Labels

[Tommi]

Originally Posted by Diva

When I first came out, my friends were trying to set me up with one who later became my partner for 8 years.....but when she first saw me, she leaned over to our mutual friend and said, "She's not a lesbian, she's somebody's Mother!"

She got it half right. I like that label, too......

I have evolved since then..... <smile> Though I'm still using the Mom Label.

~Diva

When I was foot loose and fancy free, I saw the Diva, and did not think of it in that manner.. Maybe Holy Mother of G....Phew..or whose the hot MAMA in town...well, just sayin...that Red Dress

yer lil Punkin

[Diva]

Originally Posted by Tommi

When I was foot loose and fancy free, I saw the Diva, and did not think of it in that manner.. Maybe Holy Mother of G....Phew..or whose the hot MAMA in town...well, just sayin...that Red Dress

yer lil Punkin

What a lovely compliment! Thank You so much, precious Punkin Head!


~Diva (LOVIN' that graphic! I stole it! <giggle> )

[Leigh]

Well you know what they say right?

Labels are for soup cans

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Jackhammer

Looking for a descriptor would be in kind a label, no? .... Yes ?

Originally Posted by BullDog

I certainly don't think of my gender identity as a label. To quote someone from somewhere, labels are for soup cans.

Originally Posted by Braedon

Well you know what they say right?

Labels are for soup cans

But why do soup cans have labels? We all know what a can of soup looks like, right? But it sure is handy to know what flavor (because personally, I'd be pretty pissed if I wanted chicken and stars and got split pea).

On the other hand, I'm not having a conversation with a can of soup where I can learn what it's got going on inside.

Which brings me back to Jack's very pertinent comment. Is a label different than a descriptor? If we describe a man as tall and hairy, is that his label? Seems like he's probably much more than tall/hairy.

One can appear butch (physical descriptor), but not be butch, so how does butch apply as a label? Just as D-Money says by appearance she is sometimes (often?) called "femme," but she says femme is not who/what she is.

Another way to approach it - how does label relate to identity? Personally, I agree with BullDog - I don't see my gender identity as a label.

[D-Money]

Originally Posted by Mister Bent

But why do soup cans have labels? We all know what a can of soup looks like, right? But it sure is handy to know what flavor (because personally, I'd be pretty pissed if I wanted chicken and stars and got split pea).

On the other hand, I'm not having a conversation with a can of soup where I can learn what it's got going on inside.

Which brings me back to Jack's very pertinent comment. Is a label different than a descriptor? If we describe a man as tall and hairy, is that his label? Seems like he's probably much more than tall/hairy.

One can appear butch (physical descriptor), but not be butch, so how does butch apply as a label? Just as D-Money says by appearance she is sometimes (often?) called "femme," but she says femme is not who/what she is.

Another way to approach it - how does label relate to identity? Personally, I agree with BullDog - I don't see my gender identity as a label.

you make some really good points ...

i think there is a definite difference between a label and a descriptor.

we can label someone "butch" ... or we can describe them as "manly", "masculine", etc.

we can label someone "femme" ... or we can describe them as "feminine", "girly", etc.

just because a queer woman is very feminine doesn't make her femme.

[BullDog]

Mister Bent I certainly agree with you. I don't find the term label to be meaningful at all. The only ways I have really ever heard it used is people asking me why I need a label or people saying they don't need a label. Well for me label has no useful meaning or connection to what my gender identity is. It simply doesn't apply.

I think of label as outside-in. People are making a determination/judgment and trying to define something/someone.

I think of gender identity as inside-out: it is something that is hard won that comes from within myself that gets presented out into the world- whether it be through presentation, finding community (like this site), like minded friends, lovers and partners that compliment my gender identity among other things, and of course the never ending journey of self discovery in all its various, multi-faceted forms. Label plays no part.

It is also very true that someone can look "butch" or look "femme" and not identify that way at all.

I also know that some people find gender identities like butch and femme to be constraining or to not adequately describe who they are. For me butch is not constraining. My personal meaning comes from within, it is not imposed from outside. However, for others butch and other gender identities might be constraining or limiting. I do understand and respect that. I just get bafffled when they equate that to having a label. I don't have a label.

[NJFemmie]

At one point, a label was something important to me - only because it seemed important for other people to categorize me. I could care less about labels now. I still use the femme label, but only for descriptive reasons. Other than that, I'm just me doing my own thing, and I am totally okay with that again.

It seemed that the label phenomenon was more of a burden. Now, I no longer feel confined or strapped to the perceptions of other people's stereotypes.

I respect everyone for who they are, no matter what they are or how they define themselves. I have always been the kind of woman who believes "be who you are and not who people expect you to be."

Thank you for listening.
<-- minus the angry rant

[ZoeyJayne]

I got sick of being told that I am this or that.. I just made it wicked easy on everyone i am a desbian... (desiree + lesbian=) I am not changing for anyone or explaining myself for anyone for that matter. Take me or leave me :P

[Gemme]

If we're being very precise, I identify as a Queer Stone Femme Girl. There is an abundant amount of people in this world, in our community and not, that have no idea what that means or even what the individual markers mean to me. Some days I have the patience and desire to educate and some days I don't.

I like labels. They are useful tools, but, like any other tool, they can be used for good and for evil. The value lies within the beholder, I believe.

[Boots13]

Originally Posted by ZoeyJayne

...i am a desbian... (desiree + lesbian=) :P

hmmm, guess this makes me a bootsbian...I'm ok with that!

I dont live my "mainstream" life consistently vocally pushing my sexual, political, moral, or religious identity...well, not as a general practice.
So, while I'm socializing in queer circles how useful is it to know that I id as Butch? I'm partnered, I'm not dating or searching for my "other".
While socializing in hetero circles, how important is it to let people know I id as Butch? While cultivating my career, how important is it to identify to my employer as Butch?

I am searching for kindness, like-hearted people. People who serve their greater community in some capacity. People who care about other people.

I think identifying as a particular gender or aligning with a specific descriptor is a jumping off or a starting place. Its a place that we can seek validation or understanding from like people. Its a start to understanding a shared experience. And perhaps a signal to the world that people engage their lives in such a wide array of ways.

So for me, its a descriptor that points me, incrementally, toward a general direction in understanding someone and in helping them to understand a facet of me.

[Toofrufru]

Labels of me are for other people. To me I am just me. I do not feel like a commodity to be bought or sold therefore I need no label. I try to identify with someone through my experience on a heart level. I am a conglomerate of all my life experiences if any of those should help another human feel "apart of" along the way, then both of lives are richer for having known each other.
On a side note I do have and am attracted to those with bootsbian tendency.

[Mister Bent]

Originally Posted by Toofrufru

Labels of me are for other people. To me I am just me. I do not feel like a commodity to be bought or sold therefore I need no label. I try to identify with someone through my experience on a heart level. I am a conglomerate of all my life experiences if any of those should help another human feel "apart of" along the way, then both of lives are richer for having known each other.
On a side note I do have and am attracted to those with bootsbian tendency.

"I am a conglomerate of all my life experiences."

Yes.

This is where I struggle with labels and identity politics. The sum of me is more than my label or gender identity or sexuality or age or ________ (fill in the blank).

"Labels of me are for other people."

Yes. And they are often used as much to count us out, as to count us in. When we label each other based on one set of parameters of an identity, we often cease listening, or valuing the experiences of others. In saying so, I don't remove myself from accountability - I know for certain I have done it. As a result, sometimes I prefer to not look for the labels we wear in these online forums, so that I can read the words of another without bringing that baggage with me - "of course she would say that, she's _________ (fill in the blank)."

[Jess]

Perhaps it is personal evolution or perhaps it is just getting older that brings me to where I feel I have come full circle, regarding "labels, identifiers, rainbow badge of courage" . The "learning the rules" so I can then forget them, so to speak.

When I first learned about using the web to network and reach out of my sense of isolation ( feelings of being misunderstood or having no intimately familiar community in "real time" ) , I also learned of ALL of the different words used to describe the different facets of people. This was especially difficult to navigate within "gender choice positive" communities such as the butch-femme welcoming sites.

I was no longer just a dyke. I was no longer just a lesbian. No longer just a freak who liked S/m. I found a whole brand spanking new set of "words" that helped me describe not only who I am, but what I like, am attracted to, want to spend energy being near. I found the words that for me, helped describe both physical and some mental/ emotional/ sexual and social attributes and I took them on more as a way to find "like minded" individuals than as necessarily a box I wanted to stay in.

I chose the nic SyrJess as a way to say " I am a masculine female Top" , because at that time, it was important for me in my seeking others within both gender choice positive space and BDSMers to form community with. I always used Syr to mark the difference between being a masculine woman and an FTM. It worked for me for years.

As I have grown older and hopefully wiser, I no longer feel that same "driven" desire to adamantly express "who I am" and the need to be seen as valued for my "labels". Yes, I'm still a big ole butt spanking butch, however today there is only one butt I want to spank and she knows I am "butch" so I don't feel a need to "advertise" any longer... LOL.

Do I want to be "seen" and/or valued for being Butch/ Top/ Stone/ masculine/ female ? Absolutely. I feel today however, it is more important for me to be valued by ME first. "Me".. free of labels and qualifiers/ identifiers. I am learning to be the sum of all those parts and not just a fraction of them.

It has been and I am sure will continue to be, a " very strange trip" indeed.

[christie]

Originally Posted by Jess

Perhaps it is personal evolution or perhaps it is just getting older that brings me to where I feel I have come full circle, regarding "labels, identifiers, rainbow badge of courage" . The "learning the rules" so I can then forget them, so to speak.

When I first learned about using the web to network and reach out of my sense of isolation ( feelings of being misunderstood or having no intimately familiar community in "real time" ) , I also learned of ALL of the different words used to describe the different facets of people. This was especially difficult to navigate within "gender choice positive" communities such as the butch-femme welcoming sites.

I was no longer just a dyke. I was no longer just a lesbian. No longer just a freak who liked S/m. I found a whole brand spanking new set of "words" that helped me describe not only who I am, but what I like, am attracted to, want to spend energy being near. I found the words that for me, helped describe both physical and some mental/ emotional/ sexual and social attributes and I took them on more as a way to find "like minded" individuals than as necessarily a box I wanted to stay in.

I chose the nic SyrJess as a way to say " I am a masculine female Top" , because at that time, it was important for me in my seeking others within both gender choice positive space and BDSMers to form community with. I always used Syr to mark the difference between being a masculine woman and an FTM. It worked for me for years.

As I have grown older and hopefully wiser, I no longer feel that same "driven" desire to adamantly express "who I am" and the need to be seen as valued for my "labels". Yes, I'm still a big ole butt spanking butch, however today there is only one butt I want to spank and she knows I am "butch" so I don't feel a need to "advertise" any longer... LOL.

Do I want to be "seen" and/or valued for being Butch/ Top/ Stone/ masculine/ female ? Absolutely. I feel today however, it is more important for me to be valued by ME first. "Me".. free of labels and qualifiers/ identifiers. I am learning to be the sum of all those parts and not just a fraction of them.

It has been and I am sure will continue to be, a " very strange trip" indeed.

Its been an amazing transformation - and I am humbled to stand beside you as you have moved through this part of your evolution and to see you love you as I have been so blessed to do.

Change is not easy, especially for ole . Its downright scary. It takes so much courage to walk the road you've been on and I am so very proud to be your wife.

Sorry for the derail, folks. I just couldn't let this pass without acknowledging.
Back to your regularly scheduled program!