. They made loans that were absolutely ridiculously inflated, and fed the real estate bubble all along. They, of all people, should have known better....and been saner...in both the amounts they loaned on property, and on the types of loans they made.

Jo, I'm in total agreement with you on the fact that I think that too many people, in general, don't know enough about how to use money, and how financial matters work, like loans, interest, etc. Spending money is a huge emotional issue for many. How many times have we seen people refer to spending money for emotional reasons call it "retail therapy"??

As a post-Greatest Generation group of Boomers, Gen X'ers, Gen Y'ers, etc., we're used to "good times" and all of these wonderfully new gadgets, gizmos, cell phones, IPads, E-Readers, whathaveyou. More specifically, we've bought into the idea that we (generic "we") have absolute entitlement to these and that we should have them, even if it means going financially out on a limb for them and buying them with funds we don't have now (the credit card phenomenon)!! The media and sales/marketing has conditioned us to believe that. It's been pushed on us. At the same time, no one has really taught us, as a group, how money works. I recently read the book, "Rich Dad/Poor Dad" and it really hit me how even the best and most money-savy of our parents/elders never really taught us how to handle money responsibly. Oh yes, I think we've all gotten such vague direction as "don't spend more than you make", and "pay your bills on time" and, "save your money", but how many people here have honestly been taught, by their parents, or even their educational systems, how to buy a house?? What about how interest actually works, and what the various types of loans are out there?? How many people, before they entered those mortgage contracts that were sold to them by predatory lenders, took the trouble to educate themselves about the home buying process?? Did anyone ever teach these same folks to sit down with a pencil and paper (and a calculator) to do simple addition and subtraction so they could figure out for themselves how much they could spend and how much they should save?? How about figuring out a simple household budget?? Not many, let me tell you.

Money matters have gotten far more complicated, over the years, and education about these things just hasn't happened. That's how we've all been hoodwinked. If you dumb people down, you can take advantage of them. Simple as that. This is one big thing I am so angry about, in recent years. This country has been systematically dismantling our educational system and it's been happening right under our noses, while we're distracted with games, gadgets, television, too damned much entertainment and too few useful financial education programs in our schools. Does anyone remember the old Economics classes we used to have in the 60's, 70's and 80's?? Those have gone nearly entirely away. Those classes, for those who can't remember them, and those who never heard of them, were the ones that taught us how to balance a checkbook, how to make a simple household budget and how to calculate interest and use a basic expenses spreadsheet. We're just not teaching our kids these skills anymore and now an entire generation(s) has been the victim, wholesale, of financial swindling. This is criminal, but we allowed it to happen!!!!! No fucking wonder our children are afraid to face the world when they graduate from our high schools these days!!! Where is the fucking outrage???

This entire financial crisis, worldwide, is the simple result of our being completely and totally distracted by the commercial world, while the carpet was slowly being yanked out from under us. We let it happen.

IMHO, there's nothing left to do now but revolt.

I think another American Revolution is on the new horizon.

~Theo~

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Most people in this country who are under water or are in foreclosure are so because of criminally over inflated market values, predatory mortgages and unethical credit card companies. All mostly directed by banks, mortgage companies, and their regulators. People were given the illusion that they were living within their means by people throwing misinformation in their faces about the state of our lands market values. I bought my house at peak market value in foreclosure. It is now worth less than that foreclosure price. That is under water and a bad investment on the banks part...not mine. I love my house but if I am overpaying for it what is the point??? The market may never bounce back to what it was. Many other fiscally responsible people have chosen to walk away because of this and I think about it too.

Exactly!

I am a home owner and luckily not on a mortgage trap, however in 2008 I had a difficult time and was late on credit cards or other financed items. Instead of working with me they increased my interest to 28%! I'm not kidding!

I know at least a dozen people personally who have walked away from their homes and these are people with good jobs or at least they once had great jobs.

Financial institutions need to be accountable now or people will continue to take action. Protesting is only level one. Many are closing bank accounts and moving to credit unions. I'm using more cash these days. I think its about time

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by Sachita

Exactly!

I am a home owner and luckily not on a mortgage trap, however in 2008 I had a difficult time and was late on credit cards or other financed items. Instead of working with me they increased my interest to 28%! I'm not kidding!

I know at least a dozen people personally who have walked away from their homes and these are people with good jobs or at least they once had great jobs.

Financial institutions need to be accountable now or people will continue to take action. Protesting is only level one. Many are closing bank accounts and moving to credit unions. I'm using more cash these days. I think its about time

We wouldn't be having the debates about, what is personal responsibility, and what is the responsibility of the Gov. if banks would work with their customers .
I always wonder why banks won't work with people in things like not being able to pay their mortgage. If the banks would be more flexible we wouldn't need to set up gov. programs with tax payers money to pay someones mortgage for them.
I know they are a financial institution in business with the purpose of making money. They lose alot of money when a house goes into foreclosure. You would think they would do everything they could to prevent losing so much money everytime. Yet if you fail to make a house payment 3 months in a row (this maybe only in Oklahoma, each state may have different laws) the banks starts automatic foreclosure proceedures. No other option is considered or offered. As if this is the only way . They lose a boat load of money,and the former owner loses . It would be smarter on their part to offer something like, freezing the loan payment for 6 months, and just extending the life of the loan by 6 months. That would give the person time to get back on their feet, or sell the house or find a cheaper place to live,and rent that house out. It would be alot cheaper for the bank to not have a payment for 6 months than it would be to foreclose. That's just one idea. I could think of a hundred.
Of course some things are mandatory and necessary that the gov. handle, and have programs set up for. I don't want everything to be tossed on the gov. shoulders all the time. I want the people to be the answer . I want smaller gov. less taxes and more money for us in our wallets. Less rules, less people breathing down our backs, watching our every move. The more we look to the gov. the more programs they design, the more taxes they need to run the programs. Exactly what I don't want.
We want the gov. to dictate some sort of heath care that's affordable to everyone. That doesn't fix the problem. The hospitals will still be able to overcharge us, pharmaceutical companies will still rip us off , doctors will still over charge. What we really need is the judicial branch of gov. to call the pharmaceutical companies in and investigate why
they are charging 90 dollars a pill when it only costs them 15 cents to produce the pill. Change the laws on generic drugs . Stop allowing them to charge an astronomical amount for something they produce for pennies.
Call the hospital administrators in investigate why they have been over charging people for 70 years. And the same with doctors.
First we need to hold the people who are responsible for the root of the problems accountable, and square them away, so they are taking personal responsiblity for their actions, then set up whatever needs to be done to bridge any existing gaps in the system.

[AtLast]

For the life of me, I don't understand why banks don't do exactly what you are talking about- do whatever it takes to keep people in their homes. They are losing so much more in the long run with foreclosures that, many (not all) of which could be "re-tooled" and the bank could break even. So many of the people in foreclosure situations do whatever it takes to get back on track with a reduced house payment because they can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Now, they have to be re-employed, if the main reason they are in this situation is due to job loss, but many people do and will continue to take jobs at less pay in order to save their homes. Eventually, they most likely will either go back to the areas of prior employment or re-train to get ahead in an employment areas that show better promise of a future.

My main thoughts on this actually further than the foreclosure and to the cumulative effects of how seriously the great numbers of foreclosures impact so much more in an already weak economy.

If I had the "magic wand" of forecloserdom, it would be my choice to to put something together for mortgagees that in the end, helps stabilize our economy. In the long run, this stabilization is imperative.

Obviously, I am not an economist! However, there is such a domino-effect when one economic hardship triggers another and when such large numbers of people are having these difficulties at the same time.

Originally Posted by JAGG

We wouldn't be having the debates about, what is personal responsibility, and what is the responsibility of the Gov. if banks would work with their customers .
I always wonder why banks won't work with people in things like not being able to pay their mortgage. If the banks would be more flexible we wouldn't need to set up gov. programs with tax payers money to pay someones mortgage for them.
I know they are a financial institution in business with the purpose of making money. They lose alot of money when a house goes into foreclosure. You would think they would do everything they could to prevent losing so much money everytime. Yet if you fail to make a house payment 3 months in a row (this maybe only in Oklahoma, each state may have different laws) the banks starts automatic foreclosure proceedures. No other option is considered or offered. As if this is the only way . They lose a boat load of money,and the former owner loses . It would be smarter on their part to offer something like, freezing the loan payment for 6 months, and just extending the life of the loan by 6 months. That would give the person time to get back on their feet, or sell the house or find a cheaper place to live,and rent that house out. It would be alot cheaper for the bank to not have a payment for 6 months than it would be to foreclose. That's just one idea. I could think of a hundred.
Of course some things are mandatory and necessary that the gov. handle, and have programs set up for. I don't want everything to be tossed on the gov. shoulders all the time. I want the people to be the answer . I want smaller gov. less taxes and more money for us in our wallets. Less rules, less people breathing down our backs, watching our every move. The more we look to the gov. the more programs they design, the more taxes they need to run the programs. Exactly what I don't want.
We want the gov. to dictate some sort of heath care that's affordable to everyone. That doesn't fix the problem. The hospitals will still be able to overcharge us, pharmaceutical companies will still rip us off , doctors will still over charge. What we really need is the judicial branch of gov. to call the pharmaceutical companies in and investigate why
they are charging 90 dollars a pill when it only costs them 15 cents to produce the pill. Change the laws on generic drugs . Stop allowing them to charge an astronomical amount for something they produce for pennies.
Call the hospital administrators in investigate why they have been over charging people for 70 years. And the same with doctors.
First we need to hold the people who are responsible for the root of the problems accountable, and square them away, so they are taking personal responsiblity for their actions, then set up whatever needs to be done to bridge any existing gaps in the system.

[tapu]

I'm on my little unemployed way today to check out the Occupy Maine protest. Not going to join in necessarily, but I might. Need to scope it out first. And I'm not just going because it's a gloriously sunny Maine Saturday. I want some direct experience.

If there's something to report, I'll report back. Into the fray, the tapu

[AtLast]

http://abcnews.go.com/Business/occup...ry?id=14691330

[Mr.Nobody]

[Sachita]

Originally Posted by AtLastHome

For the life of me, I don't understand why banks don't do exactly what you are talking about- do whatever it takes to keep people in their homes. They are losing so much more in the long run with foreclosures that, many (not all) of which could be "re-tooled" and the bank could break even. So many of the people in foreclosure situations do whatever it takes to get back on track with a reduced house payment because they can see the light at the end of the tunnel. Now, they have to be re-employed, if the main reason they are in this situation is due to job loss, but many people do and will continue to take jobs at less pay in order to save their homes. Eventually, they most likely will either go back to the areas of prior employment or re-train to get ahead in an employment areas that show better promise of a future.

My main thoughts on this actually further than the foreclosure and to the cumulative effects of how seriously the great numbers of foreclosures impact so much more in an already weak economy.

If I had the "magic wand" of forecloserdom, it would be my choice to to put something together for mortgagees that in the end, helps stabilize our economy. In the long run, this stabilization is imperative.

Obviously, I am not an economist! However, there is such a domino-effect when one economic hardship triggers another and when such large numbers of people are having these difficulties at the same time.

actually banks have no choice then to restructure mortgages even for people who didnt qualify or make the deadline for Home Loan Modification programs. In the haze of everything my mortgage company who had just acquired my mortgage mine, after 6 months of screwing up my paperwork and deadlines, defaulted me and tried to get away with it. But luckily for me they record ALL conversations and I kept all documentation. To make a very long story short and threats to sue the fuck out of them they took 20K off my principal and restructured my loan at %5 bringing my payment down $$400.00 a month and this new payment included taxes and insurance! I was one of the lucky ones but that could have gotten away with it had I not fought back. Some people don't fight or understand how to go about it.

In some cases its better to walk away and many did,

[AtLast]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Most people in this country who are under water or are in foreclosure are so because of criminally over inflated market values, predatory mortgages and unethical credit card companies. All mostly directed by banks, mortgage companies, and their regulators. People were given the illusion that they were living within their means by people throwing misinformation in their faces about the state of our lands market values. I bought my house at peak market value in foreclosure. It is now worth less than that foreclosure price. That is under water and a bad investment on the banks part...not mine. I love my house but if I am overpaying for it what is the point??? The market may never bounce back to what it was. Many other fiscally responsible people have chosen to walk away because of this and I think about it too.

The numbers of fiscally responsible (and always have been) people that are in this situation that are actually exercising financial prudence with walking out just as you say. I think that they will take the licks of a very poor credit rating over seeing (and feeling the effects of) what began as a solid financial choice fall apart due to unethical and unscrupulous lending practices.

As the mortgage situation began to hit the middle-class (of every color), what was really going on gained clarity. When buying a home, there are many factors that have been "smart thinking" in terms of investment. Everything from paying less per month than renting and having something to show for it as well as more disposable income, income tax deductions for mortgage interest paid that otherwise goes down the drain to just being able to have pets, maybe a garden if that is what you like or space for hobbies, etc. It also was a means to be able to turn equity into retirement funding for many- even at what used to be considered "usual & customary" accumulation of that equity throughout the term of your mortgage (not the criminally inflated rates prior to the bubble bursting). Home ownership is not for everyone, but for many, it was a wise choice.

Being in the situation you describe and watching for the point at which your mortgage goes "upside-down" due to what the entire mortgage/banking/investment industry was doing is just the breaking point for many people. The anger is rising. And it should rise. And we all need to stand together and protest and not distinguish between those that might not have had "perfect" credit rating histories or even cut it a bit too close in trying to own a home. If wages had been increasing at a fair ratio to the
"1%" of the wealthy over the last 3 decade, those people would have been fine and enjoyed the "fruits of their labor" which they deserved like anyone else.

We need to dump the stereotypes of the "sub-prime" mortgagee and take aim at the structures of the real problems that impact us all- shoulder to shoulder. When everyone gets ahead, we all do. One accident or major illness, a child diagnosed with cancer, a parent having a stroke is often the difference for someone going from homeowner one month to foreclosure the next. And that consequence ripples out to us all.

Hell yes, I can see getting to the point of saying the hell with it, I’ll cut my losses and start anew. Eventually, credit scores rise and we can pay down debt. Although, I have to say at the age of 60, I feel that my choices are more limited than someone lets say in their 30’s. They have the time to recoup their losses and start anew.

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Most people in this country who are under water or are in foreclosure are so because of criminally over inflated market values, predatory mortgages and unethical credit card companies. All mostly directed by banks, mortgage companies, and their regulators. People were given the illusion that they were living within their means by people throwing misinformation in their faces about the state of our lands market values. I bought my house at peak market value in foreclosure. It is now worth less than that foreclosure price. That is under water and a bad investment on the banks part...not mine. I love my house but if I am overpaying for it what is the point??? The market may never bounce back to what it was. Many other fiscally responsible people have chosen to walk away because of this and I think about it too.

Sucks weathrboi. I know they are working on trying to set up some sort of lump sum rebate type thing, and maybe even a new loan for what the fair market value of your home actually is now. Some pretty powerful entities are involed in it too. So there is hope but congress and the senate would have to vote on it, so who knows. I'm sure you already know this, just in case you didn't.....

[Diva]

This past Thursday, I went to the Occupy Austin rally with my "pretty sign". (That's what a young woman called it.)

I didn't stay long.....I had never "protested" in my life and it was an odd sensation for me, but I will go back. I was sad that I had missed the march to the downtown Bank Of America, as my sign says "Bank of America: You have less money today....I just closed my account!" I'm sorry they missed that!

I have never been heckled before, but I was on Thursday ~ well not me individually, but You know what I mean. "GET A JOB!" I heard someone scream from their car. It was like a knife in my heart.

It's a sad day when a laid~off teacher inquires about another teaching job, only to hear from a school district, sorry, we're not hiring any music personnel for next year, don't bother to apply.

I'm one of the fortunate ones. I own my home. But I can't afford health insurance and some months, I have to juggle bills. I have 2 part~time jobs at this point, as well as my art.

All of that to say, I am really not complaining......I know ~ I KNOW! ~ I am one of the fortunate members of the 99%. But there are some months that are scarier than others.

EVERY situation is different. So until someone has walked in my shoes ............. or until **I** have walked in someone ELSE'S shoes........ it's best to do the very best I can and just friggin' keep out of the judgemental business. Compassion is a flower that is so often crushed under someone's foot.

I hope that made sense.

[Dominique]

Originally Posted by Diva

SNIP/SNIP
I didn't stay long.....I had never "protested" in my life and it was an odd sensation for me, but I will go back. I was sad that I had missed the march to the downtown Bank Of America, as my sign says "Bank of America: You have less money today....I just closed my account!" I'm sorry they missed that! WAY TO GO DIVA, I HOPE MORE DO THE SAME!

It's a sad day when a laid~off teacher inquires about another teaching job, only to hear from a school district, sorry, we're not hiring any music personnel for next year, don't bother to apply. As my extreme sport type neighbor, heavily tattooed, year round cargo shorts and van shoes, and I have been painting lawn signs about cuts in education. He is very very disturbed about this. And HE will be at Pgh's version of OCCUPY WALL STREET with me. Anyhow, getting to the point. I was not aware that band was eliminated. BAND (?) Parents are keeping marching band alive by selling everything in the world to raise money, they have two students working on Master Degrees from local universities willing to teach for not much money but the costs are astronomical. It's been decades, I realize this, but BAND. That was a wonderful wonderful opportunity for us, in my high school days, and of course, stage band (concert band) is also gone and this will start all over for him and all of the other parents.
I don't know about you other folks, but BAND was where the fun was at all of the
High School events. Cutting band and Music straight across the board. What Next?

I am one of the fortunate members of the 99%. But there are some months that are scarier than others. You've worked Diva, too long, too hard, to be reduced to saying I'm fortunate to be one of the 99%
This is why it's imperative that we be heard. there are other ways to be heard, as have been listed in this thread. Start closing those accounts, write letters and tell the banks Kiss my ass. Start writing letters to the politicians, tell them you will not re elect them, you'll change parties....(eeeewww, that will get thier attention)

EVERY situation is different. So until someone has walked in my shoes ............. or until **I** have walked in someone ELSE'S shoes........ it's best to do the very best I can and just friggin' keep out of the judgemental business. Compassion is a flower that is so often crushed under someone's foot.

I hope that made sense.

Loud and clear! Thanks Diva, and thank you for *Trying* with your pretty sign, Occupy Wall Street.

[Dominique]

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rep-bernie-sanders


Enjoy!

[UofMfan]

[SoNotHer]

I am actually laughing out loud. Awesome :-)

Originally Posted by UofMfan

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by weatherboi

Most people in this country who are under water or are in foreclosure are so because of criminally over inflated market values, predatory mortgages and unethical credit card companies. All mostly directed by banks, mortgage companies, and their regulators. People were given the illusion that they were living within their means by people throwing misinformation in their faces about the state of our lands market values. I bought my house at peak market value in foreclosure. It is now worth less than that foreclosure price. That is under water and a bad investment on the banks part...not mine. I love my house but if I am overpaying for it what is the point??? The market may never bounce back to what it was. Many other fiscally responsible people have chosen to walk away because of this and I think about it too.

Here is a good web-site you can check out.
http://www.makinghomeaffordable.gov/...ages/harp.aspx

[Dominique]

Originally Posted by JAGG

Here is a good web-site you can check out.
http://www.makinghomeaffordable.gov/...ages/harp.aspx

The Making Homes Affordable Act is over. Even after it was given an extension. The rules to qualify were so rigid, only 20% of the people who applied actually qualified. And,
60% of the money made available to help, went unused.

I was trying to find the link. I just read this yesterday. I was quite shocked to read it too. People were calling it the Obama refinance. Basically, lenders were under no obligation to co-operate, so they didn't. More of the same. I'll keep looking for the link

[JAGG]

Originally Posted by Yellow band

The Making Homes Affordable Act is over. Even after it was given an extension. The rules to qualify were so rigid, only 20% of the people who applied actually qualified. And,
60% of the money made available to help, went unused.

I was trying to find the link. I just read this yesterday. I was quite shocked to read it too. People were calling it the Obama refinance. Basically, lenders were under no obligation to co-operate, so they didn't. More of the same. I'll keep looking for the link

Heard about it on a radio commercial. I thought it was a new program of some kind. Didn't know it was old and useless. Wonder why they keep advertising it?