Labels

[Darth Denkay]

I feel similarly. I appreciate labels for a couple reasons. One, they give me a starting point. They don't map out the whole entity but I've got something to start with. Secondly, my identity allowed myself to find a community, to realize there is a name for someone like me. Butch doesn't box me in - it allows me to be free to be me.

Originally Posted by Metropolis

...on one hand it's is useful to have something to say "in a nutshell this is what I am". Still I don't like the confining feel that comes with them, because whether you like it or not, people are going to use their lens and paint you with their interpretation of your label.

It use to bug the crap out of me... at this point in my life I really don't care as much... I am who I am and those who truly care will take the time to get to know me.

[Diva]

When I first came out, my friends were trying to set me up with one who later became my partner for 8 years.....but when she first saw me, she leaned over to our mutual friend and said, "She's not a lesbian, she's somebody's Mother!"

She got it half right. I like that label, too......

I have evolved since then..... <smile> Though I'm still using the Mom Label.

~Diva

[D-Money]

Originally Posted by Diva

Though I'm still using the Mom Label.

yeah, i hear that one a lot, too ... on days when i'm really lucky!

[Tommi]

Originally Posted by Diva

When I first came out, my friends were trying to set me up with one who later became my partner for 8 years.....but when she first saw me, she leaned over to our mutual friend and said, "She's not a lesbian, she's somebody's Mother!"

She got it half right. I like that label, too......

I have evolved since then..... <smile> Though I'm still using the Mom Label.

~Diva

When I was foot loose and fancy free, I saw the Diva, and did not think of it in that manner.. Maybe Holy Mother of G....Phew..or whose the hot MAMA in town...well, just sayin...that Red Dress

yer lil Punkin

[Diva]

Originally Posted by Tommi

When I was foot loose and fancy free, I saw the Diva, and did not think of it in that manner.. Maybe Holy Mother of G....Phew..or whose the hot MAMA in town...well, just sayin...that Red Dress

yer lil Punkin

What a lovely compliment! Thank You so much, precious Punkin Head!


~Diva (LOVIN' that graphic! I stole it! <giggle> )

[Leigh]

Well you know what they say right?

Labels are for soup cans

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Jackhammer

Looking for a descriptor would be in kind a label, no? .... Yes ?

Originally Posted by BullDog

I certainly don't think of my gender identity as a label. To quote someone from somewhere, labels are for soup cans.

Originally Posted by Braedon

Well you know what they say right?

Labels are for soup cans

But why do soup cans have labels? We all know what a can of soup looks like, right? But it sure is handy to know what flavor (because personally, I'd be pretty pissed if I wanted chicken and stars and got split pea).

On the other hand, I'm not having a conversation with a can of soup where I can learn what it's got going on inside.

Which brings me back to Jack's very pertinent comment. Is a label different than a descriptor? If we describe a man as tall and hairy, is that his label? Seems like he's probably much more than tall/hairy.

One can appear butch (physical descriptor), but not be butch, so how does butch apply as a label? Just as D-Money says by appearance she is sometimes (often?) called "femme," but she says femme is not who/what she is.

Another way to approach it - how does label relate to identity? Personally, I agree with BullDog - I don't see my gender identity as a label.

[D-Money]

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

But why do soup cans have labels? We all know what a can of soup looks like, right? But it sure is handy to know what flavor (because personally, I'd be pretty pissed if I wanted chicken and stars and got split pea).

On the other hand, I'm not having a conversation with a can of soup where I can learn what it's got going on inside.

Which brings me back to Jack's very pertinent comment. Is a label different than a descriptor? If we describe a man as tall and hairy, is that his label? Seems like he's probably much more than tall/hairy.

One can appear butch (physical descriptor), but not be butch, so how does butch apply as a label? Just as D-Money says by appearance she is sometimes (often?) called "femme," but she says femme is not who/what she is.

Another way to approach it - how does label relate to identity? Personally, I agree with BullDog - I don't see my gender identity as a label.

you make some really good points ...

i think there is a definite difference between a label and a descriptor.

we can label someone "butch" ... or we can describe them as "manly", "masculine", etc.

we can label someone "femme" ... or we can describe them as "feminine", "girly", etc.

just because a queer woman is very feminine doesn't make her femme.

[ZoeyJayne]

I got sick of being told that I am this or that.. I just made it wicked easy on everyone i am a desbian... (desiree + lesbian=) I am not changing for anyone or explaining myself for anyone for that matter. Take me or leave me :P

[Gemme]

If we're being very precise, I identify as a Queer Stone Femme Girl. There is an abundant amount of people in this world, in our community and not, that have no idea what that means or even what the individual markers mean to me. Some days I have the patience and desire to educate and some days I don't.

I like labels. They are useful tools, but, like any other tool, they can be used for good and for evil. The value lies within the beholder, I believe.

[Boots13]

Originally Posted by ZoeyJayne

...i am a desbian... (desiree + lesbian=) :P

hmmm, guess this makes me a bootsbian...I'm ok with that!

I dont live my "mainstream" life consistently vocally pushing my sexual, political, moral, or religious identity...well, not as a general practice.
So, while I'm socializing in queer circles how useful is it to know that I id as Butch? I'm partnered, I'm not dating or searching for my "other".
While socializing in hetero circles, how important is it to let people know I id as Butch? While cultivating my career, how important is it to identify to my employer as Butch?

I am searching for kindness, like-hearted people. People who serve their greater community in some capacity. People who care about other people.

I think identifying as a particular gender or aligning with a specific descriptor is a jumping off or a starting place. Its a place that we can seek validation or understanding from like people. Its a start to understanding a shared experience. And perhaps a signal to the world that people engage their lives in such a wide array of ways.

So for me, its a descriptor that points me, incrementally, toward a general direction in understanding someone and in helping them to understand a facet of me.

[Toofrufru]

Labels of me are for other people. To me I am just me. I do not feel like a commodity to be bought or sold therefore I need no label. I try to identify with someone through my experience on a heart level. I am a conglomerate of all my life experiences if any of those should help another human feel "apart of" along the way, then both of lives are richer for having known each other.
On a side note I do have and am attracted to those with bootsbian tendency.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Toofrufru

Labels of me are for other people. To me I am just me. I do not feel like a commodity to be bought or sold therefore I need no label. I try to identify with someone through my experience on a heart level. I am a conglomerate of all my life experiences if any of those should help another human feel "apart of" along the way, then both of lives are richer for having known each other.
On a side note I do have and am attracted to those with bootsbian tendency.

"I am a conglomerate of all my life experiences."

Yes.

This is where I struggle with labels and identity politics. The sum of me is more than my label or gender identity or sexuality or age or ________ (fill in the blank).

"Labels of me are for other people."

Yes. And they are often used as much to count us out, as to count us in. When we label each other based on one set of parameters of an identity, we often cease listening, or valuing the experiences of others. In saying so, I don't remove myself from accountability - I know for certain I have done it. As a result, sometimes I prefer to not look for the labels we wear in these online forums, so that I can read the words of another without bringing that baggage with me - "of course she would say that, she's _________ (fill in the blank)."

[owen4u1904]

Originally Posted by Diva

When I first came out, my friends were trying to set me up with one who later became my partner for 8 years.....but when she first saw me, she leaned over to our mutual friend and said, "She's not a lesbian, she's somebody's Mother!"

She got it half right. I like that label, too......

I have evolved since then..... <smile> Though I'm still using the Mom Label.

~Diva

I like that one, after just now coming out I am still trying to figure out the whole clothes and labeling thing. I believe that you should not label yourself. You love who you love and at that is all. I would love to see people just go with feelings. I also do not like the idea that if you dress more "girly" you are considered femme. I dress in what I feel comfortable in, may it one day be a nice cute shirt and some nice pants or the next day a hoodie and baggy jeans. I am not trying to impress anyone with my looks, as long as I know I feel good about myself then I that is what I am most concerned about. And yes that whole mom label though is me, which is what I want people to see first and foremost.

[BullDog]

Originally Posted by WicketWWarrick

I feel similarly. I appreciate labels for a couple reasons. One, they give me a starting point. They don't map out the whole entity but I've got something to start with. Secondly, my identity allowed myself to find a community, to realize there is a name for someone like me. Butch doesn't box me in - it allows me to be free to be me.

I certainly don't think of my gender identity as a label. To quote someone from somewhere, labels are for soup cans.

I do agree with the Wicket- "Butch doesn't box me in - it allows me to be free to be me." And yes our identities is the major reason for how we all found each other here in this community in the first place.

[D-Money]

'femme' doesn't box me in ... it just doesn't fit. it's not who i am.

[suebee]

Originally Posted by D-Money

for you, Gin, this is truer than true! always has been

but it doesn't always work that way for all people ... people look at me in my feminine trappings, they may know that i am with a butch, and assume i am femme.

and they would be wrong.

i hear "of course you're femme! just look at you!"

grr ...

if i must be labeled, i already have one built in: donna

Hello Donna! I'm Sue

Originally Posted by Words

I think it goes even further than that. I would say, for a lot of people, who you are all comes down to not only who you fuck, but how you fuck.

For example, I'm a femme submissive. The assumption being - as far as many are concerned - that I'm some kind of pillow princess unable to adopt anything but a totally passive role in bed. Which of course, is absolute bullshit because as a submissive, my desire is to please, not to be pleased, including sexually. So although my Top definitely calls the shots, if you will, in bed, as elsewhere, if pleasing Hym requires my pretending to be a big, bad leather daddy and fucking Hym senseless until Hy begs for mercy (which it doesn't, but hey, it could), then that is what I will do.

Pillow princess? I don't think so. Not that I have anything against those who do ID that way but do you see where I'm coming from?

Words

I dunno Words. Ever since I saw those pictures of you in butch shorts...... Jus' sayin'!

Originally Posted by D-Money

'femme' doesn't box me in ... it just doesn't fit. it's not who i am.

This resonates with me. First off, since I spent twenty years living in French, the word "femme" just means "woman" to me. My gender, but not my sexual identity. But beyond that, it just doesn't seem to fit. If ever I come up with a descriptor I'm comfortable with, I'll use it. But really the point is that I simply don't feel the need to. Believe me, it would have been easier many, many times to simply say I was femme. But if you can't be true to yourself in describing your identity........ well?

I've been asked to justify my presence in the b-f community. I'm attracted to masculine women. Other than that, should I need to justify my presence? (and obviously I'm not talking about THIS site!)

Sue

[Jett]

Because I was questioned twice about my "identity" spot in the side profile. Not that I have to explain but maybe this will clear things up.

As I said earlier in the thread labels feel confining to me, not that they can limit me, I just no longer have the same desire to present myself as or label myself in such a "defined" way as I have in "Stone Butch" for about a decade and a half. Maybe it's because we change and grow over time, and moreso how we view things change sometimes more than who we are.

No matter what I label my "identity" here, I still can strip down and rebuild engines, roof a house and am a hardcore motorcycle lovin' jeans and tee, boot wearin' queer female who loves mimosas and a bubble bath, yep... all my life... label no label, doesn't change a damn thing.

Besides there's too much crap all over defining this and that and drawing perimeters and I don't like living under the shadows others cast, I define myself. If anyone cares to know more they'll ask how I "identify". I'm just everyday people (well, maybe not quite but...)

If it's all about the identity labels for some here and not getting to know people as individuals, I don't know what to say except sorry bout yer bad luck.

Hell... I was just a hardcore dirt bike tomboy crushing on girls growing up and now maybe I'm just a full grown hardass tomboy who's attracted to femmes (of which I have one of my very own ). Now there's a fucked up label... hmmm who knows... maybe I like that one... but really, who cares?

Again I see them as important, needed, useful, celebration worthy and necessary for some especially in this community... to each their own, who ever you are just be who you need to be, just that for me I feel like I've out lived some of the usefulness of mine for myself. I still feel as connected to this community as ever, because of my experience and my life today and future.

That is all,
Metropolis